I think rebuilding breaks the whole game

[Dorque]

Not just the balance, but the very premise. I thought it was super cool how I was building my own equipment. The ring system with the elements and limited picks is really neat. But then I unlock Rebuilding and find out the ring system doesn't matter because you can always go back and fill in the dots you missed later.

The only thing rebuilding can't change is the base quality, but that means it can't make it worse either. So instead of picking and combining materials in interesting ways (which is, ya know, alchemy) I'm just going to throw whatever high quality stuff I have in the pot. Sort by quality, click click click. Then I'll rebuild with whatever I have with the talents I want later. Filter by Attack Charge, drop it in anywhere.

Has this been how all Atelier games have done it? Without Rebuilding this game is totally fun.

(Don't reply "If you don't think it's fun don't use it". This is a post about game design.)

[Zaris]

Just watch some youtube videos about creating endgame items and you will understand this feature better. To keep it short: In endgame they craft materials with 999 quality and +x attribute / +y all attribute, craft from the first weapon up to the last with that to add hundreds of state points on the weapon, armor, accessoires. After that they fill out slots with rebuilding which don't have 999 quality mats because they are only monster drops or something like that which can't be upgraded to 999.

Rebuilding is also limited to you alchemy level. Which means in best case you could add up to ~98 items on a item (mats with element 0, item base quality 1). More realistically it's more in the range of 15-20. Crafting through all 5 weapon recipies add about 24 extra slots to the base 12 slots. So it's quite balanced.

[mechaboy]

Right. As you build higher end items, the alchemy level becomes a bigger and bigger deal. Because if you do throw in your absurdly powerful mats, it's going to max the item level out very quickly. Especially items like Elixirs and so on. Getting to level 99 alchemy is a massive slog.

Balance for this game in general is whack. Either you get wrecked or you wreck everything. Just wait until OP gets Red Stones....

[Bobucles]

This comment is awaiting analysis by our automated content check system. It will be temporarily hidden until we verify that it does not contain harmful content (e.g. links to websites that attempt to steal information).

[Dorque]

Originally posted by mechaboy:

Right. As you build higher end items, the alchemy level becomes a bigger and bigger deal. Because if you do throw in your absurdly powerful mats, it's going to max the item level out very quickly. Especially items like Elixirs and so on. Getting to level 99 alchemy is a massive slog.

Balance for this game in general is whack. Either you get wrecked or you wreck everything. Just wait until OP gets Red Stones....

Ya know, this does make me feel better. If there is a very real and difficult hard limit to rebuilding, then I'll just consider it "polishing" a weapon I've made as a last step. Part of the process. Thank you.

[ButtStorm]

Originally posted by Dorque:

Not just the balance, but the very premise. I thought it was super cool how I was building my own equipment. The ring system with the elements and limited picks is really neat. But then I unlock Rebuilding and find out the ring system doesn't matter because you can always go back and fill in the dots you missed later.

The only thing rebuilding can't change is the base quality, but that means it can't make it worse either. So instead of picking and combining materials in interesting ways (which is, ya know, alchemy) I'm just going to throw whatever high quality stuff I have in the pot. Sort by quality, click click click. Then I'll rebuild with whatever I have with the talents I want later. Filter by Attack Charge, drop it in anywhere.

Has this been how all Atelier games have done it? Without Rebuilding this game is totally fun.

(Don't reply "If you don't think it's fun don't use it". This is a post about game design.)

Every mechanic breaks the game in atelier games, thats the point;
If you play on lower diff - you pass without doing anything;
If you play on medium-hard - you may need to use 1 or 2 things without clear understanding to beat the game;
If you play on very hard or charismatic - you will need to understand most of mechanics, and you can only skip one or two of them
If you play on legendary - you will need every mechanic known and abused, that including item rebuild. its pretty much mandatory then.

nothing to do with rebuilding in particular, you just dont understand any other mechanics, or you would make complain about everything. youre playing an intro into the genre, the real game is legendary, and the chill game is charismatic. necromancing away

[Demiurge]

Originally posted by ButtStorm:

Originally posted by Dorque:

Not just the balance, but the very premise. I thought it was super cool how I was building my own equipment. The ring system with the elements and limited picks is really neat. But then I unlock Rebuilding and find out the ring system doesn't matter because you can always go back and fill in the dots you missed later.

The only thing rebuilding can't change is the base quality, but that means it can't make it worse either. So instead of picking and combining materials in interesting ways (which is, ya know, alchemy) I'm just going to throw whatever high quality stuff I have in the pot. Sort by quality, click click click. Then I'll rebuild with whatever I have with the talents I want later. Filter by Attack Charge, drop it in anywhere.

Has this been how all Atelier games have done it? Without Rebuilding this game is totally fun.

(Don't reply "If you don't think it's fun don't use it". This is a post about game design.)

Every mechanic breaks the game in atelier games, thats the point;
If you play on lower diff - you pass without doing anything;
If you play on medium-hard - you may need to use 1 or 2 things without clear understanding to beat the game;
If you play on very hard or charismatic - you will need to understand most of mechanics, and you can only skip one or two of them
If you play on legendary - you will need every mechanic known and abused, that including item rebuild. its pretty much mandatory then.

nothing to do with rebuilding in particular, you just dont understand any other mechanics, or you would make complain about everything. youre playing an intro into the genre, the real game is legendary, and the chill game is charismatic. necromancing away

Lol saying yhe real game is replaying in the hardest mode is just goofy. Also, why would i want to play more than once? just because you want ro be a masochist or like to stroke your own ego doesn't mean the majority of people want to play that way. Atelier games are for a laid-back relaxing experience.