More hard work than fun

[Blender McBiscuits]

I understand the no-inventory thing is novel and on purpose. But man I really really know now why games have an inventory. I spend most of the game lugging items back and forth. Yes I know what a pallet is. It doesn't solve the problem.

Digging out a mine is miserable. It takes far too many clicks (with the lvl II pickaxe), TNT is useless, and I can't afford a nuke. The game is just work, work, work, with so few rewards. Is it a labour on purpose, just to hide the fact there isn't that much content? And don't START me on accidentally picking up a drill, then it won't go back where it was. WHY!? Can we at least have a cancel button that leaves it where it is when you click by mistake?

Yes, I know about the construction hammer. But you don't use it til you've actually placed things where you want them. Talking of which... the 3D positioning is weird and temperamental.

I bought the game, this is my feedback.

[Klandor]

I've had issues where an object was placed (let's use a Miner as an example), piped, but didn't work. I removed it to check if it had Lava or Water Supply (depending on which Island one is on), but couldn't put it back. Generally, it was either the Pipe that supplied it getting in the way, or there was too much Snow under it (on Volcalidus the Miners a quite finicky about this) or there happened to be a forgotten Cork that was in the way... Generally, once located and removed, the Miner could be properly placed and the offending object would go properly into place. Yes, it's a hassle, but one can eventually get things to work. Sometimes, it just requires Saving, Quitting to Menu, and Reloading the Save (Reload, not Resume)...

[Blender McBiscuits]

Yeah, I mean what you've suggested might work, but it's still not much use that you have to do things like that. They shouldn't have launched a DLC til they'd finished getting the game working properly.

A "cancel" button, as in "forget I ever touched that object, no, Christ, I don't want to spend half an hour trying to get it back where it was and hooked up again, and end up re-doing half my mine just to get it to work for no bloody reason at all" button. That is, when you pick something up, you can press "cancel" and it goes back where it was. As if you'd never made the mistake of touching it.

Also we need an inventory. We'd done the experiment, it doesn't work, turns out inventories ARE a good idea. This is why bags and pockets exist in real life.

I only feel pleasure in the game when I've finally achieved something, usually having to fight the game the whole way. Most of the time it's a slog, and that's not good in a game. A challenge is fine, but it should BE a challenge! Not just slowness and inconvenience,

[cricri]

buy this and in 3 min you down to 1 lvl
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3220322004

[Arkane Wisdom]

you kinda invalidate your points by saying "yes i know there's..... but....." that in my mind says your not really using those items. Also you don't need to repeatedly click to mine with the pickaxe, just click and hold and away you go, the shovel is really only for the early stages of hand panning, later it's barely used except in specific cases (filling in a hole enough to rake it out, put a piece of dirt on the bottom of drills and such). as to the 3d positioning it's not as bad as you think the scroll wheel is a wonderful thing able to move the items closer or farther from you while placing. To the construction hammer, try right clicking, it makes anything you hammered down available to pick up again no need for advanced planning.

also like to add that carts and tractors are your best friend for moving many things at once since the items don't interact with one another, and the best part, you can put a cart in the back of a tractor. the carts can also be brought underground using the tunnels you make for you to get down into the mine. With just a smidgen of OCD and a rake you can square off your mines making it easier to set the carts down underground.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3238771437

and with a bit of judicious use of the ice thaw (or the mole with careful use) you can carve out a new mine fairly quickly this only took about 20 min tops and that was because i was trying not to cut through the ramp to the surface
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3238802463
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3238803985

[Zerschmetterling]

Well, about the Pickaxe, you don't have to keep clicking to dig. Just hold down mouse 1 and it will auto dig.

[Blender McBiscuits]

Originally posted by Arkane Wisdom:

"yes i know there's..... but....." that in my mind says your not really using those items.

No, my point is that using those items doesn't solve the problem satisfactorily. They're a compromise and still a pain in the arse. Walking is slow enough without dragging a pallet round, and you can only put so much, not enough, stuff on it. So a lot of play is walking back, and forth, and back again, and forth again, ferrying stuff round. There is zero fun in that, it's not creative, it's just pointless labour. Games have inventories, even if they're unrealistic. Just give our guy an invisible cart that doesn't slow me down, like other game inventories. Or very very big pockets.

I've discovered you can hold down the pickaxe to mine now, thanks though for pointing it out. Can't help thinking a little hint in the game would have helped that, there's Youtube videos where people don't get that for a long time.

as to the 3d positioning it's not as bad as you think

It's still bad enough!

