(Update 7) Patches & Feedback discussion

[Yarden]

Update 7 -

Colors of Rot - Free DLC is out

Your feedback was crucial in guiding us towards the creation of CoR. A massive free DLC that does more than just add new content. It is our thanks to our players and to everyone that gave of their time to offer criticism.

I would like to share with you precisely how your feedback made CoR better.

--- Beginning of CoR ---

Every game normally has cut content, plans that were too ambitious to reach within time or budget. And it is only with the support of the community that a game can get the opportunity to edge closer to that original vision. CoR starts with the addition of a new, but originally planned area, Childbed. Home to an entity central to the world and some of the conflict within it.

--- Backtracking ---

Other than adding new NPC interactions & lore to the game, weapons, enemies, traits & bosses, CoR is an opportunity to expand and rebalance the world in meaningful ways which address some of the issues players had while exploring it; 1. There not being enough abilities that alter the speed in which you can traverse areas, similar to Hollow Knight's Crystal Dash, making treading the same grounds far more tedious. 2. There being little reason to re-traverse previously visited areas, making backtracking to reach Fast Travel points and locations feeling more like a waste of time.

For 1. a new Sprint Dash ability can be gained in the early to mid-game, allowing you to maneuver through areas faster, open up new platforming challenges and combat possibilities (the sprint deals contact damage, which can interrupt weaker enemies and destroy obstacles). For 2. existing areas now have additional optional challenges added that can only be reached with new abilities and reward backtracking, giving more value to traversing previous areas.
In addition to working on improving on those two issues, there are now more options in how and what order players can explore the world. So there is less need to use the same path to reach a location, as the new Childbed area now connects multiple other areas together.

--- Exploration ---

One popular criticism has been aimed at our map system, which was mostly inspired by Hollow Knight’s. Each new area you enter requires you to find a Beacon to activate, after which your location is tracked in said area. Beacons can generally be found about halfway into an area, giving players some time to experience “fumbling in the dark” before stumbling into a trail of particles which will help guide them towards the Beacon. However, for some this period of time without a map proved too frustrating and confusing to progress. Searching for a middling compromise I looked to the map system in Code Vein. In many ways the mapping system in Code Vein shares a lot of similarities to HK’s and our own as well. But one major difference is that a dotted line marks where you have previously walked without revealing the actual map. This small change proved to make a major difference for players that previously gave up due to getting lost, while still maintaining the value and satisfaction gained from exploring without a map and discovering a Beacon.

Another popular criticism was regarding the ability to teleport in between checkpoints being obtainable only at the very end of the game. It was originally placed there to make NG+ easier to traverse, but as the game does not yet have an NG+ mode (our next major DLC), the decision ended up making little sense other than to obtain all of the achievements at the end of the game for those looking to platinum it.

The ability to Fast Travel was moved from the final boss (which now instead allows players to fight endgame variations of previously defeated bosses), and to a new, optional boss. This boss can be discovered anywhere from mid to late game, rewarding at the earliest those most ambitious adventurers, who intentionally stray off of the beaten path to take on challenges that are clearly beyond their levels. In this way exploration remains constantly rewarding and in a variety of ways. With overcoming difficult challenges early resulting in greater rewards.

Lastly, as this applies to both combat as well as exploration, a new creature has been added- Runners. These creatures teleport around, leading you through secret passages, and after finding their last hiding spot grant you an item that serves as a healing flask. You don't get a lot these and Breath remains you main method of healing, but it is there to provide some small relief in combat, encouraging you to go for those parries with less fear of death, while also farther rewarding exploration.

--- Platforming ---

Another issue some players who came for the combat had was with platforming becoming less optional as the game goes on. For this, other than tightening all challenges to avoid frustrating "clutch" jumps and challenges, there is now an optional Glide ability which can be discovered. As with all abilities, this not only provides some relief from mandatory platforming challenges, but also opens up new, optional platforming challenges AND, of course, can also be used in combat to great effect.

While platforming is still a popular sticking point for players that came to GRIME more for the combat, it is still a fundamental part of the game and not one that could be easily removed. My core philosophy was at least to delegate the majority of relatively difficult platforming challenges to be completely optional. However, in a fully seamless game without any "rooms", there is some difficulty with clarifying to the player that a challenge is purely optional. This is something I'll have to try to figure out in the future, but am generally open to ideas.

