Man, Lucretia's Final Mission SUCKS

[Sima Yeet]

This is primarily just a vent post but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dude, who thought this mission was a good idea?

You have a map that is basically empty space, they compensate this with fog of war which adds nothing but frustration, it wouldn't be so bad but the enemy artillery cheats and has infinite range, meaning that you will get hit from anywhere without any idea where the enemy is, he could be right next to you but he could also be across the map.

So you run around the map dealing with cheating AI and constant waves of Paladins. The solution? Use your snail paced Swamp Mammoth to slowly chew through the hostile waves and you kite them with your scout. This process is painfully slow and if ANYTHING wrong happens you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I love this game, I grew up with this game but this mission is cancer.

[DrewUniverse]

I think your inability to overcome the mission is over-exaggerating the "cancer factor," but it's good of you to realize you're venting. Yes, it's a messy mission that feels disjointed from the rest of the campaign. I guess I just like to see it more as a preface to the increased difficulty seen in the two other campaigns that follow.

Most people get through it with a Swamp Mammoth to take out most of the random infantry and archers. Cavalry to quickly disable enemy artillery till you can get up close with Lucretia, and Dark Elf archers are basically necessary lest you get roasted by enemy air units. Sucks.

I do think the mission in general can be good, just needs some better fine-tuning. I'd lighten the fog effect a bit, add some terrain, and limit the range of the ballistae. That said, a lot of games have cheating AI that use more resources than you'd have with the same unit, so I don't see that as outright wrong.. it's just a difficulty change. Then again infinite range is a bit much.

[EMDream]

Run straight north avoid the major enemies then run west sticking to the edge of the map. Cutscene... Backtrack to Northeast along same route bingo done.

Don't get near the center that's where the flyers and heaviest enemies are located.

[Sima Yeet]

Yeah I got through it, cancer is a harsh word that should probably be changed to unfair. The length + the slowness of the mission + in my opinion a lack of elements that make most of the missions fun (like momentum and terrain) really makes the mission a mess. The info dumping doesn't help.

It isn't about difficulty though because I've jumped into Kendal's campaign and I'm havign a blast, is it hard? Yes it is very hard, is it unfair? No I think its pretty fair and that I think is the difference, Holy Ground makes me feel cheated, not accomplished.

[EMDream]

Originally posted by Sima Yeet:

Yeah I got through it, cancer is a harsh word that should probably be changed to unfair. The length + the slowness of the mission + in my opinion a lack of elements that make most of the missions fun (like momentum and terrain) really makes the mission a mess. The info dumping doesn't help.

It isn't about difficulty though because I've jumped into Kendal's campaign and I'm havign a blast, is it hard? Yes it is very hard, is it unfair? No I think its pretty fair and that I think is the difference, Holy Ground makes me feel cheated, not accomplished.

Kendal's campaign is hard if you don't understand certain tactics. The maps tell you be prepared for flyers or traps etc before the start. If you don't being archers with you to shoot down the wyverns it's game over it's seems kinda handholding actually. But, it's the best campaign I've played so far only have one more to go.

[Fat Frog]

its a little easier if you do the leveling exploit to get heavy orc calvary to get all the ranged and a minimum swamp mammoth and I used calvary archers for the storm riders.

[RagingRoland]

I"ve used scout and wiverns to locate ballistas... If you pay attention you can see the general direction from where the shots are fired. I went straight to ballistas and then melted all paladins with lightning buff. This mission wasn't hard at all for me, only kind of boring.

[Kravys]

Originally posted by EMDream:

Run straight north avoid the major enemies then run west sticking to the edge of the map. Cutscene... Backtrack to Northeast along same route bingo done.

Don't get near the center that's where the flyers and heaviest enemies are located.

This isn't working for me, I went straight north then I moved west, no cutscene was triggered, I avoided most of the enemies though. Any ideas?

[DrewUniverse]

I just do a modified version of an old guide. Start by sending Cavalry, Lucretia Infantry, Archers, & Swamp Mammoth to the west. No northern tilt. Activate your scout at the same time to help spot the archers and paladins along the way. The Cav need to engtangle the western Ballista until your infantry gets there, and use wide formation on both of them to shorten the time it takes. Let your Mammoth deal with any paladins and archers when possible and go straight for that first ballista because Lucretia manually controlled will kill that troop a lot quicker. Enemy archers and paladins aren't a big threat yet and you can finish them more safely once the ballista is down.

