A Summer's End - Hong Kong 1986

A Summer's End - Hong Kong 1986

auroraboros Feb 17, 2021 @ 1:10pm
2
Consent Issues in A Summer's End
CW: sexual assault

Some background first: I initially played this on my own with an undownloaded Adult Patch. I had an absolutely incredible time, and nothing really struck me as unsavoury. I was so excited about the game that I showed it to someone else, and we started playing through it together. It was immediately after Michelle’s first visit to Sam’s apartment that my friend (who is a survivor of sexual assault) broke down in tears, because so many things about the encounter didn’t read as consensual. After some closer examination, I can see why.

A) At no point in the lead up to the kiss does Michelle give any explicit indication that she wants to be kissed. In this first encounter, she’s vague at best.
B) In the image, Sam is pinning Michelle against the window. Michelle’s body language reads as trapped, and her face appears sullen and furtive.
C) Michelle’s inner monologue is about focusing on anything besides Sam’s advance, listening to all the various noises outside. It really seemed like she was dissociating from the event, which is common among victims of sexual assault.
D) Michelle leaves in a rush, due to a “fight or flight” response. This is symptomatic of PTSD.

My friend couldn’t handle any more after that, but since I had discovered this subtext through them, I decided to play through the rest of the game again with the Adult Patch turned on this time. This is where I ran into the worst instances of non-consent, particularly in Michelle’s second visit to Sam’s apartment. Michelle resists practically every step of the way. On multiple instances, she asks Sam to stop. Sam disregards her requests, insisting that she wants to show her love while showering her with compliments. I can understand how, in the mind of someone who hasn’t experienced sexual assault, it may seem like Sam is being really kind to her. But the fact is that Sam is being very coercive in this scene, and it doesn’t matter how nice one’s words are. When someone asks you not to touch them, you STOP. No questions asked. No grey area. Just don’t. This scene is also written using some “forceful” language, which compounds the issue.

In the third visit to Sam’s apartment, Michelle’s demeanour changes significantly and it’s tonally strange. In isolation, the scene works and comes off as quite sweet, because at this point they’re far more comfortable with themselves and each other. But without any sort of acknowledgement on Sam’s behalf for her behaviour, I felt kind of gaslit as a player, and the way Michelle profusely apologizes when Sam was the aggressor is just... off.

I think on my first playthrough it was a lot easier to look past these more questionable moments because I really appreciate both of these characters and understand how difficult their situation is. Michelle’s attraction to women is only crystallising during these events, so of course she’s struggling to reconcile societal expectations of her while also having no frame of reference as to how to act. As a character, it makes complete sense for her to be confused, and wary, and noncommittal. Conversely, Sam is a manic-pixie-dream-girl-adjacent figure, who’s prerogative is to push Michelle out of her comfort zone a little bit. I just want to make it clear that their dynamic makes sense. Their narrative makes sense. I understand why this story works as well as it does. I’m certainly not saying their arc is trash, because most of the time I find their relationship truly beautiful and worth celebrating. I just really, really wish the execution had been a little more refined when it comes to consent. It wouldn’t need a drastic change. Just a few positive affirmations from Michelle would’ve went a long way. Clear communication is an extremely underrated and under-utilized quality in the romance genre.

That’s it.
Congrats to Oracle and Bone for creating a wonderful piece of queer fiction. It was dreamy, gorgeous and heart wrenching. I hope to hear any thoughts they may have on the issues I’ve called attention to.
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Akira Feb 21, 2021 @ 5:44am 
Moral of this story: do NOT play sex related novels with a friend who is a survivor of sexual assault, right? Nobody else have seen anything weird with the main characters behaviour so far.
Alcyion May 4, 2021 @ 2:34am 
I agree with you. A lack of a no is NOT consent. I found these parts to be somewhat triggering as well. Fear can cause you to freeze up in the moment. Silence is not consent. Coming back to a relationship does not mean consent in the moment of the act. Consent in later acts does not mean there was always consent in previous acts.
Cammy May 5, 2021 @ 4:51am 
If you only started playing from that moment on, your friend had no clues about the emerging (and badly assumed) feelings of Michelle for Sam... And in such circumstances, I understand why she reacted like that...