--- Parry & Combat ---

CoR focuses on giving players more options to find an engaging playstyle and play in the way they want to. Other than making the highly requested change which allows you to now be able to equip & test weapon movesets while below their stat requirement (for a severe damage penalty) in order to have a better understand of what you are investing towards. We have also added new weapons entirely unique weapons that give more options for ranged gameplay, poison, heal focused (gaining more healing from enemies) and more.

Enemies in the late areas of the game have also been made to be much more susceptible to parries to maintain it's value as a damage and health resource. But you may need to work harder to earn those parries due to some new mechanics.

As a final note, anyone who purchased our soundtracks our ambiences on Steam will get the new DLC tracks added for free as well. :)

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, hope to hear any and all harsh criticisms! Even if we can't apply them to GRIME... Perhaps one day it may hopefully help with a new project...



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Update 6 -

Patch 1.1.12 is out!

This patch adds the Respec option, unstoppable (hyper armor) attacks for very slow weapons, and on the technical side of things- you should no longer encounter "Sticky walls" and after falling or getting hit by traps you will reappear much closer to the last safe spot.

Overall, players should have a much smoother technical experience.

The current plan is by the time we get to patch 1.2 to have:

- NG+ where you keep everything (items, weapons, stats, traits etc...) but lose all boss abilities with the exception of Warp.

- Armor stats that can be combined with whatever visual you like most. Providing some additional gameplay customizability.

- Eliminate all significant common technical issues.


And finally, to show our appreciation, this patch also adds to the game's credits the names of notable community beta patch testers and persistent bug reporters.


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Update 5 - Patch 1.0.6.7 is out!
This patch adds another Fast-travel point to a distant, late-game area. And changes an existing Fast-travel point to be far more accessible.
In addition, this patch removes the last of the missed missables from the game, including the "Generous" achievement, and some Hunt Points.
Finally, this patch should address some of the... strange ladders platforms interactions some of you may have experienced.

Plans for the next Patch/s:

- Top priority for the next will be to include the respec system.

- A stuttering on loading areas that some players have experienced despite having powerful hardware.

- Armor stats are "potentially" coming. Going to begin working on it and see how it goes the week following the respec patch . Don't worry fashion players, the system will let you combine whichever stat with each ever visual you want.

- NG+ is and has always been a plan, actually, the final boos ability was made specifically with NG+ in mind. But we'll be able to focus more on that once we feel comfortable that we can space out our patches a bit more.



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Update 4 - Plans for the next Patch/s:

- I'll start working on figuring out the exact mechanics and UI of how we should implement respecing.

- Planning out how and when we can begin implementing NG+.

- Still looking to address the issue of being unable to comfortably upgrade weapons or build up ardor when in Cenotaph City.
This may either be resolved with a new NPC or a hidden Nervepass.

- Looking for ways of encouraging players to put a point or two in one of the Force replenishing traits (Frail arm/Clawhound), as they are a relatively integral element to Force balancing.
Same for Piercer Trait, which is possibly one of the most powerful traits in the game, and allows players the ability to gain Breath from Bosses they otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

- Experimenting with Poise on Slow/Very slow Specials or attacks.

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Update 3 - Plans for the next patch/s!

* So outside of the regular bug fixing, the next item on the list are missables:
- Lithic trader will remain available... somewhere.
- All Hunt Point enemies will get a hidden, respawning version that you could eventually try to absorb if you destroyed them without doing so at the time.
- The optional boss will be removed as an optional at a patch later than the coming one since their situation is a little more... complex. (Having the double jump ability kinda breaks that fight, making it a walk in the park... relatively speaking.)

* Achievements:
- Next patch will fix the still bugged ending achievements. You should still be able to get them relatively easy via an existing save. Same for the "Proportional" Achievement. That's the goal at least.

* New weapon:
- So eh, yeah. The "Instruments" achievement was actually broken because of me. I kept moving around a certain weapon called the "Tooth Hammer" (Very Slow resonance+STR Wisp weapon), and I ended up accidently removing it from the game. It will be added back in the next patch, look for it in Feaster's Lair!

* Pull clarity:
- So we've been seeing a lot of players not really getting that you can pull enemies. So while I don't want to tell them straight up "this is how it's done and this is what to look for", so they can keep that "aha" moment. I do want to increase the rate at which people "Get it" and a bit earlier too.
Next patch will add the Circular yellow highlight that "Self-pullers" have when you get in range to... the majority of pull-able platforms.
The game in the mid-late game is balanced around using Pull, and while it is completely feasible to defeat every boss without it, it is also much harder than intended for those individuals.
Will be monitoring this one as well!

