Resources getting stuck in device inputs and outputs

[moira.lachesis]

I am feeding all machines via conveyor. It sits at the same level as the machine to be fed, resources falling into the machine from above. In some cases, the resources sit on the very edge of the device, instead of falling in. In very rare instances, they sit right at the output without falling off.

It is most common with sorters, but i have also seen it happen with gem compressors and harvesters. Some claim it only happens when saving, but that is not the case. If I have enough resources coming in, I can see it happen every couple seconds.

Is this behaviour intentional? Some kind of congestion feedback? Though if it is, I don't get why it even happens at low flow rates, just less often. I can't prevent it with higher fall height and I can't use mergers to transport resources over the edge, as these need to sit on belts. Duplicating the entire machinery would just spread it out, making maintenance even worse. I',m unsure how to fix it.

[Klandor]

It's a known issue. Things that help:

1. Try to have the Raw Resources DROP into the Smelter, Logic Smelter, or Gem Compressors. One thing to try (I haven't needed to try this recently, so I don't know if it's been patched in or patched out) is to use a Connector Hook to try bumping the Resources upwards fractionally and then dropping into the S/LS/GC. I'll look up the formal name of the component next time I go into the game, but they're for use bringing a Conveyor in from the side of a Straight Conveyor or from the blocked side of an Right/Left Conveyor. On Bastion Island, they're available in the Conveyor Shop in Bridgepour (and possibly in the Shop at Icehelm).
   
2. DO NOT use Funnels. In theory, Funnels are designed to center and guide Resources to a device below them. Unfortunately, in Hydroneer, they don't work well and tend to exacerbate this situation. I have successfully used Funnels, but I've also had them make the situation worse.
   
3. Do not leave a operating Mine unattended. Unless your production level of Dirt and Raw Resources is low, do not leave the area of your Mine for ANY reason. Even to "quickly pop out to get a single component" could cause a clog. This is a latency issue for things outside of Render Distance. The Dev's have occasionally looked into this issue in the past, but have not fully resolved it. Just know it's better than it used to be.
   
4. It's best to turn off the Mine before Saving and Quitting to Desktop. On restart with a busy Mine, it's possible for Dirt or Raw Resources to collide BEFORE the Conveyors anti-collision "power" engage, causing a clog. It won't happen every time, but the busier the Conveyor, the more likely it is to happen.

That's a summary of the most likely reasons why such clogs happen or what to do to avoid Clogs. At any sign of FPS drop, turn off your Mine and patrol the whole length, looking for Dirt that's falling/fallen off the Conveyor or a Clog that has gotten started.

I ALWAYS design my Mines such that I can turn off ALL the Drills, but leave the Conveyors/Harvester(s)/Sorters/Smelters/Gem Compressors running, thus allowing the Mine to clear through, before turning off the Master Water Supply Valve to Save and Quit.

[moira.lachesis]

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, but as already mentioned in the OP I am already doing all these things / they don't help.

If this is a latency issue, it is horrible programming. I can have the game running at 60 FPS and see it happen right before my eyes every couple seconds. I will try 120 FPS and increase render distance, though I doubt this will prevent it when I am just turning around.

[prtmh]

Gravity is your friend. Don't put machines level with conveyors. Let the conveyors be a block higher than the smelters or compacter's and let the items Drop in.
Edit: Exceptions are , Drills can dump onto conveyors at the same level Ok even at max pressure. Auto smelters can output onto conveyors at the same level. And lastly , harvesters can handle conveyors on the same level going in and coming out. Ah , gravity thou art a wonderful thing. :)

[moira.lachesis]

I wish it was that simple. As stated earlier, I have already tried that, thinking the same thing. But the resources simply don't fall, so it doesn't matter what height they don't fall from, they just float one level higher. It also doesn't help with resources getting stuck directly in the machine, particularly the output slot.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3416787706

[moira.lachesis]

So, I ran the game at 150 FPS. And the issue completely vanished. The machines also didn't care which height the conveyors were.

I noticed a blunder that might have thrown off the engine, which was an FPS limiter in the graphics driver (on top of the game itself). Initially that was set as low as 24 FPS. But even when both game and driver were both set to 144 FPS the issue still occured. After turning off all limiters, the issue was gone.

So yes this is clearly a latency issue, and any slow frame can cause it, which I would call a bug. I understand if slow frames cause imprecision, but floating resources are not imprecision, they somehow get forgotten by physics entirely.

[Klandor]

There is one other thing that can trigger this issue and that's low Water Pressure. All Water in Pipes have a Pressure. The highest Water Pressure in a Pipeline occurs at two "places". One is at the exit from the Intake Pipe and the other is at the output of a Pressure Tank that has a Shard or a Shard Bar in it. For every segment of Pipe after those "two" points, the pressure drops.