I felt Michelle more resistant to herself than to Sam at that very moment, and Sam (who seems to be very intuitive) probably understood that for a while. Even if Michelle sincerely wanted to, I'm not sure she would have allowed herself to be kissed, if Sam had "asked her permission".
Was this kiss "abusive" for that? I personnaly don’t think so... Because here, this ill-consented initiative of a kiss triggers a beautiful story, instead of a drama.

Based on my own experience, many beautiful relationships begin with the bold initiative of an "unsolicited" kiss.
But of course, it also happens to be a very contentious behavior in some bad individuals - that can for sure lead to serious abuse, as your friend can testifie...

Even if Sam is self-confident, détermined, and even slightly conquering and impulsive, her behavior didn’t strike me as excessively disproporional here... To me, this kiss was a sensual declaration of all Sam’s hopes and desires towards Michelle - a clumsy invitation to freedom... And honnestly, I have absolutely no desire to "ruin" this good vibe about this kiss by considering it differently.

It’s obviously inevitable that everyone will differently interpret this, based on their own past experiences and wounds...
I personally cried out all my body's tears in front of ASE because it awakened so much buried memories (including very bad ones). But at no time the experience seemed negative to me...
Because it wasn’t MY story, but THEIRS.

Rather unclear moments like this kiss are a common part of reality... Rejection, abandonment or grief are also very hard times discussed in this game too. 'A Summer's End' is full of sweet AND hard times, it's not a fairy tale. and that is precisely what makes this story so credible and poignant in my opinion...
So obviously, the perception of this kiss can be perceived as a good OR a bad thing - according to the personal interpretation of each one. But should this moment be 'changed' for that?

The only responsible is the one who inflicted these traumas and injuries on your friend, to the point of negatively influencing each of her intimate feelings (including the perception of this scene, which inevitably becomes very evocative and painful for her)... But if I may, the game had strictly nothing to do with it.
I can only sympathize, and associate myself with the wise and prudent advice given by Akira in the very first response...

Take care!

:treasure_Heart::Treasure_Heart::Treasure_Heart:
Last edited by Cammy; May 11, 2021 @ 5:28pm
Rhia Sep 5, 2021 @ 2:59am 
While I can understand the points you are making and by no means am I diminishing the trauma of sexual assault, I think that what you are experiencing is the limitations of the VN medium. You have to think of them like short stories, the author has to get to the point quick and resolve in a limited span of time.

Most VNs are told in short impactful scenes (when well written) where there is not a lot of space for long drawn out build up. both because it can be exhausting to code in all those scenes and create the artwork but also a lot of the readers/players have short attention spans and will click through a lot of fluff. So the better writers tend to expect the reader to suspend some disbelief or take some things as given. It is expected for you as the reader to fill in some of the gaps with your own feelings. Otherwise this VN for example would rival open world games for play time while you read through so much detail and exposition and inner monologing.

So things like longer scenes where we see the characters grapple with the minutiae of coming to terms with huge revelations dont always work as easily as they would when writing a novel. The game takes place over the course of several months even though it feels like its just a couple days.

In this case what I saw in the scenes was different from what you did, ill list out a few so you see what i mean. This is all from my perspective only and not me telling you why you are wrong. This may include spoilers so fair warning

First the players

1- Michelle - there is a lot of her to unpack, more than I can do justice to here but the bottom line is Michelle is the avatar for a lot of women (and men) who were brought up in conservative homes/environments and were never even allowed the luxury of exploring their own needs/wants. She lives with a mother who has total control over her life, who has dominated her every waking moment and set her on the "acceptable" path. Michelle has never experienced anything outside of that. Work, find a husband, have babies is her lifes path and all she has been allowed to experience. Meeting Sam explodes all of that. It starts Michelle on a path of self realization. Michelle has led a life of work, avoiding relationships with traditionally acceptable partners (or any for that matter) and claiming she was focusing on her career, thats almost a trope for closeted lesbians its such a common plot point.

2- Sam - At first she comes off as this brash and in control, totally got it all figured out character, through the bulk of the story, she is shown as leading the way and taking Michelle with her. The thing is she ISN'T anywhere near as confident as Michelle's perspective see her, we see that after the Rewind scene. Sam is just as nervous and very much not the least confident about how she feels with Michelle other than she falls hard for her (again Love at First sight is more of a product of the limitations of VN writing than intentional).