* Future patches:
- Still monitoring the Fast travel situation, I think the City may still need some kind of connection as well, not only to upgrade weapons for those stuck on the performance, but also for farming Ardor builds.
Either way, which ever solution it will be it will likely require some new texts since the Coda are not huge fans of Shidra and won't tolerate them interfering with the gift.

- Respec & weapon moveset testing. I see this coming up a lot and it's we're going to try to figure this one out. Will keep you posted on this one.

I know there is plenty more I haven't mentioned here but has been brought up a lot, but we will get to them as well, in time.

As always, thank you for your patience!


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Update 2 - Hptfix patch 1.0.4.5 is out, New Nervepasses are now working properly and you should no longer be blocked from an interaction near the end of the game.

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Update 1 - Patch 1.0.4 - So we've addressed the major issues from last week in this current patch:
Stuttering issue has been resolved.
Fast-travel points have been more than doubled.
Beacons lead you better to their location.
STR weapons have been buffed with more damage and less Force cost.
And many, many more fixes and tweaks.

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Hey everyone, GRIME director here! We read all of your comments, issues and suggestions. So, let's talk about some of them and let's see if we can help each other out make GRIME a better game. :)


First thing's first, BUGS:

1. Stuttering and/or the game appearing as though it runs on less than 60FPS despite having consistent and much higher FPS.

* This is still our top priority as it is clearly the most common technical issue with the game. We will experiment with another potential fix (1.0.4) either by the end of today or tomorrow. Let us know if there is any improvement afterwards. And if some of you are a little more... tech savvy, we're open to ideas.

2. Some wonky issues with Pull on the controller, such as being stuck in Pull state.

* Hopefully our next patch will fix this issue for all those experiencing the problem!


Other than that, right now we are still trying to asses the game's technical state and if there are any other major widespread issues. If not, we will be able to begin addressing some of the GAMEPLAY complaints (potential spoilers ahead):


3. Scarcity of Fast-travel points.

* Since we are currently more focused on tracking down major bugs, going over every single comment and trying to investigate, we haven't had much time to consider how to address the gameplay issues.

However, this is why we're here, I have potential solutions for this issue. And I would like to read all of your thoughts on them. From players who finished the game, player who dislike their current scarcity, if there are any who like them at all. I'm of a harsh criticism kinda guy so lay it on me honest.

All of these are in order of requiring a moderate amount of work to A LOT of work to implement. So just please take into consideration that it likely won't be apart of the next 2 patches or so.

A) Additional Nervepasses. An additional 1 for each side of the Worldpillar. These will require updating the maps, and more importantly, creating new areas in the world to hold these new Nervepasses, as well as new dialogue for the pass guardians.
Your feedback here will be super helpful in suggesting WHERE exactly on the map would you think the game would benefit the most from having them added to?

B) New enemy that doesn't respawn after being absorbed (like the Hunt Point Prey), scattered around the world. After finding & absorbing about 3~ of them you'll gain access to a moderately expensive trait (thinking 3/4 hunt points?) that will grant you the Warp ability (between checkpoints). I'm thinking of hiding them in such a way that by the time you reach Gloomnest from Feaster's Lair you'll be able to unlock the ability, IF you found them.

C) Turning the new enemy into some kind of a... simpler boss, to keep the logic of gaining these kinds of abilities from bosses. I'm thinking of hiding them around either Gloomnest or Yr Den.
This will obviously take the most amount of work.


These are my current thoughts and suggestions for Fast-Travel. Keep in mind that working on these will obviously delay us from working on possible solution to other things.

Whichever option we choose, though, this will effect the final Boss ability. I'm currently leaning towards it being more about fluff. Such as allowing you to gain access to the Peak of Creation. Or, something more mysterious that may only bear fruit both from a lore and gameplay perspective in much farther future.

Perhaps gaining access to another reality.


4. Being completely blind in an area until finding and activating a Beacon.

*One potential easy fix I've seen offered up, is drastically increasing the sound volume of the Beacon so you could track it down with sound as well as sight. Though, I consider it a lesser issue than the fast-travel, and what could be more of a matter of taste. I personally enjoyed in the feeling of being lost in HK and that game only updated the map whenever you rested at benches, unlike the Beacon which does it constantly once activated.
I've also made it no secret I'm a big fan of S&S, and that game had no map at all.

Either way, I wont let me own personal feeling or likes stand in the way of the majority of our players. So again, I would like to hear which if you liked system or hated it. And priority do you think it should take in the future.


