Car Tuning Suggestions.

[SkyWolf (Cirrus!) θΔ]

1.) Springs, Shocks, and Sway Bars need to have more effect on handling. Also, the effect for springs is apparently bizarrely reversed. Harder springs generally give less grip, not more. Im not sure how that slipped by the devs given the general accuracy of most of the other adjustable options.

2.) Add bump stops to higher end suspension parts (probably to race springs and higher) with adjustable height. This keeps cars from bottoming out or wheels from sticking out of fenders when compressed.

3.) Add the ability to adjust idle style and rev limiter style. Just for fun. Some rev limiters are really slow, idles can sometimes be high, it would be nice to adjust some of those parameters within reason to give your car some flair. Likely would be part of the adjustable ECU upgrades.

4.) Add AWS to cars that had it, add AWS options for cars that do not have it stock but variations of said car could use it (looking at R32 and R34 skylines, for example). This would increase the maneuverability of those cars and add a very refreshing character to them. AWS mods would be included under the drivetrain swap options (for example: R34 with AWD+AWS with more expense than the standard AWD swap).

5.) Ability to adjust the central diff in AWD cars. We can adjust front and aft, but somehow not the middle differential which would make a huge difference.

[<#0ef>Step]

Springs, shocks, arbs all have huge effect on handling. Also not sure where you get that "harder springs = more grip", it was always the opposite.

[<Blank />]

Springs being hard isn't automatically more grip, it's not necessarily inaccurate. Springs being hard doesn't give 'grip' it gives (generally) quicker response and more stability but on a road, and not on a race track, that stability is compromised - usually quite a lot - by the road surface.

Look at race cars in the 60s to the 80s, especially low downforce cars that relied on ultra-stiff suspensions - they slide a LOT.

And springs need to operate in tandem with the dampers anyway.

Soft suspensions give 'grip' because soft suspensions are constantly in contact with the surface, but this also has problems with body roll inertia and understeer from overloading.

It's possible to mess up both extremes. Drift cars run super-hard suspensions. The more body rigidity and stable platform overall you have, the easier it is to initiate.

[Providenceangle]

Springs hard in the front will cause understeer. Most stock or aftermarket springs are hard for this reason. It's easier to control a car that understeers. Thicker rear swapbars with lower front spring rates make the car rotate and handle better. In real life the best mod is tires which Car X street does not do well.

[SkyWolf (Cirrus!) θΔ]

Folks, I know how the setups are SUPPOSED to work. The reason for the first suggestion was because...well I don't think it works like that in-game and that caught me off guard. If it worked as expected, I would not of made the suggestion.

It feels like hardening the front springs gives more oversteer, for example. This is not how its SUPPOSED to work.

Additionally while suspension does have an effect, coming from other sims it feels like its not enough of an effect. Perhaps some more testing and data would be useful...something feels off in one way or another. Perhaps its because most of my setup experience comes from stock car racing, idk.

If it works properly in-game and somehow it just doesn't work for me, I have no idea what the culprit is. I tried to set up cars the way I would in other sims but there was no effect, an inverse effect even.

[<Blank />]

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Springs hard in the front will cause understeer. Most stock or aftermarket springs are hard for this reason. It's easier to control a car that understeers. Thicker rear swapbars with lower front spring rates make the car rotate and handle better. In real life the best mod is tires which Car X street does not do well.

Originally posted by SkyWolf (Cirrus!) θΔ:

Folks, I know how the setups are SUPPOSED to work. The reason for the first suggestion was because...well I don't think it works like that in-game and that caught me off guard. If it worked as expected, I would not of made the suggestion.

It feels like hardening the front springs gives more oversteer, for example. This is not how its SUPPOSED to work.

Additionally while suspension does have an effect, coming from other sims it feels like its not enough of an effect. Perhaps some more testing and data would be useful...something feels off in one way or another. Perhaps its because most of my setup experience comes from stock car racing, idk.

If it works properly in-game and somehow it just doesn't work for me, I have no idea what the culprit is. I tried to set up cars the way I would in other sims but there was no effect, an inverse effect even.