The Scenes-

The First Kiss- While Michelle may have not given many indications on how she feels, she has gone out to dinner with Sam , she has gone to a club with her, had drinks with her etc, so there is some groundwork laid for Sam to misread the situation (or not as the case is later revealed) and go in for a kiss while they are in an intimate setting. This is more awkward teen first romance than Sam being a leering predator. I get the impression that Sam is not as experienced as Michelle's perspective might lead you to believe. Sam is comfortable in being a lesbian, but she is not confident enough about her interactions with others to develop the arrogance needed to straight up force herself on Michelle. In fact its shown later on that Sam was just absolutely as terrified of her feelings as Michelle was confused about her feelings. The inner monologue shows that Michelle did not feel like she was assaulted, she felt confused about why she didnt hate what happened, but nurture took over and she forced herself back into the proper character she had been playing all along. The consent issue here would derail the scene and the emotional impact. What happens is basically one awkward woman misreading the signals (or again not) and kissing another who rather than feeling violated, feels confused. The point of the scene is to be awkward because both people involved are way out of their comfort zones dealing with new feelings.

The Beach Day- Here we see Michelle starting to slowly come to terms with her feelings. Its a long scene and I wont unpack all of it, just suffice to say that this was the "realization" phase of the story, where Michelle started to come to terms with her wanting more from Sam than friendship (also due to VN/Short story limitations this is more rushed than it would have been in a novel), They even address the First Kiss awkwardness and Sam apologizes iirc. Pretty much proving my point before

The First Time- Michelle straight up asks to stay the night, she doesnt want to go home, shes realized or started to that she loves Sam, she desperately doesnt want to night to end. Sam iirc DOES ask permission this time, the awkwardness with which they both proceed to spend the night together is not a product of reluctance on either part or lack of desire or forced events. its a product of them both afraid of the minefield they have stepped into.

The Rewind- this is integral to pulling the curtain back on Sam, seeing her for who she really is, not a confident lesbian determined to have Michelle at all costs. shes vulnerable and just as lost with her feelings as Michelle is, she just isnt lying to herself about how she feels, her lost way is more in terms of what to do and how to convince Michelle to be honest with herself. Sam is not a predator, she is devastated when Michelle leaves. in the "bad" ending she even leaves Hong Kong if I understand correctly, to get away from the hurt. Thats not something a person who has no respect for consent or boundaries does. That is a person dying inside after losing the love of her life.

The second Time- When Michelle runs away this is not because she felt violated by Sam, this is because all her life she has been told that what she feels is wrong, what she feels is immoral and dishonorable. again a VERY common thing for young queer people to experience. She knows how she feels, she did not get tricked into bed with Sam, she wanted to be there, but her mind-control/upbringing tells her its bad and wrong so she runs away and tries to pretend it never happened. She is miserable and unhappy the whole time, she tries to subvert her feelings by going to dinner with Joey and the moment she sees Sam everything changes, the walls come down, she realizes how much she missed her, how she feels about her and how desperately she doesnt want to be without her, that is why she chases after her. The scenes that follow are 100% consensual. hell Sam even asks her several times what she wants.

I have played quite a few VNs over the years and there are MANY MANY MANY that dont even try to hide the whole lack of consent issue, hell some of them that is the whole point. This game does not in any way, from my perspective, step wrongly in that department. Awkward moments during life altering realizations are the heart of this game. Sam is as lonely and scared as Michelle is when they first meet. they both make missteps getting their relationship off the ground. but at no point where either being predatory.
Last edited by Rhia; Sep 5, 2021 @ 7:30am
mateo319 Sep 8, 2021 @ 10:12pm 
Michelle is constantly battling between following this brand new feeling of her relationship with Sam and shutting it out completely. Like Rhia points out, by the time Sam kisses her, Michelle has not only met Sam but actively sought her out after work! They've had a long date, and a lot of conversation. It's been hours, she's in Sam's apartment late at night on a work night! I think back to what Cecilia says to Michelle on Saturday morning: "Who are you fooling?"

I think Michelle putting herself in these situations should be understood by the reader as part of her agency. Her weak protestations seem suited more for her own plausible deniability as opposed to a genuine lack of consent. She also is constantly struggling to find words to express herself in these situations, even though she wants to move forward. At worst she is vague when Sam asks her direct questions, like with the first kiss. It can certainly be read that although she didn't answer verbally, Michelle communicated non-verbal consent.

One added clarification, like Michelle saying "I could not answer Sam, but I wanted her to kiss me," would make this sort of thing explicit in the first scene. In the second, Michelle is torn between logic and emotion, but explicitly states time with Sam is what she wants to explore.

