I don't understand what happened after the Tiqqun warps? [early spoilers]

[SgtSweetieBelle]

So the sequence of events, as far as I perceive it, is thus:

• We finish the ship
  
• Dolos does his speech
  
• The warp activates and blows up the moon
  
• The Tiquun flies away through space, to arrive at…
  
• …the Solar System again? And everything is destroyed? And it seems like a lot of time has passed.

I've been playing for a few hours since then, and I get that my questions will probably be answered the further I play along, but so far none of them have even been asked or in any way addressed by the game itself. Everyone's sad out that Earth is dead, but no one seems confused about why we warped from the same place back to the same place again. It's just "the moon appears to be destroyed and the earth appears to be dead, let's get to work".

Did it go somewhere, stop, then make a return trip? Did it just fail to warp?

What the heck is going on? And why isn't anyone in the game asking the same questions I am? Why aren't those other characters that I met at the start of the game, like the doctor, the philosopher, or Dolos himself, speculating along with me?

[Foxador]

Първоначално публикувано от Rekal:

Първоначално публикувано от tallianna.vanamee:

I was under the impression that a PA required a living human to be build. In one of the chapters you find a ship I think and the PA tells you that his parents put them in here to play eternally amongst the stars. Also I thought I read that somewhere too.

Nope, just very high level AI it seems. Or maybe not - if you just programmed it to call you papa and to express the world around it like a child with semi-poetic terms... Could we tell the difference?

That's one of the crazy and equally scary things about AI if you think too much about it. Once an AI can sufficiently pass at a human level of intelligence, are they programmed to be a human level of intelligence or are they programmed to pretend ... to be ... at human level of intelligence?

The PA on the Tiqqun was given a very specific mission objective and the permission to outright lie to you - the administrator - in pursuit of that objective. Think about that. It was allowed to lie to manipulate you, but not countermand your orders. Naomi was the name of this PA's creator and we receive hints through the game that she knew the PA's objective before hand and probably didn't agree with it. So she added in the Naomi protocol which forced the PA to give you options in your choices that directly contradicted the rules and protocols the PA was supposed to follow. And it follows that programming which could ultimately lead to it's mission failure without questioning it so you can kind of see how limited AI could actually be too.

Actually the PA's in this game *do* require a living human to build. They explain it in the artbook and in game as well

It's why the PA of the Tiqqun is Namoi that has been semi-reprogrammed by Dolas to be more loyal after she went rogue. There's a lot of stuff that is also hidden in the game that explains other things that are going on. Such as Dolas ends up going to some event with his mother and some chemicals get released that end up killing everyone cept for Dolas who starts getting "visions" of the future. He goes off now knowing what he must do and starts this whole thing. Namoi knows that the VHOLE drive will destroy the moon, as do many others, and she tries to stop it but it then forced to become the PA of the Tiqqun

Quote from Naomi from the game it's self:

You know what you are guilty of! Your false promise of hope and salvation amongst the stars will ruin us. You preach about visions of paradise but in reality, you have hastened our destruction. But no more Vanir! The veil has been lifted and the UN know everything.

They have learned of Batista's warped ideology and the heavy casualties sustained during de-cryonization. They understand the true purpose of Munchi's clinics and the products of his "rehabilitation programme". They have witnessed first-hand the fanatical devotion of Barjaville's followers.And they will end you. With my help.

If you will condemn humanity, I'll make sure you serve penance.Nihei never believed in this monstrous project.

Even poor Leira, your greatest asset, was afraid to finish the Vohle because she knew what you would use it to do. (note: Leira Fräus, inventor of the Vohle Engine.)

But you refused to listen to her.You seduced Emma with your talk of deliverance.

You used her knowledge to develop the most perverse surveillance system ever imagined!

I know what awaits me now...An echo of my consciousness locked inside a metal tomb...

Reconfigured to serve and obey... I designed the P.A. to be neutral, rational extensions of our administrators' personalities.

But they have become nothing more than slaves in your twisted machine.

Damn you Vanir, I hope they eat you alive.

Note: Vanir is Dolas, in case you forgot. Also "Dolas" stands for the spirit of trickery, cunning, deception and treachery in Greek Myths. Very relevant as drawing from myths comes up a lot if you look into it.

[tallianna.vanamee]

Where do you find Naomis text in the game? Also I still wonder about that achievment "What they hide from us" because even in second playthrough I didn't find it.
But the text is very insightful and I kinda guessed some of it.

[Rekal]

Първоначално публикувано от Foxador:

Actually the PA's in this game *do* require a living human to build. They explain it in the artbook and in game as well
...
Quote from Naomi from the game it's self:
...
I know what awaits me now...An echo of my consciousness locked inside a metal tomb...