After a few waves of archers and paladins there should be a cutscene. Move to the east, directly north of where you spawned. If you want to break up their forces a bit, avoid the middle and take the scenic route back to spawn, then go north somewhat-hugging the east edge. You can scout first, but I prefer to send Cav in quickly because the second and final ballista is here. You don't need the Mammoth to support you at this location, but you can wait if you like to play it safer. Entangle the ballista with cav, send in Lucretia + the rest. Make sure your Archers are always nearby - enemy air units may converge now (if not, they will later). Their top priority is enemy air support when they are not needed for Tree of Illusion.

After this second area is cleaned up, continue north with a scout and all your forces. It's a single enemy troop engaged with a temporary ally - defeat them to advance the mission story. From here all that's left undiscovered on this huge map is the general west, center, and north-northwest. Proceed westward from the northeast edge with a scout. If you didn't aggro air units before, they will come at this stage. Ground troops are present - use your scout and, if you like, let the Swamp Mammoth take care of those forces. Keep your archers supporting it and harass with cavalry. Clean up these northwestern forces. Your final objective should be just a bit diagonally inland from the NW corner area.

Note that if you approach the map in a different order of operations, the scripted engagement involving an allied force will proc in the southwest rather than the northeast.

[Kravys]

Originally posted by DrewUniverse:

I just do a modified version of an old guide. Start by sending Cavalry, Lucretia Infantry, Archers, & Swamp Mammoth to the west. No northern tilt. Activate your scout at the same time to help spot the archers and paladins along the way. The Cav need to engtangle the western Ballista until your infantry gets there, and use wide formation on both of them to shorten the time it takes. Let your Mammoth deal with any paladins and archers when possible and go straight for that first ballista because Lucretia manually controlled will kill that troop a lot quicker. Enemy archers and paladins aren't a big threat yet and you can finish them more safely once the ballista is down.

After a few waves of archers and paladins there should be a cutscene. Move to the east, directly north of where you spawned. If you want to break up their forces a bit, avoid the middle and take the scenic route back to spawn, then go north somewhat-hugging the east edge. You can scout first, but I prefer to send Cav in quickly because the second and final ballista is here. You don't need the Mammoth to support you at this location, but you can wait if you like to play it safer. Entangle the ballista with cav, send in Lucretia + the rest. Make sure your Archers are always nearby - enemy air units may converge now (if not, they will later). Their top priority is enemy air support when they are not needed for Tree of Illusion.

After this second area is cleaned up, continue north with a scout and all your forces. It's a single enemy troop engaged with a temporary ally - defeat them to advance the mission story. From here all that's left undiscovered on this huge map is the general west, center, and north-northwest. Proceed westward from the northeast edge with a scout. If you didn't aggro air units before, they will come at this stage. Ground troops are present - use your scout and, if you like, let the Swamp Mammoth take care of those forces. Keep your archers supporting it and harass with cavalry. Clean up these northwestern forces. Your final objective should be just a bit diagonally inland from the NW corner area.

Note that if you approach the map in a different order of operations, the scripted engagement involving an allied force will proc in the southwest rather than the northeast.

My problem with Swamp Mammoth is that it will hardly harm the paladins, paladins must be very close to him so that the Mammoth can do a significant amount of damage to them, otherwise, the Mammoth will only spit larvae and it could take ages to kill a single Paladin troop (Sw. Mammoth is lv 30)

Also, Paladins will always focus on my infantry/scout/archers/cavalry, they will ignore the Mammoth is there so yeah, I feel like Sw. Mammoth is useless, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong though, I'm trying to figure out what is it.

[DrewUniverse]

Originally posted by Kravys:

My problem with Swamp Mammoth is that it will hardly harm the paladins, paladins must be very close to him so that the Mammoth can do a significant amount of damage to them, otherwise, the Mammoth will only spit larvae and it could take ages to kill a single Paladin troop (Sw. Mammoth is lv 30)

Also, Paladins will always focus on my infantry/scout/archers/cavalry, they will ignore the Mammoth is there so yeah, I feel like Sw. Mammoth is useless, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong though, I'm trying to figure out what is it.

Hmmm. I have been speculating that the AI behaves a bit differently from the Xbox versions. Whether that's an accident, intentional, or just my imagination is still unclear to me. As an alternative, you can use Wyverns to harass. The difference is that Wyverns will grant some vision radius, have to be protected very well against enemy archers, and seem to have less Damage-over-time than mammoths but that might be the low skill I used them with.

