So. That Surrogate Vulture, eh?

[Slug Camargo]

What a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ of a boss.

I'm roaming about in NG+ and I decided to pay him a visit after the Mothers because why not, and I guess I'm still underlevelled because I can't survive his second phase. His spawning ghosts during what used to be a relatively safe time to deal some damage is really pushing it.

SO! how do you people dealt with the ghosts?

I managed to work around every other of the Vulture's moves, but these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (specifically the ones that pop up three at a time at ground level, and have two different attacks; and then they pop up two at a time during the Vulture's slow walk cycle) can turn the entire fight upside down for me because I can't make sense of what the ♥♥♥♥ they're all about and all of a sudden I'm down to 1hp or flat out dead without knowing what hit me.

My best guess is that they try to spawn on top of me, so I guess I should be moving around all the time? I don't know, sometimes that seems to work, sometimes not. I feel their behaviour is borderline random, and their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ transparency on top of all the visual FX and crap flying around makes it way too hard to see what they're doing (at times, even see where the hell they are).

I've watched a few videos, but people either have gigantic health bars and just tank them, or they rush the boss with such insanely high-damage stats that they cheese the entire fight down to a few minutes.

I want a proper strategy. I want to understand these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ so I can deal with them even with a level 1 character.

[Bellkatze]

The "ground" ghost will immediately start its attack when spawning on or near you.

It's either a punch down on you, sending shockwaves left and right.
A swipe with one wing.
Or a charge at you. This attack spawns slightly away from you.

Your best bet is probably to dodge out of the way immediatly.
Or that's how I deal with them. Genuinely no idea if they can be parried.
The Vulture itself isn't doing much when they attack anyway. Either standing around and, I assume, summoning them. Or RP walking at you.

[sethkane]

I parried the ghosts, they took me by surprise first time too. Free healing depending on your build. I luckily only died once to Surrogate Vulture so I can't comment much on overall strategy other than all his openings are still there from NG with mainly the lightning and the slow walk ghosts being new for NG+.

[Lizard Ears]

Surrogate Vulture was probably my favorite fight in NG, but NG+ kind of ruined it. My best bet for when the phantom vultures come during the slow walk phase is to just mash the dash button. It is the only thing that has remotely worked for me.

[Elymnir]

The ghosts were my biggest gripe with this bossfight as well. They have a strange timing where some don't attack right when they appear but others do.
Since dodging always ended up with me taking the next hit, I just died repeatedly to the ghost attacks (the three-fold and the slow walk one) until I get the timing right to parry them all. The trait that lets you regain health after parrying helped me with a ton of bosses.

On another note, ng+ Fidus made me quit the game. While vulture surrogate was hard, once I got accustomed to every pattern, the fight became enjoyable. However, Fidus has one attack that gets me everytime, it's this little charge it does before spinning its sword. Not only it's fast, but it's also kinda impredictible. But during my 3rd try, he did the little charge and oneshotted me, even though I had 90% of my health (I had 15 in vitality). At that moment I said to myself "okay, lol, nope" and uninstalled the game.

[gereforte]

Originally posted by Elymnir:

The ghosts were my biggest gripe with this bossfight as well. They have a strange timing where some don't attack right when they appear but others do.
Since dodging always ended up with me taking the next hit, I just died repeatedly to the ghost attacks (the three-fold and the slow walk one) until I get the timing right to parry them all. The trait that lets you regain health after parrying helped me with a ton of bosses.

On another note, ng+ Fidus made me quit the game. While vulture surrogate was hard, once I got accustomed to every pattern, the fight became enjoyable. However, Fidus has one attack that gets me everytime, it's this little charge it does before spinning its sword. Not only it's fast, but it's also kinda impredictible. But during my 3rd try, he did the little charge and oneshotted me, even though I had 90% of my health (I had 15 in vitality). At that moment I said to myself "okay, lol, nope" and uninstalled the game.

15 vitality in ng+? respec!

[Slug Camargo]

Originally posted by Elymnir:

Since dodging always ended up with me taking the next hit, I just died repeatedly to the ghost attacks (the three-fold and the slow walk one) until I get the timing right to parry them all.

It never occurred to me that you could parry them. I did beat the fight eventually, but I'm not entirely happy about how it came about. I might give it another go and see whether parrying these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ makes more sense.

Originally posted by Elymnir:

On another note, ng+ Fidus made me quit the game. While vulture surrogate was hard, once I got accustomed to every pattern, the fight became enjoyable. However, Fidus has one attack that gets me everytime, it's this little charge it does before spinning its sword. Not only it's fast, but it's also kinda impredictible. But during my 3rd try, he did the little charge and oneshotted me, even though I had 90% of my health (I had 15 in vitality). At that moment I said to myself "okay, lol, nope" and uninstalled the game.

That's kinda worrying.

Last night I did regular Vulture. It was doable, but I absolutely hated that new thing were dead worms leave a permanent acid stain. Unwalkable arenas already is the kind of lazy-ass artificial difficulty nonsense that puts most Dark Souls 2's bosses at the absolute lowest tier for me, and any game that pulls that ♥♥♥♥ instantly loses a bunch of points in my book. But making the obstacles be both dynamic at spawning and permanent throughout the entire fight is beyond ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

So yeah, my initial excitement about NG+ is cooling down worryingly. So far I did 4 bosses, 2 of them I did not enjoy fighting, and all of them felt like they had extra difficulty spikes tacked on without really giving a lot of thought. The original flow of the fights felt more or less ruined in every case, and that seems to be more and more noticeable the further I get into the game.