Of course, the reader can play Michelle as almost as direct as Sam, or much more reserved, even in complete denial. Those choices also impact how the scenes read. While there are options to address OP's concerns, I also find it difficult to be hard on Oracle and Bone on this point.
bminty Dec 4, 2022 @ 1:53pm 
I deleted a comment I made after reflecting more on this. I agreed with the non consent but included invalidating arguments and personal projections irrelevant to the original post. I apologize for my lack of understanding and think it was a poor contribution to this discussion, especially as it is a very sensitive and important issue. I also agreed with Alycion's comment, one instance isn't consented because Michelle gave consent to subsequent instances. Regarding the PTSD the OP included, it's true, there is nothing stopping the creators from revisiting the situation to show that Michelle had PTSD in the future.

At least there was an awkward apology for the kiss that shows that the game doesn't endorse non consent and it was a mistake. I think the game did the bare minimum just because of that. I think in real life, some people can struggle with apologies and the think the game is realistic in that sense that Sam is an imperfect character. If Michelle expressed more bother, I can imagine that Sam would have had an even greater apology.

Though I enjoy the passion patch scene, the consent issues with the biting and dirty talk are the worst part of the game. Sam could have brought it up before or just before engaging in any new activity during the scene. In the BDSM community, pre-agreement on boundaries is a standard and expands on safe practices to help people explore in a mutual, controlled and conscious way. I think we can only hope that Michelle does have some sort of non consent fantasy, but they haven’t found a healthier way to actually establish it in their sexual relationship. Honestly, it makes me sick because it’s never okay to make that assumption. It is not just sadistic and is truly harmful and dangerous to think this way.

If the creators will manifest true examples of consent, it would probably be very easy for them to show it through simple questions and answers. I'm interested in what they do in the future and hope they take everything into consideration.



--- Responding to some points from the comments ---

- In my original deleted comment, I stated that the narrative was not explicit enough that Michelle didn't want this, to try to make it sound that the non consent was unintended. My logic there was just empty and toxic. It would actually also be a misunderstanding the game because she clearly did not want that kiss and neither did Sam after the fact.

- Even if the game implied Michelle feared homophobia, it's not for Sam to decide to escalate it on a physical level and without consent. If anything, it actually makes it worse that it was non-consent AND she was unsure of her identity. Also, Michelle does seek out Sam, but again, nothing about her pursuit entitles Sam to be forceful with her. When Michelle is ready, it's her prerogative and anyone who really cares about her would be respectful of her psychological and physical safety.

- As someone who has been on both sides of the consent issue, there is no need to keep repeating what the storyline is and the intentions of the characters. My original deleted comment did the same thing and it was just going in circles about the events of the game. I honestly enjoyed reading some of the comments because their artful exploration of the characters. It just doesn't change the non consent so it's irrelevant. After coming back to this nearly two years later, it was more clear to me after reflecting again in my personal life. The instances of non consent are just non consent and it can be triggering and uncomfortable for people. Detracting from the fact that clear boundaries were not consented to may continue the hurt in the real world.

- Just because some incidences of non consent became okay with some in your personal life, the incident in itself isn't nullified just because the relationship became positive later. I think it is romanticizing non consent that you would include that Sam is giving an "invitation to freedom" to Michelle by forcing a kiss on her. Michelle very well could have agreed to a kiss in the future, if not then. I don't think that was Sam's intention and she apologized for it already.

- Regarding another comment, the lack of consent portrayal is also not a limitation of the VN medium. They just need to add a bit of dialogue that indicate consent. If they wrote a short conversation about it, I bet they could have gone back and copy and pasted it into their script or code in a few minutes before the game came out. I can't imagine that the developers would ever excuse any storytelling incident in the game by blaming it on the limitations of a VN, especially concerning a serious issue like consent.

- I am sad to see the insensitive and redundant comments basically saying "well that's your friends problem" the OP is just including their friend's reaction as an example because their experience and feedback matters. The developers care to serve the community with inclusiveness and that includes people who are survivors. It's a challenging topic to discuss, but opening up the conversation is beneficial to everyone.

