What units do you feel are missing in the game?

[FoxFox]

I really love the unit roster in this game. Conceptually it feels very well-balanced (i.e. it covers a lot of historical ground, not talking about game balance) and thought through. Still there are some iconic unit types I feel that are missing. I'll list some here. I'm curious to know what units you would like to see in the game and especially how they would fit in.

- Late game cavalry, e.g. Hussars. Right now Polish Lancers and French Cuirassiers feel like archaic holdouts in a modernising world. But in reality these units were just the prime examples of their time, and had counterparts in many other nations.

- Early game skirmishers. Many iconic units like Roman legions and Greek hoplites had light support units armed with javelins and slings. Archers too, but it took some time before bows became decisively more efficient than other ranged weapons. For gameplay purposes, skirmishers could fill the role of later saboteurs/partisans.

- Dedicated light cavalry, especially in the early game. Maybe they could have a special bonus against early ranged units, a special flanking bonus or a bonus against the non-existtent skirmishers. And while horse archers were something of a specialty, light cavalry skirmishers armed with javelins were much more common.

- Submarines: The Germans have U-boats (I would have preferred tanks btw) which in my mind are improved submarines. But there are no generic submarines, except for the nuclear subs which are a different league altogether.

- Privateers: These were scrapped from the game. I like the idea, though their role would be mainly to attack merchant ships to disrupt trade/supply routes, which is not how the game works right now. But the same could be said for U-boats and these still made the cut.

- Galleons: I don't really have a strong opinion on these tbh, but the game actually mentions that Carracks are the blueprint for later Galleons. I guess "later" here does not mean "tech tree later" but "DLC later" then...

- Ancient era (or even Neolithic) naval transports. Maybe not for military units but for nomads/scouts only. I mean how did Stonehenge ever get built if people weren't even able to settle in Britain in the first place? And how did the Phoenicians manage to found all those trade posts around the Mediterranean?

[Aluminum Elite Master]

The only one of these I might agree on is that there should be earlier naval transports. Even on continent-style maps, sometimes a start location is pressed between the sea and other players... but only if I could cross the one or two tile gap to the large island territory just off shore. Maybe a transport where even in coastal waters 10% damage occurs until the unit is back on land or something.

The rest of the units mentioned would be decent additions but aren't all that vital... currently, all the late-game stuff mentioned here is stuff I'd probably build 5% of the time, as it's way easier to just keep spamming science and zoom to the end of the tech tree by that time. By the time many of these units are mentioned (aside from the earlier light cav and ranged), I've already done plenty of expanding and would only build those units in the rare event I still get DoW'ed at that point.

Finally, there IS late game cav... they just happen to be tanks at that point. I know they aren't literally cav units, but they fill the same function really.

[mk11]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

I mean how did Stonehenge ever get built if people weren't even able to settle in Britain in the first place?

They walked from the Netherlands! Doggerland, disappeared about 6500BCE.

Could do with those rafts and canoes that the Polynesians, Easter Islanders, etc used

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

The rest of the units mentioned would be decent additions but aren't all that vital... currently, all the late-game stuff mentioned here is stuff I'd probably build 5% of the time, as it's way easier to just keep spamming science and zoom to the end of the tech tree by that time. By the time many of these units are mentioned (aside from the earlier light cav and ranged), I've already done plenty of expanding and would only build those units in the rare event I still get DoW'ed at that point.

Can't say I disagree there. As much I love the unit roster in theory, I finish most games without ever building a good deal of the units as it is. So my first concern would be balance fixes to ensure that the current units see sufficient use.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by mk11:

Originally posted by FoxFox:

I mean how did Stonehenge ever get built if people weren't even able to settle in Britain in the first place?

They walked from the Netherlands! Doggerland, disappeared about 6500BCE.

Could do with those rafts and canoes that the Polynesians, Easter Islanders, etc used

Well, I wouldn't mind if they found a way to incorporate disappearing land bridges in the game either!

I really hope Polynesians or some subgroup get added through DLC/mods at some point btw.