I dunno what is amiss with your Mammoth - in the Steam version I had mine at the minimum level of 22 and it took good care of paladins. As for the aggro problem, once your Infantry is engaged with the ballista the cav can be reassigned to hold the paladins while mammoth bombards them. Having melee at 11-12 is sufficient for Cav to last long in melee, and archer's Tree of Illusion can sustain them as needed.

Edit: I just tried a level 41 Wyvern. It did some good work. I went straight west, found the ballista and entangled it with cav. I ignored and ran past all enemy paladins/archers till I got to the ballista, and I ended up having ALL the paladin troops and ballista on top of Lucretia Lv. 20. Wasn't too bad, just needed a tree of illusion. Wyverns did alright but elemental boost (lightning type) was a major help on both my infantry and the archers. With that many enemies around Lucretia, SP gain is a pushover so an alternative is a nice level 11-12 or higher lightning skill on your archers, casting thunderstorm. It will roast those paladins.

I will say the Wyvern's vision helped me find the ballista faster than I would've with random cav-searching and a scout (especially for people who are playing this the first time, wyvern will make it easier in this regard). Once the mega-paladin and ballista stack is engaged with lucretia, keep enemy archers busy with cav I guess. Note that when troops get thinned out, wyverns seem to take awhile to finish them off. I investigated with a scout as they engaged enemy archers. A lot of their attacks miss, graphically and in terms of the HP bar. Too bad we can't widen/expand support troops' attack radius.

[Kravys]

Originally posted by DrewUniverse:

Originally posted by Kravys:

My problem with Swamp Mammoth is that it will hardly harm the paladins, paladins must be very close to him so that the Mammoth can do a significant amount of damage to them, otherwise, the Mammoth will only spit larvae and it could take ages to kill a single Paladin troop (Sw. Mammoth is lv 30)

Also, Paladins will always focus on my infantry/scout/archers/cavalry, they will ignore the Mammoth is there so yeah, I feel like Sw. Mammoth is useless, I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong though, I'm trying to figure out what is it.

Hmmm. I have been speculating that the AI behaves a bit differently from the Xbox versions. Whether that's an accident, intentional, or just my imagination is still unclear to me. As an alternative, you can use Wyverns to harass. The difference is that Wyverns will grant some vision radius, have to be protected very well against enemy archers, and seem to have less Damage-over-time than mammoths but that might be the low skill I used them with.

I dunno what is amiss with your Mammoth - in the Steam version I had mine at the minimum level of 22 and it took good care of paladins. As for the aggro problem, once your Infantry is engaged with the ballista the cav can be reassigned to hold the paladins while mammoth bombards them. Having melee at 11-12 is sufficient for Cav to last long in melee, and archer's Tree of Illusion can sustain them as needed.

Edit: I just tried a level 41 Wyvern. It did some good work. I went straight west, found the ballista and entangled it with cav. I ignored and ran past all enemy paladins/archers till I got to the ballista, and I ended up having ALL the paladin troops and ballista on top of Lucretia Lv. 20. Wasn't too bad, just needed a tree of illusion. Wyverns did alright but elemental boost (lightning type) was a major help on both my infantry and the archers. With that many enemies around Lucretia, SP gain is a pushover so an alternative is a nice level 11-12 or higher lightning skill on your archers, casting thunderstorm. It will roast those paladins.

I will say the Wyvern's vision helped me find the ballista faster than I would've with random cav-searching and a scout (especially for people who are playing this the first time, wyvern will make it easier in this regard). Once the mega-paladin and ballista stack is engaged with lucretia, keep enemy archers busy with cav I guess. Note that when troops get thinned out, wyverns seem to take awhile to finish them off. I investigated with a scout as they engaged enemy archers. A lot of their attacks miss, graphically and in terms of the HP bar. Too bad we can't widen/expand support troops' attack radius.

Very well, I'll try this alternative now, but first would you mind marking on this map the EXACT routes I should take?

https://i.imgur.com/w7YdpFF.jpg

First west, find the ballista and charge with cavalry ignoring the paladins and archers, then what? Charge the Paladins with Lucretia D.Knights (Lv 20)?

Also, what about the first cutscene? You know, the one where Morene explains to Lucretia what's going on, how are you supposed to trigger this cutscene? I'm waiting for your response, now I'll focus on getting that lighting elemental boost and improving my archers lighting skill.