*edits for many, many typos/grammatical errors
Last edited by bminty; Dec 6, 2022 @ 7:52am
auroraboros Dec 5, 2022 @ 5:37pm 
thank you for this, bminty. this was nearly 2 years ago now and I don't feel like rereading every single comment again but I remember feeling very disheartened after posting my thoughts. People seemed keen to go on the defensive and make excuses rather than think critically about what I was actually addressing. Like, maybe that sort of thing *is* expected in the visual novel space, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discourage that standard. I appreciate the way you stewed on it for some time and came back with additional perspective. I've encountered some instances of non-consent myself since I wrote this post and the issues I brought up here only seem to resonate stronger.
bminty Dec 6, 2022 @ 1:18am 
Thank you so much for your kind words on my reflection. I came back to this because I was recently ruminating on when I regrettably violated consent several years ago, then remembered this post.

I think overall a lot of my comment and others are just lengthy reiterations on a point you actually already covered, in that the narrative made sense with one reserved character and one pushy character. It's just besides the your main point about non consent. I hear you that I also needed to understand more critically instead of jumping to defensiveness, so thank you for identifying that. I hope others will take example of this as well. I'm going to edit my second comment to include a criticism of my own deleted comment. Also, I agree that it should be discouraged because these portrayals are probably why the issues are so rampant now.

Thank you for bringing awareness to your encounter experiences and I hope you've recovered well from them. I also had an incident with a medical professional weeks ago. Your passionate thoughts are comforting. I admire and appreciate your solidarity. Thank for your time and energy to explain, auroraboros. I sincerely appreciate hearing from you and benefited greatly in clarity from this discussion. Thank you so much.
Last edited by bminty; Dec 6, 2022 @ 7:58am
SunsetApex Dec 15, 2022 @ 12:18am 
I could’ve sworn I contributed to this discussion back in 2021, but evidently I didn’t. Either way, I’m posting now to agree that I found some of the framing around consent…questionable in this story to the point that I stopped playing/watching and haven’t gone back since, which sucks because I was absolutely adoring it up to that point. I remember coming to its Steam page to see if anyone else had brought up similar feelings and seeing this thread right at the top.

I’m sorry for some of the responses you‘ve received here, auroraboros, and want you to know that your friend’s feelings are absolutely valid. SA victims should get to enjoy romantic stories, too.
Last edited by SunsetApex; Dec 15, 2022 @ 12:19am
Avalanche Feb 4, 2023 @ 6:21am 
I think it has something to do with her first time with the same gender in the time period when it was so frowned upon, i think it still is in Japan? unless i am wrong, if i am feel free to correct me.

Ultimately, constant consent confirmation can be a mood killer, especially for the woman, for me, all she has to do is say 'stop' and then try to push me away from her, that is fine, but constantly asking is annoying to women (after the first time) and tiring for the men. (after the first time).

I tend to not bother with relationships or romances at all in the real world, since its just not worth the hassle.
Cori Apr 23, 2023 @ 3:16pm 
Well, thanks for starting this discussion. I ditched the VN. A pity, but I don't want support this kind of portrayal or get triggered. Fact is some people are sensitive to this kind of "blurred lines" regarding consent and it is questionable at best.
keal Apr 30, 2023 @ 7:39pm 
I know this thread is old, but I just played the game over the last week and finished it yesterday. I'm a guy. My ex, who is still in contact with me, left me because she wanted to move away. She was abused by another man, and now she is living happily with a woman. When I met her again with her new partner, I saw how peaceful and mindful they were to each other, much like Sam and Michelle. I told her I was playing this game, and she went and got the game, and played it with her partner. They loved it and said they cried happy tears through the whole thing, and they got both endings and I asked her if she had any problems with the intimate scenes (after seeing this thread). She said no, that Sam was battling her desires for Michelle, so while being forceful at times, she was always mindful of Michelle's reactions. She said it was like a math equation. Following the scenes through, Sam was always careful not to go beyond a certain point, always paying attention to Michelle's reactions. She said she had no problem, and it didn't trigger her in any way. She placed full trust in Sam's intentions to make sure that Michelle enjoyed the moments as much as she did. If she didn't push forward, Michelle would never open up. I'm not saying the OP is wrong, but my ex pointed out that everyone deals with abuse in their own way, and moving forward, trying to live a better life, is the way she lives, and she sees this game as nothing but a realistic depiction of what happens when two people are alone. She feels it was handled in this game tastefully, and with a lot of dignity and respect between the characters. Personally I love this game, and my ex loves it too. Just our opinions to add to this thread.
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Date Posted: Feb 17, 2021 @ 1:10pm
Posts: 12