[Elymnir]

Originally posted by Slug Camargo:

Last night I did regular Vulture. It was doable, but I absolutely hated that new thing were dead worms leave a permanent acid stain. Unwalkable arenas already is the kind of lazy-ass artificial difficulty nonsense that puts most Dark Souls 2's bosses at the absolute lowest tier for me, and any game that pulls that ♥♥♥♥ instantly loses a bunch of points in my book. But making the obstacles be both dynamic at spawning and permanent throughout the entire fight is beyond ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

That's an opinion I share (I'm looking at you, Mohg phase 2 in Elden Ring), but I do think NG+ Vulture handles this correctly. Since the Vulture itself isn't too agressive, what I did was lure the worms to one side of the arena and killed them all there, one by one, so that their marks all fall at the same spot.

However, similar to the acid stains, I didn't enjoy the fact that both ends of the arena are covered with some sort of damaging ground. Mostly because the Vulture would always stand in them and I was like: "Sooo... ya gonna come out or what?".

At least with the worms, you can choose where the stain lands. It's still a pain, but you can influence the outcome and THAT, player agency, is good design in my opinion.

[Lizard Ears]

NG+ Vulture sucks. Probably has the worst change, only other contenders are Shapely Fidus and Surrogate Vulture. It seems as though the devs just spent all there effort on Amalgam, as it actually feels like a brand new fight, while all the others are the same fights with added bs.

[Slug Camargo]

Originally posted by Elymnir:

At least with the worms, you can choose where the stain lands. It's still a pain, but you can influence the outcome and THAT, player agency, is good design in my opinion.

Yeah. I'll admit that at some point I appreciated that, but every now and then, just because of the way the fight flows, one stain would end up in the wrong place and that alone would risk throwing the entire attempt out. There might be a good mechanic behind this idea, but I'm not sure it was properly implemented in this case - probably because it was tacked on long after the fight had been properly designed.

Like you say, it probably doesn't help that the arena is already way too small to begin with, with those lava rocks on both ends.

Originally posted by Mr. McMarky:

NG+ Vulture sucks. Probably has the worst change, only other contenders are Shapely Fidus and Surrogate Vulture.

OK, this is the third time I read about Fidus being on the same level of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and it's getting worrying

Originally posted by Mr. McMarky:

It seems as though the devs just spent all there effort on Amalgam, as it actually feels like a brand new fight, while all the others are the same fights with added bs.

I've been under the same impression so far. Amalgam's new moves are so well implemented that you'd be forgiven for not realizing exactly what's new and what was already there. The other bosses I tried so far all have these over-the-top new moves that stick out like a sore thumb.

[sethkane]

I thought Shapely was really well done, a few modifiers to change up where you can punish and a mildly hilarious final phase.
I wasn't a fan of Vulture initially as I got killed by the worm hazards way too often but it does force you to either control where they die or make use of your movement skills.
I liked all the NG+ boss movesets over all, however, when they were near perfect already the extra stuff added will either work for you or annoy you.
The bonus boss...I didn't like at all; there's too much visual noise on screen and it becomes a chore.

[Slug Camargo]

Originally posted by Elymnir:

Fidus has one attack that gets me everytime, it's this little charge it does before spinning its sword. Not only it's fast, but it's also kinda impredictible. But during my 3rd try, he did the little charge and oneshotted me, even though I had 90% of my health (I had 15 in vitality). At that moment I said to myself "okay, lol, nope" and uninstalled the game.

Originally posted by sethkane:

I thought Shapely was really well done, a few modifiers to change up where you can punish and a mildly hilarious final phase.

Well, in the end I'll have to agree with sethkane here. After fearing it so much, Fidus went down rather easily in just a few tries. I did manage to learn the fight properly and I even enjoyed it.

Hell, all the time I was mindful of Elymnir's comment regarding that new charge attack, and I'm not sure I even realized which one it was. This was, in fact, another boss where I found the new patterns so well merged with the old ones that nothing sticks out too much (with the exception of that frankly ridiculous post-last phase, granted).

ALSO! Am I right in thinking that NG+ Fidus is an optional boss? You're not getting an ability, and the access to the next area is elsewhere entirely. In fact, it would seem as though the entire Carven Palace can be skipped.

[Elymnir]

@Slug Camargo Glad it went well for you, for my part I just couldn't adapt ^^

And I believe you can finish NG+ by only fighting Vulture, Final Performance and Shidra.

[kalirion]

IIRC parrying the ghosts is the way I killed NG+ Vulture. I couldn't figure out any other way to deal it damage, and parrying is my preferred way of dealing damage to bosses anyway (near-maxed Attuning Lantern FTW).

[Slug Camargo]

Originally posted by kalirion:

IIRC parrying the ghosts is the way I killed NG+ Vulture.

I'm gonna have to replay that fight and try parrying them. I don't know why that never occurred to me. I also rely heavily on absorb/repel especially for bosses.

Originally posted by kalirion:

near-maxed Attuning Lantern FTW

What does that one do? I don't think I've ever used it.

[kalirion]

Originally posted by Slug Camargo:

I'm gonna have to replay that fight and try parrying them. I don't know why that never occurred to me. I also rely heavily on absorb/repel especially for bosses.

Originally posted by kalirion:

near-maxed Attuning Lantern FTW

What does that one do? I don't think I've ever used it.

Oh, use it especially if you rely on repel (and dash-ghost damage for unrepellable attacks)!

Every stack that you put on the enemy with the Lantern increases the damage they take from Resonance-powered skills and attacks, which includes both the Ancient Limb and Skewer skills for parry + dash ghost damage. And leveling up the lantern passively increases your Resonance stat while you're wielding it, if I understand how that works properly (even without putting stacks on the enemy, compare parry damage of a while wielding a somewhat leveled lantern vs while using another weapon).