I haven't tested things in game, beyond applying my own setups and them seeming to do what I wanted them to do -

But two things to keep in mind is; a lot of setup myths are myths created by people who 'feel' the car a certain way. Most people, especially most videogame players do not understand actual suspension geometry or realworld physics and just assume certain things. Going by 'feel' is different from what the actual settings might be doing; for example -

you could have a car set up absolutely optimally on a seven post rig that's gone through hours of sim testing on a nasa computer and hand it to a race car driver and it'll be a second and a half off because he's not driving it optimally according to the physical 'rules' in place by the setup.


so there's a lot of myths as to what setups actually do
because to the drivers they're doing different things depending on how the driver is driving the car
or how the steering box is set up
or how much power there is
or the weather conditions
or the track surface conditions

and they have NO IDEA how to adjust for any of this

they just think 'slam slider to right, right means better, because it worked last time in another game and that's what reddit said'

Are either of you 'that' guy? I don't know, but the statements here are very broad.


So Skywolf says he has experience in stock car setups, great, that's my bread and butter so lets attack it from that perspective -

What's the camber doing? What's the caster doing? What's the rear end, especially, doing?

Just like in stock car racing, stiffening the front only works to induce understeer if the rear is softer than the front and the front has to work to drag it along. Usually, you would indeed start 'snug' by having stiffer front springs and less aggressive damper (and bump) and softer rear on a new track or with a new driver for security and then free the car up, in stock cars you'd probably do that with the rear sway and stiffening the springs if required. You usually don't want aggressive springs and dampers in circle track racing on the rear, because you want the ass end to lay down as much as possible. (There's also issues like skew, but that doesn't apply today)

But in order for the front to bite better, you need to have a few things in line first -

Your steering box quickness, the caster angle and the toe and camber angle/pressures are primary for front bite.

Front suspension geometry is fine tuning the front bite for more stability and predictable handling characteristics you want in the car, just like the rear, but they have to be working together.

If you have hardness on all four corners (like an open wheel car or a prototype or some drifters and myself) it'll be pointy but stable, optimally and understeer only when overdriven.

If you have hard front and too soft rear, it'll generally understeer and understeer MORE when overdriven

and if you have soft front and soft rear, it'll feel sloshy and 'out of the road' (ironically, the actual physics make it too far INTO the road but this is the paradox of roll inertia) but also generally snap-oversteer when overdriven (laying over on itself, you can see exaggeration of this in trophy/stadium truck racing)

So I would first check to see what the steering and the rear is doing and if the rear settings align to the front settings doing unexpected things.

On my cars, I haven't had a problem with this so far. But it's certainly possible there's cars with bugs or other settings have masked an issue.

But check thoroughly to make sure the issue is present, because 'slider go right but car no grip' doesn't actually explain the issue well enough.

[SkyWolf (Cirrus!) θΔ]

Originally posted by <Blank />:

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Springs hard in the front will cause understeer. Most stock or aftermarket springs are hard for this reason. It's easier to control a car that understeers. Thicker rear swapbars with lower front spring rates make the car rotate and handle better. In real life the best mod is tires which Car X street does not do well.

Originally posted by SkyWolf (Cirrus!) θΔ:

Folks, I know how the setups are SUPPOSED to work. The reason for the first suggestion was because...well I don't think it works like that in-game and that caught me off guard. If it worked as expected, I would not of made the suggestion.

It feels like hardening the front springs gives more oversteer, for example. This is not how its SUPPOSED to work.

Additionally while suspension does have an effect, coming from other sims it feels like its not enough of an effect. Perhaps some more testing and data would be useful...something feels off in one way or another. Perhaps its because most of my setup experience comes from stock car racing, idk.

If it works properly in-game and somehow it just doesn't work for me, I have no idea what the culprit is. I tried to set up cars the way I would in other sims but there was no effect, an inverse effect even.

I haven't tested things in game, beyond applying my own setups and them seeming to do what I wanted them to do -

But two things to keep in mind is; a lot of setup myths are myths created by people who 'feel' the car a certain way. Most people, especially most videogame players do not understand actual suspension geometry or realworld physics and just assume certain things. Going by 'feel' is different from what the actual settings might be doing; for example -

you could have a car set up absolutely optimally on a seven post rig that's gone through hours of sim testing on a nasa computer and hand it to a race car driver and it'll be a second and a half off because he's not driving it optimally according to the physical 'rules' in place by the setup.


so there's a lot of myths as to what setups actually do
because to the drivers they're doing different things depending on how the driver is driving the car
or how the steering box is set up
or how much power there is
or the weather conditions
or the track surface conditions

and they have NO IDEA how to adjust for any of this

they just think 'slam slider to right, right means better, because it worked last time in another game and that's what reddit said'

Are either of you 'that' guy? I don't know, but the statements here are very broad.