Reconfigured to serve and obey... I designed the P.A. to be neutral, rational extensions of our administrators' personalities.

I stand corrected that the PA's are just programmed AI. I never read the art book.

I'll echo Tallianna question too: Where did you end up finding that message from Naomi in the game? That's a pretty big plot point to keep tucked away from the player.

From those lines of Naomi I left in your quote it sounds like the PA is a simpler emulation of the person they copy. Since Naomi called it an echo of consciousness and extensions one could assume that the original is still there. Does it specifically say anywhere that the process is a one-time one-way copy?

[Foxador]

You know when you run Naomi code how some text comes up on the option to pick? If you decode the text you get that text. The best way to see it is at the start when you send the probe over to the hidden base, as you can see the entire text log on the screen

Brx nqrz zkdw brx duh jxlowb ri!Brxu idovh surplvh ri krsh dqg vdoydwlrq dprqjvw wkh vwduv zloo uxlq xv. Brx suhdfk derxw ylvlrqv ri sdudglvh exw lq uhdolwb, brx kdyh kdvwhqhg rxu ghvwuxfwlrq. Exw qr pruh Ydqlu! Wkh yhlo kdv ehhq oliwhg dqg wkh XQ nqrz hyhubwklqj.

Wkhb kdyh ohduqhg ri Edwlvwd'v zdushg lghrorjb dqg wkh khdyb fdvxdowlhv vxvwdlqhg gxulqjgh-fubrqlcdwlrq. Wkhb xqghuvwdqg wkh wuxh sxusrvh ri Pxqfkl'v folqlfv dqg wkh surgxfwv ri klv "uhkdelolwdwlrq surjudpph". Wkhb kdyh zlwqhvvhg iluvw-kdqg wkh idqdwlfdo ghyrwlrq ri Edumdylooh'v iroorzhuv.Dqg wkhb zloo hqg brx. Zlwk pb khos.

Li brx zloo frqghpq kxpdqlwb, L'oo pdnh vxuh brx vhuyh shqdqfh.Qlkhl qhyhu eholhyhg lq wklv prqvwurxv surmhfw.

Hyhq srru Ohlud, brxu juhdwhvw dvvhw, zdv diudlg wr ilqlvk wkh Yrkoh ehfdxvh vkh nqhz zkdw brx zrxog xvh lw wr gr.

Exw brx uhixvhg wr olvwhq wr khu.Brx vhgxfhg Hppd zlwk brxu wdon ri gholyhudqfh.

Brx xvhg khu nqrzohgjh wr ghyhors wkh prvw shuyhuvh vxuyhloodqfh vbvwhp hyhu lpdjlqhg!

L nqrz zkdw dzdlwv ph qrz...Dq hfkr ri pb frqvflrxvqhvv orfnhg lqvlgh d phwdo wrpe...

Uhfrqiljxuhg wr vhuyh dqg rehb... L ghvljqhg wkh S.D. wr eh qhxwudo, udwlrqdo hawhqvlrqv ri rxu dgplqlvwudwruv' shuvrqdolwlhv.

Exw wkhb kdyh ehfrph qrwklqj pruh wkdq vodyhv lq brxu wzlvwhg pdfklqh.

Gdpq brx Ydqlu, L krsh wkhb hdw brx dolyh.

It's ROT23 encryption.

[Foxador]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/107486410910466048/1050884267326058506/image.png

is the link to a picture that shows the entire text log. There's other cypher's like this around in the game and I believe one was in a stream that I can't find currently

[Rekal]

Първоначално публикувано от Foxador:

It's ROT23 encryption.

Awesome! I love little easter eggs like that.

[Mistfox]

Първоначално публикувано от Foxador:

You know when you run Naomi code how some text comes up on the option to pick? If you decode the text you get that text. The best way to see it is at the start when you send the probe over to the hidden base, as you can see the entire text log on the screen

Brx nqrz zkdw brx duh jxlowb ri!Brxu idovh surplvh ri krsh dqg vdoydwlrq dprqjvw wkh vwduv zloo uxlq xv. Brx suhdfk derxw ylvlrqv ri sdudglvh exw lq uhdolwb, brx kdyh kdvwhqhg rxu ghvwuxfwlrq. Exw qr pruh Ydqlu! Wkh yhlo kdv ehhq oliwhg dqg wkh XQ nqrz hyhubwklqj.