EDIT 1: Does this seem right to you?

https://i.imgur.com/zFIFuHf.jpg

Also, my wyverns are lv 30, I don't think I can level them any further, I'm low on EXP as you can see.

[EMDream]

Here is the route I used for my playthrough. Once you get to the top left hand corner you'll get a cutscene. After the cutscene, a few groups of enemies will spawn on the return route and all you have to do is save the elf in the right hand corner of the map.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2015394622

[Kravys]

I finally did it, thanks for the help everyone!

Originally posted by EMDream:

Here is the route I used for my playthrough. Once you get to the top left hand corner you'll get a cutscene. After the cutscene, a few groups of enemies will spawn on the return route and all you have to do is save the elf in the right hand corner of the map.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2015394622

I did not take that route, first I sent the Wyverns to explore the west until I found the ballista then I charged them, Wyverns and Cavalry kept the archers and ballista busy while Lucretia and my archers fought the Paladins. I kept heading north while repeating the same tactic for the next two groups of Paladins and Magic Infantry. Then I found the surviving dark elf. I barely lost any health, but right after the second cutscene, a B.Wing appeared and destroyed my Archers. I managed to take the B.Wing down with the Wyverns, it was kinda tricky, I had to take some weird routes back and forward keeping Lucretia out of the B.Wing' sight.

Then I headed to the northwest triggering the third cutscene, I retreated to the south-west while fighting the Paladin troops and Magic Infantry one by one until there was none left.

Archers are really helpful for this mission, especially with a high lighting skill. also, every time I engaged a troop in combat, I switched to either cavalry or archers and used the Tree of Healing skill, really helpful too.


Thanks again for your help!

[DrewUniverse]

By Curian, that's one heck of a shortcut. I want to test that out. Kravys, nice work! if you still want to try clearing everything out: here's a rough map[imgur.com]

1. Cav to Ballista in west with all forces following. If you get aggro'd on the way, retreat to ballista and then out.
2. Lucretia with ele boost lightning right before engaging ballista, archers attack at range. Cav to enemy archers. By this point most or all paladin troops will be on top of their ballista and Lucretia.
3. Generate SP with Lucretia and get your first Tree up, plus ele boost on archers if you can (or Thunderstorm).
4. Keep Lucretia at full HP as you wipe out the paladins. If you prefer Wyverns over Mammoth, watch their HP until the enemy archers are engaged in melee or otherwise dead.

--- cutscene --

1. back to spawn, then up to point 2. Less enemies here: entangle ballista with cav first, bring the rest of your forces and wipe stuff out. Watch for enemy air, sometimes it attacks this early.

-- cutscene --

Move NE to point 3, wipe out single troop.

-- cutscene --

scout west along north edge of map to point 4. watch out for enemy spells and archers. Thoroughly check the NW corner for remnant troops, then move to point 5.

[Kravys]

Originally posted by DrewUniverse:

By Curian, that's one heck of a shortcut. I want to test that out. Kravys, nice work! if you still want to try clearing everything out: here's a rough map[imgur.com]

1. Cav to Ballista in west with all forces following. If you get aggro'd on the way, retreat to ballista and then out.
2. Lucretia with ele boost lightning right before engaging ballista, archers attack at range. Cav to enemy archers. By this point most or all paladin troops will be on top of their ballista and Lucretia.
3. Generate SP with Lucretia and get your first Tree up, plus ele boost on archers if you can (or Thunderstorm).
4. Keep Lucretia at full HP as you wipe out the paladins. If you prefer Wyverns over Mammoth, watch their HP until the enemy archers are engaged in melee or otherwise dead.

--- cutscene --

1. back to spawn, then up to point 2. Less enemies here: entangle ballista with cav first, bring the rest of your forces and wipe stuff out. Watch for enemy air, sometimes it attacks this early.

-- cutscene --

Move NE to point 3, wipe out single troop.

-- cutscene --

scout west along north edge of map to point 4. watch out for enemy spells and archers. Thoroughly check the NW corner for remnant troops, then move to point 5.

Your troops selection/build served me well. I don't understand why so many people prefer Swamp Mammoths for this mission, they are slow and enemies will ignore them. (At least on my own experience)

The combination Wyverns + Cavalry is stunning, Wyverns did not lose any health for me, Cavalry kept the enemy archers busy all the time.

Thanks Drew.