So Skywolf says he has experience in stock car setups, great, that's my bread and butter so lets attack it from that perspective -

What's the camber doing? What's the caster doing? What's the rear end, especially, doing?

Just like in stock car racing, stiffening the front only works to induce understeer if the rear is softer than the front and the front has to work to drag it along. Usually, you would indeed start 'snug' by having stiffer front springs and less aggressive damper (and bump) and softer rear on a new track or with a new driver for security and then free the car up, in stock cars you'd probably do that with the rear sway and stiffening the springs if required. You usually don't want aggressive springs and dampers in circle track racing on the rear, because you want the ass end to lay down as much as possible. (There's also issues like skew, but that doesn't apply today)

But in order for the front to bite better, you need to have a few things in line first -

Your steering box quickness, the caster angle and the toe and camber angle/pressures are primary for front bite.

Front suspension geometry is fine tuning the front bite for more stability and predictable handling characteristics you want in the car, just like the rear, but they have to be working together.

If you have hardness on all four corners (like an open wheel car or a prototype or some drifters and myself) it'll be pointy but stable, optimally and understeer only when overdriven.

If you have hard front and too soft rear, it'll generally understeer and understeer MORE when overdriven

and if you have soft front and soft rear, it'll feel sloshy and 'out of the road' (ironically, the actual physics make it too far INTO the road but this is the paradox of roll inertia) but also generally snap-oversteer when overdriven (laying over on itself, you can see exaggeration of this in trophy/stadium truck racing)

So I would first check to see what the steering and the rear is doing and if the rear settings align to the front settings doing unexpected things.

On my cars, I haven't had a problem with this so far. But it's certainly possible there's cars with bugs or other settings have masked an issue.

But check thoroughly to make sure the issue is present, because 'slider go right but car no grip' doesn't actually explain the issue well enough.

You're right, most people have zero clue.

I wouldn't call myself a setup expert, but none of the methodology I would use in say iRacing feels like im making any progress. I have a pretty decent idea about how these setups work but I wouldn't call myself an engineer and I most certainly have a lot to learn.

Normally ur girl here would take a baseline setup, stiffen the front and rear sways as hard as I could and put the weight all the way back, then I would soften the front sway bar (usually) to get a sort of functional standard for the car. I would then start whittling my way through the alignment, springs, and shocks to maximize contact patch and reduce tire wear (especially on the poor RF tire) and get the handling where I want it.

It helped knowing the weights and tire wear, that's for sure. Especially after a long race, I could tell where the suspension needed most work through the tire wear and heat.

I do my best to study and I have read a good few setup guides. Obviously iRacing tries to provide a realistic product. So I was hoping that this game would have a (roughly) similar feel to it...and somehow its just not working for me - I have no clue what it is. I have to set up my cars very differently than other sims.

[Providenceangle]

Sir I'm a mechanic and enthusiast. I know what suspension does first hand. No I'm not a race car mechanic but the rules apply.

[<Blank />]

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Sir I'm a mechanic and enthusiast. I know what suspension does first hand. No I'm not a race car mechanic but the rules apply.

Sir this is a wendys

[Providenceangle]

Originally posted by <Blank />:

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Sir I'm a mechanic and enthusiast. I know what suspension does first hand. No I'm not a race car mechanic but the rules apply.

Sir this is a wendys

Can I get a double classic with fries and a coke?

[<Blank />]

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Originally posted by <Blank />:

Sir this is a wendys

Can I get a double classic with fries and a coke?

Would you like to biggie that for an additional 88c?

[Providenceangle]

Originally posted by <Blank />:

Originally posted by Providenceangle:

Can I get a double classic with fries and a coke?

Would you like to biggie that for an additional 88c?

Hmmm... That's a good question.