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But, yeah, I'm pretty sure DBFZ doesn't have infinites. Even regular TODs are a bit rare there and that's one of the main reasons why matches take way longer.
You're right, it's very different when I see a character cancel out of the same combo 4 times in a row and juggle me until I'm dead with no way to escape instead of when they do that infinitely because... I guess the game's mechanics allow it? Is that the argument?
There's counter mechanics in the game- the Megazord stuff makes for a perfect combo-breaker/counter-breaker system of meter burn that by definition means it's not free and is still way better to hold onto, and yet it's the most obtuse thing that basically in the time I've seen exists to get you Happy Birthday'd by mashing your assist buttons while blocking and doesn't have any setup for combos from that, and for the computer in arcade mode to say "nah, ♥♥♥♥ you".
I have had almost my entire time in Ranked and seen the counter used three times TOTAL because that meter is 100% just for doing Big Huge Attacks and nothing more? TODs in DBFZ are way more precise and finnicky and absurd combo strings. TODs in this game are goldar hitting you off the ground, slamming you against the wall, knocking you down, and then *doing that 6 more times*. Same deal with RJ, it makes it feel like MMO combat where the answer is "Yeah, stop doing things different and go do that ♥♥♥♥ in training mode for 12 hours until you've got it reflexive". Y'know, stop playing the fighting game and go to school.
And if the training mode was not literally a dummy and nothing else, and actually had guided tutorials on both how to do these moves and how to avoid them, like *most other fighting games* now... I'd maybe feel less mad about it. Instead this feels like a game made by a bunch of MVC2 fanboys who don't understand why other games didn't do it the way that one did and are still just popping off over "MAGNETO DID THE THING AGAIN, CHARACTER DEAD".
The game honestly had one thing going for it, and that was ease of input making it a much more direct game about reads and counter reads instead of doing stupid, lengthy combo videos with a second participant who might get some good hits in if they're lucky, or do their own TODs.
There's a reason why MvC3 has the damage scaling on combos that it does. Even with MvC2, infinites - while very common - often gave way to resets because the damage scaling on long combos meant you needed to be consistent in your execution, or you'd drop the combo. For this game, and it's incredibly simplified controls and lack of damage scaling on long combos, it's just irritating and bad design. Comparatively, the ToD combos aren't even really hard to do, especially when it's infinitely looping the same few hits over and over again. It doesn't require the same effort to pull off as other games.
The best way I can describe it is that it feels like it's made for people who want the fantasy of looking as good as Justin Wong when they Twitch stream their gameplay, but without all the effort and hours of hard work Justin put in to get as good as he is in MvC2. No need to think or be good at the game, just look up a combo video on Youtube for Chun-Li's infinite, muscle-memory that, and keep trying that until you land a hit, taking whatever punches in the process until you do, because whatever damage you take is immaterial since the minute you land just one hit to start said combo, it's all over and in your favor. Unfortunately, that - to me - kills the spirit of the game. To piggy-back off of what META said in the above post, the game really is at its best when it plays as a more direct game about reads and counter-reads, like it's the way the core design of the game is MEANT to be... but then the game totally allows for the ToD shenanigans and that, to me, completely gets in the way of what feels like the game's core design, just to please MvC2 fanboys who want their Justin Wong fantasy.
What's most depressing is that this could totally be fixed, and very easily. The game DOES have a juggle meter in the training mode, which creates the implication that there's a limit to how long you can continuously juggle someone before the combo supposedly gets dropped. Unfortunately, it's not scaled to actual gameplay. All they'd need to do is increase the rate in which that meter gets filled, tie it to damage-scaling for longer combos, and ensure that so long as there's consistent damage output, that meter can't be magically reset to 0 by swapping characters mid-combo. But, this would never happen, and it's depressing because the devs seem to be fine with ToD combos that kill the spirit of the game.
Someone needs to remind them that MvC2's infinites did lead to resets, and required much more skill for consistent damage output due to scaling. This not only made it flashier to watch, and gave players that power fantasy, but also allowed for more trades and epic comebacks which are also very fun to watch. This game could be so much better if there was a way to break out of ToD combos and infinites, even from a spectator perspective, because we can have no "moment #37"-like epic comeback stories if the gameplay at higher levels just turns into "OMEGALUL I hit you first, go make a sammich and come back when the match is over,". To a certain degree, it does make me lose quite a bit of respect for the pro player base of this game, since it makes me feel like Daigo could lose to a player of lesser skill simply for getting juggled by an easy-to-pull-off combo by a lesser player putting in less effort, without having any way to get out of that. Resets back to neutral can be exciting for the game, and I'm vehemently disappointed the devs are fine with not allowing that.
Why the ♥♥♥♥ would you do these anyway? What is even the fun of fighting against an opponent if they literally can't do anything?
If this was a 1v1 fighter, and it was possible to lose the round or match based on one interaction with the opponent, then that would be very bad design. But if we're looking at a tag fighter, then a touch of death combo of any kind is just one character out of three, or 33% of your total team HP down.
When the game turns from a fighting game to a Kata (routine) game, then you destroy the purpose of a fighting game. And honestly I rather not waste my time trying to tippy toe my way in a fight that as soon as I'm touched the enemy will turn the game into just a video.
Fortunately KOFXV is coming which is nice to see a proper 3v3 fighting game coming out, unfortunately this season 4 will probably the last time I support this game because I'm getting tired of all of this TOD/Infinites (don't give me excuses when both lead to the same thing specially when supports just leads to extension of combos and prolonging the combo string) routines that remove the "fighting" aspect of the game.
You are the tag-fighter equivalent to the person who tries to play Dark Souls like it's Devil May Cry, and then says the game is "bad" because it does not cater to your expectations.
TODs and infinites are very different. Three touches to win a match / round is reasonable. Using supports to support longer combos is one of the major reasons they're there.
KOF15 is not a "proper" 3v3 game. You'll just have problems in KOF when one player builds a lead that keeps getting bigger and bigger through the rounds.
Don't bother trying to speak reason with the Canadian. His head is too full of maple syrup to even listen.
I could see your point if it took away 100% of your HP, but not 33%.
And as for the "but think of how fast your Megazord meter is filling" excuse, that doesn't help at all because it is all too easy to keep an opponent's Megazord from actually doing anything after they hit the call button - just keep them on the defensive until the meter runs out. I've been on both sides of the Megazord denial fence since getting this game a few weeks ago.
But yeah... getting multiple pvp matches in a row where the other player lands the first hit and then spends the rest of the bout playing keepie-uppie with my fighters to the point where the only time my guys touch the ground after the first second is when they die, really does make me question why I bother?