[PenguinO]

Too few aircraft types

Biplane exists
WW1 bomber NOT EXIST
Fighter exists
Dual-engine heavy fighter NOT EXIST
Dive bomber NOT EXIST
Torpedo bomber NOT EXIST
Level bomber light/medium NOT EXIST
Level bomber exists but just one for all nation

Too few war ship classes

Destroyer NOT EXIST
Light cruiser NOT EXIST
Heavy cruiser NOT EXIST but Missile cruiser at near end game
Battleship exists
Carrier exists
Submarine only U-Boat and Nuke sub at near end game

Too few tanks

Too few cultures that have elephant unit

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by PenguinO:

Too few cultures that have elephant unit

Especially curious about this one. I don't know much about elephant warfare. Which cultures/units do you have in mind?

[Dorok]

Late game cavalry:
There's already many, the game doesn't need more. There's even already a generic unit for that. For late late game cavalry there's copters, that are in direct line and allow upgrade from cavalry, but yeah tanks sort of too.

Privateers:
This is a full game by itself or it needs find a smart designs. It seem trade roads gameplay was tuned down heavily to avoid a gameplay part too heavy in micromanagement. For a HK 2 and with having a global map trades view in direct access and better shown/managed than now through diplomacy.

Ancient era (or even Neolithic) naval transports:
With inability to cross more than one deep sea hexagon then. the reason is ensure delay access to islands and outer lands. The map generation would be too much constrained otherwise. And at reverse allows quick large sea travels is premature, even if more realist compared to real history. It would be a rush to navigation.

I would say, no transports but some sooner ships are ok, but also without a way to abuse of indies to "land" on a continent where you never landed. This would figure light long sailing that never ended in invasion from outer continent, you can discover but not yet start the empire across the seas.

Light cavalry, skirmishers, the first are already used in old era, but then later replaced by heavier cavalry, I don't know. For skirmishers as you quote the class appears in later eras, they sort of replace close range/long range there was in older era, I don't know either.

I'm a bit dry on suggestions, I feel that even if the diversity in each era is limited past emblematic units, a part of the diversity is spread through era and it's a good approach.

Where I would want a review is for naval battles, I don't get why they are so simplified. Im' fine with the idea to make them lighter and faster than land battles, but it seems a lot too much simplified. what's the link with units? The link is there's like 2 ships, torpedo and cannon, for late Aircraft Carrier it's another matter. This simplification seems not proper.

On start ships should not have such surrealistic maneuverability, and with something much more limited, the systems needs give sense to heavier ship with more long range fire power, and lighter ships with more maneuverability, and ships more dedicated to naval boarding, ships blocking path, ships with zone of control or not, ships long range that couldn't fire above some ship. Eventually that's too many ideas and only some could improve a lot ship battles, this leading to add a unit or two, and it can be different along eras.

[DNLH]

I'd like 'gaps' in the troop tree to be filled first, generic ranged and anti-cav for Classical era and then maybe a bridge between Knight and Dragoon in Early Modern, although Knights can still hold early on and Dragoons come quick enough after that, so it's not a must-have.

What I'd love to see added is Heavy Ships becoming a thing earlier, maybe even as early as Ancient/Classical, and make them capable of bombarding attack (with limited range at first, of course). That would buff navy a lot, but I also believe it would make it a worth investment, either to bombard your enemy on your own, or to counter enemy fleet.

Some sort of intermediate between Torpedo Boats and Nuclear Subs would also be appreciated, but I'm not sure about it, mainly because I don't really build the former and the latter I only sometimes create a single fleet of, mainly for flavour reasons, not because I actually have any use for it (although they have superior speed, so they may be useful to chase down a fleet that does not want to engage your main navy).

[Dorok]

Originally posted by DNLH:

What I'd love to see added is Heavy Ships becoming a thing earlier, maybe even as early as Ancient/Classical, and make them capable of bombarding attack (with limited range at first, of course).