I'll be reading all of your comment here even if I won't necessarily find the time to reply!

That's all for me from now, I need to get back to work!

[Dog Mode Enabled]

I don't know if this has always been an issue, but I picked the game up again this week and died in a position on the first boss that made the vessel unrecoverable after the fight (I didn't try to recover it during the fight). It was right on top of the gap on the right-hand side between the jaw and the rest of the area. No attacks were landing on it, on any weapon I had.

Not that it matters since Ardor is unlocked then anyway, just never saw it happen previously at all, anywhere.

[LittleBigPanda]

The game is gorgeous, I’ll immediately say thank you to the developers for such an unusual world!

The only thing I'm missing is the undisclosed Irov location, there's no boss, no real NPCs to reveal the essence of the location. And there is a bright personality in a golden mask, his further fate is also incomprehensible, they would reveal him as a character and give some kind of quest chain)

[Julio]

hi
thanks for a great game

there are a couple of places under the elevator in the palace that you can't return from (without getting the ability)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985013670

[Yarden]

Messaggio originale di Julio:

hi
thanks for a great game

there are a couple of places under the elevator in the palace that you can't return from (without getting the ability)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985013670

Did you reach this spot without having the self pull ability from Fidus? Because that shouldn't be possible, unless by some very aggressive, methodical sequence breaking :P?

[Julio]

Messaggio originale di Yarden:

Messaggio originale di Julio:

hi
thanks for a great game

there are a couple of places under the elevator in the palace that you can't return from (without getting the ability)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985013670

Did you reach this spot without having the self pull ability from Fidus? Because that shouldn't be possible, unless by some very aggressive, methodical sequence breaking :P?

i got stuck and tried to go down towards the marker

https://youtu.be/bR8LRCbiDLw

[Yarden]

Messaggio originale di Julio:

Messaggio originale di Yarden:

Did you reach this spot without having the self pull ability from Fidus? Because that shouldn't be possible, unless by some very aggressive, methodical sequence breaking :P?

i got stuck and tried to go down towards the marker

https://youtu.be/bR8LRCbiDLw

Huh so yeah, a bit of unintended sequence breaking with the pulled lantern trick :P

You need to first reach the top of Palace by going to the right and upwards from the initial checkpoint. There you ride a platform that you can pull while parrying the spear traps.

[LittleBigPanda]

I have a question about tomorrow's update
Will it affect only the new game + or will something change in the regular one too?
I'm just thinking, should I start going through the usual game today, so that I can start playing the update later, or is it better to do it tomorrow after the update?

[LittleBigPanda]

what time will the update come out today?)

[Yarden]

Messaggio originale di LittleBigPanda:

I have a question about tomorrow's update
Will it affect only the new game + or will something change in the regular one too?
I'm just thinking, should I start going through the usual game today, so that I can start playing the update later, or is it better to do it tomorrow after the update?

Only NG+

Messaggio originale di LittleBigPanda:

what time will the update come out today?)

About 2 hours I think

[LittleBigPanda]

Messaggio originale di Yarden:

Messaggio originale di LittleBigPanda:

I have a question about tomorrow's update
Will it affect only the new game + or will something change in the regular one too?
I'm just thinking, should I start going through the usual game today, so that I can start playing the update later, or is it better to do it tomorrow after the update?

Only NG+

Messaggio originale di LittleBigPanda:

what time will the update come out today?)

About 2 hours I think

Well, you'll have to go through the game faster on normal difficulty)
Thanks for the info)

[BADhumanism43]

So.....
The update comes out at 19:00?
Or at 21:00?

[hello]

That depends on what time zone you're in

[BADhumanism43]

germanish?

[LittleBigPanda]

Hello developers)

One embarrassing moment in the game that is a little unsettling is that teleporters and monsters, in the menu, are not in the order of the type of location, so that it would be in progression and more organically, constructively, and at the moment they are in random order, at the time of first finding.
For example, I found one left stone in the Cradle, and then I decided to go to the Nest of Gloom, and it turns out that I will go after the plot, open many teleports of other locations, then return to the Cradle, open a new left stone and the teleport will be on the list not next to the first of the same locations, and on another page it is inconvenient to flip through the pages of the interface each time in order to teleport where necessary, it is convenient when teleports from the same area go one after another.
I would like such a future edit, a trifle, but it will streamline some points.
Perhaps my pedantry speaks for me)

[Glaive master hodir]

Hey dev
I defeated the secret boss dreamborn horror I couldn't find it in the prey gauntlet