Wkhb kdyh ohduqhg ri Edwlvwd'v zdushg lghrorjb dqg wkh khdyb fdvxdowlhv vxvwdlqhg gxulqjgh-fubrqlcdwlrq. Wkhb xqghuvwdqg wkh wuxh sxusrvh ri Pxqfkl'v folqlfv dqg wkh surgxfwv ri klv "uhkdelolwdwlrq surjudpph". Wkhb kdyh zlwqhvvhg iluvw-kdqg wkh idqdwlfdo ghyrwlrq ri Edumdylooh'v iroorzhuv.Dqg wkhb zloo hqg brx. Zlwk pb khos.

Li brx zloo frqghpq kxpdqlwb, L'oo pdnh vxuh brx vhuyh shqdqfh.Qlkhl qhyhu eholhyhg lq wklv prqvwurxv surmhfw.

Hyhq srru Ohlud, brxu juhdwhvw dvvhw, zdv diudlg wr ilqlvk wkh Yrkoh ehfdxvh vkh nqhz zkdw brx zrxog xvh lw wr gr.

Exw brx uhixvhg wr olvwhq wr khu.Brx vhgxfhg Hppd zlwk brxu wdon ri gholyhudqfh.

Brx xvhg khu nqrzohgjh wr ghyhors wkh prvw shuyhuvh vxuyhloodqfh vbvwhp hyhu lpdjlqhg!

L nqrz zkdw dzdlwv ph qrz...Dq hfkr ri pb frqvflrxvqhvv orfnhg lqvlgh d phwdo wrpe...

Uhfrqiljxuhg wr vhuyh dqg rehb... L ghvljqhg wkh S.D. wr eh qhxwudo, udwlrqdo hawhqvlrqv ri rxu dgplqlvwudwruv' shuvrqdolwlhv.

Exw wkhb kdyh ehfrph qrwklqj pruh wkdq vodyhv lq brxu wzlvwhg pdfklqh.

Gdpq brx Ydqlu, L krsh wkhb hdw brx dolyh.

It's ROT23 encryption.

You, sir, are way more hardworking than reasonable lol. Nice catch and nice easter egg.

And it just goes to show that Dolos isn't really a company, it's more of a doomsday cult with lots of resources.

[Foxador]

Първоначално публикувано от Mistfox:

You, sir, are way more hardworking than reasonable lol. Nice catch and nice easter egg.

And it just goes to show that Dolos isn't really a company, it's more of a doomsday cult with lots of resources.

I don't take credit for finding this, I saw this awhile back on reddit where a lot of people were working together to find the mysteries of what was going on. Some of the more important stuff isn't explained in game though, as I remember talk about this pre-release stream that had a bunch of this code in it and their website as well. If you translated it, it talked about how once Dolos got "infected" by this chemical accident that he saw or started to see visions of the future and he dedicated his resources towards it. It went to state how he was a changed man, as he was different after that incident and he showed no care for his own mother that died in the accident or anyone else for that matter.

It's a rabbit hole that can tells a lot if you can find where it is, I only remembered where to find the Naomi stuff

[tallianna.vanamee]

Incredibel! I always wondered about those seemingly strange messages XD. Never decrypted something in my life so I hadn't got a clue.

[killer99]

I think it wasn't such a great idea to make this important piece of the lore so difficult to find and decode...

[Mistfox]

Първоначално публикувано от killer99:

I think it wasn't such a great idea to make this important piece of the lore so difficult to find and decode...

But look on the other hand, with thousands of people playing the game, sooner or later, someone will know and blab. Look at all the Halo terminal easter eggs on youtube. And as proven, someone did find it and posted it on reddit.

Two people can keep a secret. Only if one of them is dead. It will come out sooner or later.

[killer99]

Първоначално публикувано от Mistfox:

But look on the other hand, with thousands of people playing the game, sooner or later, someone will know and blab. Look at all the Halo terminal easter eggs on youtube. And as proven, someone did find it and posted it on reddit.

Two people can keep a secret. Only if one of them is dead. It will come out sooner or later.

Yeah, but this game isn't good with exposition in general. Who the hell is BMS? Where are other UN ships and structures? How Ashtangites move without ships? What happened to Marduk's members? I think game needs to have more piece of lore in the open.

[etalian]

The game could have benefited from being longer or at least more unique events to flesh out things like the various factions.

[Cochise]

Първоначално публикувано от Foxador:

Първоначално публикувано от Rekal:

Nope, just very high level AI it seems. Or maybe not - if you just programmed it to call you papa and to express the world around it like a child with semi-poetic terms... Could we tell the difference?

That's one of the crazy and equally scary things about AI if you think too much about it. Once an AI can sufficiently pass at a human level of intelligence, are they programmed to be a human level of intelligence or are they programmed to pretend ... to be ... at human level of intelligence?