A recent change added the ability to attack a town with ships only, it was with later ships but I don't see why it would not work with older ships. For capturing the town it was a bit weird, to ensure a long range defender enter in ships vision, I had to move back all ships so the last defender move in range and in vision of ships, then kill the last defender and capture the town.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by DNLH:

I'd like 'gaps' in the troop tree to be filled first, generic ranged and anti-cav for Classical era and then maybe a bridge between Knight and Dragoon in Early Modern, although Knights can still hold early on and Dragoons come quick enough after that, so it's not a must-have.

I feel Hussars would fit the bill, with Polish Winged Lancers as a special type (which is what they were)

Originally posted by DNLH:

Some sort of intermediate between Torpedo Boats and Nuclear Subs would also be appreciated, but I'm not sure about it, mainly because I don't really build the former and the latter I only sometimes create a single fleet of, mainly for flavour reasons, not because I actually have any use for it (although they have superior speed, so they may be useful to chase down a fleet that does not want to engage your main navy).

Yeah, I built Torpedo Boats exactly once, just because I wanted to see them. I feel generic WW1-WW2 era subs are missing from the roster, but in practice I don't see them getting any use right now.

That's something I see with a lot of the ideas in the game, sadly. The concepts seem really well thought out, but then the gameplay doesn't fully unlock all that potential...

[yutterh]

Was thinking about how to add skirmishes and we already have some as unique units. The olmycs have javelin throwers and the maya have javiline throwers, which are basically skirmishes. I feel they should unlock with archers. Maybe have it so they do more damage and maintain 75% of their combat strength in melee instead of 50%, maybe have them be able to attack and move. This way the olmecs and maya also don't lose their archers. We also need a classical era archer as well, something in between archer and crossbow men.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by yutterh:

Was thinking about how to add skirmishes and we already have some as unique units. The olmycs have javelin throwers and the maya have javiline throwers, which are basically skirmishes. I feel they should unlock with archers. Maybe have it so they do more damage and maintain 75% of their combat strength in melee instead of 50%, maybe have them be able to attack and move. This way the olmecs and maya also don't lose their archers. We also need a classical era archer as well, something in between archer and crossbow men.

Yeah, I really feel that the importance of skirmishers in ancient/classical conflicts is undervalued.

You could also consider replacing archers with skirmishers and then moving archer to the classical era. Or as you say, inserting a second archer for the classical era to represent how bows became the weapon of choice as technology improved.

[yutterh]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Originally posted by yutterh:

Was thinking about how to add skirmishes and we already have some as unique units. The olmycs have javelin throwers and the maya have javiline throwers, which are basically skirmishes. I feel they should unlock with archers. Maybe have it so they do more damage and maintain 75% of their combat strength in melee instead of 50%, maybe have them be able to attack and move. This way the olmecs and maya also don't lose their archers. We also need a classical era archer as well, something in between archer and crossbow men.

Yeah, I really feel that the importance of skirmishers in ancient/classical conflicts is undervalued.

You could also consider replacing archers with skirmishers and then moving archer to the classical era. Or as you say, inserting a second archer for the classical era to represent how bows became the weapon of choice as technology improved.

I was thinking the same thing but then the nubians might be a little op as they would get archers a full era earlier then any others.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by yutterh:

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Yeah, I really feel that the importance of skirmishers in ancient/classical conflicts is undervalued.

You could also consider replacing archers with skirmishers and then moving archer to the classical era. Or as you say, inserting a second archer for the classical era to represent how bows became the weapon of choice as technology improved.

I was thinking the same thing but then the nubians might be a little op as they would get archers a full era earlier then any others.

Good point. Inserting a second archer is also a problem with the Nubians maybe. If I'm not mistaken the region was still famed for its archers in early Medieval times.

[yutterh]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Originally posted by yutterh:

I was thinking the same thing but then the nubians might be a little op as they would get archers a full era earlier then any others.

Good point. Inserting a second archer is also a problem with the Nubians maybe. If I'm not mistaken the region was still famed for its archers in early Medieval times.

Huh, didn't think about the nubians keeping their archers into the classical era. Yeah, it would be a nerf to them. Maybe have the archers come later in the ancient era, I don't know. Well either way skirmishes would be a great side unit besides archers. Maybe have them gain defense from archers or something lol so they would be a good counter to archer spam.