It's generally NOT a good idea to mix Pipes in a Mine, as the Water Pressure from a Cloutium Intake Pipe exceeds the maximum Water Pressure of an Iron Pipe and creates a leak at the interface. It does not damage the Pipe, but it creates a noise and a visual effect. The solution is the place Pressure Tanks with a Shard or Shard Bar at regular intervals in your pipeline (my personal preference is to have it every 8 to 12 segments of Pipe. This is very easy in a Drill Pipeline, as there are regular gaps between Drills. It's more difficult in the Conveyor Pipeline, as Conveyors cannot be placed on top of Pressure Tanks. They can go OVER a Pressure Tank, but not on top of them. I'll find a screenshot of what I mean an post it....

[Klandor]

Here is an screenshot of how I place my Conveyors to go OVER a Pressure Tank to restore Water Pressure:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2988538686

Actually, looking closer, it's partially complete. The Straight Pipe after the Vertical Pipe is missing a Straight Conveyor. The end of that Pipe has a Cork in it and the Dirt is allowed to drop off the end of the Conveyor, back onto the Straight Conveyor on the Pipe coming off the Pressure Tank. I'll try to find a completed image and update this.

[Klandor]

Here's a better screenshot. It's old, but it still applies:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896104010

Underneath the Vertical Conveyor is a T-Pipe with an Elbow Pipe to make certain the Vertical Conveyor has Water. That can be seen more clearly in the first screenshot.

[moira.lachesis]

it's all very close to a fully upgraded cloutium intake and the conveyors are so fast I can hardly tell which direction they go - I assume that rules out low pressure. The pipe mismatch explains why my T1 drills make puffs x) The sorters have an iron flange as well but fortunately they don't do this.

[Klandor]

Sorter Conveyors do not have Pipes build into them. They're placed on Pipes that you install. Conveyors of ALL types depend on the Pipes they're placed on for Water Pressure. The higher the pressure, the faster they move. Higher Water Pressure also reduces (but does not eliminate) the chance of Clogs.

[moira.lachesis]

I am talking about a hand sorter. I don't have sorter conveyors yet. That sounds interesting, got to find that.

[prtmh]

Originally posted by moira.lachesis:

So, I ran the game at 150 FPS. And the issue completely vanished. The machines also didn't care which height the conveyors were.

I noticed a blunder that might have thrown off the engine, which was an FPS limiter in the graphics driver (on top of the game itself). Initially that was set as low as 24 FPS. But even when both game and driver were both set to 144 FPS the issue still occured. After turning off all limiters, the issue was gone.

So yes this is clearly a latency issue, and any slow frame can cause it, which I would call a bug. I understand if slow frames cause imprecision, but floating resources are not imprecision, they somehow get forgotten by physics entirely.

Yes, if the graphics driver was limiting at 24 frames then once you got the mine going it would drop even more. On my largest mine and my computer things start off at a solid 60 fps and as the mine gets cranked up the frames drop to around 18 fps. If I turn on any more drills and it drops below that I do start getting some of the random glitches like your'e describing. That mine is a T3 setup with 135 drills and can run for hours without a glitch. Sounds like you may have found your answer. Have fun with it.

[Klandor]

Most Pro Gamers, unless they have an EXTREMELY high end rig, will generally recommend that a *GAME* be limited to 60 FPS, if the game has that capability. 60 FPS is generally faster than the human eye can identify (so it shouldn't be visually identifiable., and it reduces the load on the GPU. The GPU can still pump out more FPS than that, but it saves power and reduces the drain across the whole computer if, AT THE PROGRAM LEVEL (as opposed to HW or OS level), you set the game to 60 FPS. There are known games that will pull MASSIVE FPS in the Menu screen unless it's limited to 60 FPS at the Game level...

Also, GPU's are generally used for Physics calculations, which can get EXTREMELY heavy in Hydroneer. Limiting the GPU to 60 FPS saves GPU capability for those physics calculations...

[Klandor]

If you're using the Hand Sorter, you'll want to upgrade to Conveyor Sorters in fairly quick order.

Originally posted by moira.lachesis:

I am talking about a hand sorter. I don't have sorter conveyors yet. That sounds interesting, got to find that.

If you're using the Hand Sorter, you'll want to upgrade to Conveyor Sorters in fairly quick order. They're not very expensive and, initially, you can deliver the Sorted Ore to Pans until you can afford Smelters. Both the Sorters and Smelters are in the next town over, so you're going to want to use the Truck to make the purchases and bring it back to Ember Cradle (the starting Claim). Initially, you only need 4 x Sorter Conveyors, one for each of the initial Ores. At EC, you're probably not getting Corestone and not that much Cloutium. I'd recommend turning your Cloutium into Bars and saving it, as you'll need as much as you can get when you go to purchase your next Claim and want to build a Tier 2 Mine.

[prtmh]

The pic above looks like Icehelm. The thing there is, better ore is in the back instead of just deeper down like the other properties. And yes, the hand sorters will drive you nuts.