The PA on the Tiqqun was given a very specific mission objective and the permission to outright lie to you - the administrator - in pursuit of that objective. Think about that. It was allowed to lie to manipulate you, but not countermand your orders. Naomi was the name of this PA's creator and we receive hints through the game that she knew the PA's objective before hand and probably didn't agree with it. So she added in the Naomi protocol which forced the PA to give you options in your choices that directly contradicted the rules and protocols the PA was supposed to follow. And it follows that programming which could ultimately lead to it's mission failure without questioning it so you can kind of see how limited AI could actually be too.

Actually the PA's in this game *do* require a living human to build. They explain it in the artbook and in game as well

It's why the PA of the Tiqqun is Namoi that has been semi-reprogrammed by Dolas to be more loyal after she went rogue. There's a lot of stuff that is also hidden in the game that explains other things that are going on. Such as Dolas ends up going to some event with his mother and some chemicals get released that end up killing everyone cept for Dolas who starts getting "visions" of the future. He goes off now knowing what he must do and starts this whole thing. Namoi knows that the VHOLE drive will destroy the moon, as do many others, and she tries to stop it but it then forced to become the PA of the Tiqqun

Quote from Naomi from the game it's self:

You know what you are guilty of! Your false promise of hope and salvation amongst the stars will ruin us. You preach about visions of paradise but in reality, you have hastened our destruction. But no more Vanir! The veil has been lifted and the UN know everything.

They have learned of Batista's warped ideology and the heavy casualties sustained during de-cryonization. They understand the true purpose of Munchi's clinics and the products of his "rehabilitation programme". They have witnessed first-hand the fanatical devotion of Barjaville's followers.And they will end you. With my help.

If you will condemn humanity, I'll make sure you serve penance.Nihei never believed in this monstrous project.

Even poor Leira, your greatest asset, was afraid to finish the Vohle because she knew what you would use it to do. (note: Leira Fräus, inventor of the Vohle Engine.)

But you refused to listen to her.You seduced Emma with your talk of deliverance.

You used her knowledge to develop the most perverse surveillance system ever imagined!

I know what awaits me now...An echo of my consciousness locked inside a metal tomb...

Reconfigured to serve and obey... I designed the P.A. to be neutral, rational extensions of our administrators' personalities.

But they have become nothing more than slaves in your twisted machine.

Damn you Vanir, I hope they eat you alive.

Note: Vanir is Dolas, in case you forgot. Also "Dolas" stands for the spirit of trickery, cunning, deception and treachery in Greek Myths. Very relevant as drawing from myths comes up a lot if you look into it.

Interesting, if you look up the Greek name Ixion you get:

Ixion, in Greek legend, son either of the god Ares or of Phlegyas, king of the Lapiths in Thessaly. He murdered his father-in-law and could find no one to purify him until Zeus did so and admitted him as a guest to Olympus. Ixion abused his pardon by trying to seduce Zeus’s wife, Hera. Zeus substituted for her a cloud, by which Ixion became the father of Centaurus, who fathered the Centaurs by the mares of Mount Pelion. Zeus, to punish him, bound him on a fiery wheel, which rolled unceasingly through the air or, according to the more common tradition, in the underworld.

[Foxador]

The devs did share some lore behind this game and the weirdness behind it IF you looked at their short training videos on youtube and also look at the quotes in the tech tree

Here's an example from their Vol. 2 DOLOS training video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqC2LiUy2bk

This comes up at around 54 seconds into the video along with showing the moon exploding for a second or less

Vanir attended the darxan site with his mother in 2028. Andrea had orchestrated a public show of solidarity with _____ following the rampant criticism within the scientific community of the proposed ______. the planned demonstration went catastrophically wrong when the unpredicted behavior of the ___ generated a _____ in reaction with several chemical products stocked at darxan. Following the ____, Vanir and __ were found by responders nearby. though unconscious, they were unharmed. Having considered the historical reports on the accident, it seems a mystery to me as __ they Survived __ .

There are innumerable documents, countless interviews and papers published between when Vanir took over the company and now. despite this, i can point directly to the path that has brought us here; the change in __ convictions to those of a mystic. Vanir talking of Darxan like a moment of enlightenment and inspiration rather than the tragedy that is was. The formulation of that damn Lunaciyan theory and Henri standing up at the UN convention, heedless of warnings .

Do not mistake me, I am in accord with the views of the Marduk council. what we face here is insurmountable, an exit strategy is needed. i am just terrified of the vehicle that will take us there __________ really place our trust in Niheil? Stanford?
It is ridiculous