I know the construction hammer can nail and un-nail things to the air. Still though some better system would help.

Of course I use vehicles. I didn't know you can load a cart onto a truck, but is that any better than a pallet?

I use the rake too, it's valuable. Again though it seems like the dev invented that as a hack, rather than solving the problem he gives us an item to "fix" it. Really the problem should be removed.

Mining with the pickaxe is WAY too slow and I can't afford a mechanical miner yet. There's a lot of manual mining you have to do first. Maybe we need another item in the form of a pickaxe that makes bigger holes. One for big holes and one for finishing details, if you like.

I don't have Volcalidus. Dunno if I will. As I understand it, the game has no ultimate point, so it's just more distraction before we realise that.

There's too much work in the game! Sure players often have to work, to achieve, in games. But carting stuff back and forth, slowly, shouldn't be it! Slowness shouldn't be a deliberate game method! It's satisfying to build my mines, but way too annoying to do it. There needs to be SOME challenge, but that might involve skill or creativity rather than just patience.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

[Gyo]

I bought this game under the impression it was meant to be 'work' and nothing else, are you sure you knew what you were getting into?

[Blender McBiscuits]

Seen it being played on Youtube. Looked like fun. It IS fun, just the fun is spaced out too much between bouts of walking everywhere, slowly, and doing grunt work shifting things about. That's not pleasurable, and it's not challenging either, it's purely boring, frustrating.

There's a guy who plays on Youtube uses the magic hat all the time because of how slow the game is. The game should have an inventory, but if you can give our attractive protagonist a pair of rollerskates, the game would be 3x better!

It ISN'T just work, there's achievement and creativity. It's just too far spaced out. Those bloody stairs in Icehelm, why do I need to go up 5 flights of stairs every time I buy something? Couldn't there be a lift, like there is at the entrance? It's just dullness, I shouldn't be hating stairs while playing a game. Maybe there's a mod that gives the guy a kick up the arse so he actually MOVES! Then again, mod managers are a terror of their own.

[Klandor]

Originally posted by Blender McBiscuits:

Seen it being played on Youtube. Looked like fun. It IS fun, just the fun is spaced out too much between bouts of walking everywhere, slowly, and doing grunt work shifting things about. That's not pleasurable, and it's not challenging either, it's purely boring, frustrating.

There's a guy who plays on Youtube uses the magic hat all the time because of how slow the game is. The game should have an inventory, but if you can give our attractive protagonist a pair of rollerskates, the game would be 3x better!

It ISN'T just work, there's achievement and creativity. It's just too far spaced out. Those bloody stairs in Icehelm, why do I need to go up 5 flights of stairs every time I but something? Couldn't there be a lift, like there is at the entrance? It's just dullness, I shouldn't be hating stairs while playing a game. Maybe there's a mod that gives the guy a kick up the arse so he actually MOVES! Then again, mod managers are a terror of their own.

As far as the Stairs in Icehelm go, I had gotten used to them for going UP. When I go down, though, I just skip them. I generally will be coming FROM the Shop, and I just run into the big room and JUMP off the upper walkway and land on the lower walkway into the Mine space of Icehelm. Either coming from the entrance or coming from the Shop, it's easy enough to do. ...and if you miss, you can still fairly easily get back into the Mining area...

[Blender McBiscuits]

Oh yeah. Or you can just jump over the banisters on the way down, or even fall through the grate. You can drop items through the grate too by pretending to place them, then let go. I know that. It's just getting UP them that's a right pain in the arse!

[Klandor]

Depends on where the objects are headed.

If you are headed to The Big Forge, then it does have to be run up the stairs. Just get an Agile Cart, load everything into it, and run it up the stairs.

If your headed outside, there are built-in Conveyors that you can place things on at the Claim Site in Icehelm and in The Big Forge room that will deposit things outside to the right of the entrance, when looking at the front of the building from outside. Additionally, you can deposit objects that are headed to the Claim Site on the Conveyor a little further to the right and it'll be deposited in the room outside the Claim Site. Yes, something going down to The Big Forge or coming up from the Claim to The Big Forge would be nice, but it doesn't exist...

[[UniR] SillyShibby]

Carts are a breeze against the pallets. Things stack on top of each other on pallets, but things get smashed into each other in carts, collision is turned off as soon as they rest :)

[Freakonomicon]

The game is fine as it is and we don't need another Minecraft clone