Endgame Questions - The Final Chapter.

[Lost]

Big thanks for the help in previous threads, have gone from WL600 to WL5000 in two days. Currently getting around 30b a run.

Still, a few nitty-gritty type questions remain.

1. Regarding skills, how should I be weighing points? Currently splitting most between True Colors and Traps. Have maxed Fury and Seeker Sense. A good amount in Bleeding, Leech and Crit. Some in Resonance.

Should I be investing more in leech, or keep on Traps/TC? Has anyone mathed this out?

Is Amplifiers worth many points? Should I lean into Resonance more?

2. Is there a breakpoint when I should be adding amps to manafarms, or should I be adding them as soon as it's viable? I tend to add them once my farm is at 15-19. Too early? Too late?

3. Is slow capped at 70%? Is there any way to get it higher? I could swear I saw it higher once...

4. Do rune bonuses do anything besides mana per wave/initial mana? These seem rather pointless if so, aside from frag farming runs.

Thanks!

[DSJ and Co.]

i don't know answers for 1 and 2 but

3. yes slow caps at 70%, no there is no way to get it higher

4. as far as i am aware, no, mana per wave is alright but +% initial mana really helps in getting a good setup going earlier for exp farming pretty sure

[Lost]

Originally posted by DarkShadowJ: HEAVENLY MAAAAAAAAN:

i don't know answers for 1 and 2 but

3. yes slow caps at 70%, no there is no way to get it higher

4. as far as i am aware, no, mana per wave is alright but +% initial mana really helps in getting a good setup going earlier for exp farming pretty sure

Initial mana wise, I haven't had problems. By wave 10 I've got my gem to a decent level, my initial manafarm up and a killgem capable of pushing things back.

[Marosh]

Hey hey (:

Originally posted by Lost:

1. Regarding skills, how should I be weighing points? Currently splitting most between True Colors and Traps. Have maxed Fury and Seeker Sense. A good amount in Bleeding, Leech and Crit. Some in Resonance.

Should I be investing more in leech, or keep on Traps/TC? Has anyone mathed this out?

Is Amplifiers worth many points? Should I lean into Resonance more?

If you really wanna know the best skillpoint investment, the Gemcraft discord did the math for it. They have an excel sheet for that. Hard to say, because the skill prio changes with more and more skill points.

WL5000, I assume 30k points after capping all important skills (5000*7 = 35.000; 5.000 for skills with cap). With 30k points left, it would be:

Leech: 145
TC: 134
Traps: 119
Crit: 55
Res: 41
Amp: 40

With ~WL20k, it would look like this (140.000 points left):

Leech: 315
TC: 272
Traps: 250
Amp: 145
Crit: 120
Res: 80

With ~WL50k (450.000 points left):

Leech: 555
TC: 465
Traps: 432
Amp: 350
Crit: 205
Res: 149

With ~WL100k (900.000 points left):

Leech: 785
TC: 641
Traps: 599
Amp: 540
Crit: 280
Res: 202

And even way later, Amp is more important than Traps or TC. But again, not my work. The 1e308 IQ channel is where the real math happens.

Originally posted by Lost:

2. Is there a breakpoint when I should be adding amps to manafarms, or should I be adding them as soon as it's viable? I tend to add them once my farm is at 15-19. Too early? Too late?

Add them early. The attack speed bonus is nice, even when the amp gems are low. Later, with decent amp skills, the special spread is really powerful. I don't go ham on amp gems early in a run. I upgrade them until I get speed capped. After that, I can still upgrade the trap gems fast. So upgrade the traps and if that slows down, scrap the current amp gems and build high mana gems right away for the amp. That saves a lot of 'U's.

Originally posted by Lost:

3. Is slow capped at 70%? Is there any way to get it higher? I could swear I saw it higher once...

That was changed few patches ago. They were capped at 90%, now they are only 70% :(

Originally posted by Lost:

4. Do rune bonuses do anything besides mana per wave/initial mana? These seem rather pointless if so, aside from frag farming runs.

Yep, pretty pointless with WL1000+. I mean, it's still nice to start with a higher enrage gem, but even mana farming at wave one nets more mana than the bonus could ever give you.

[Lost]

Originally posted by blauer153:

Hey hey (:

Originally posted by Lost:

1. Regarding skills, how should I be weighing points? Currently splitting most between True Colors and Traps. Have maxed Fury and Seeker Sense. A good amount in Bleeding, Leech and Crit. Some in Resonance.

Should I be investing more in leech, or keep on Traps/TC? Has anyone mathed this out?

Is Amplifiers worth many points? Should I lean into Resonance more?

If you really wanna know the best skillpoint investment, the Gemcraft discord did the math for it. They have an excel sheet for that. Hard to say, because the skill prio changes with more and more skill points.

WL5000, I assume 30k points after capping all important skills (5000*7 = 35.000; 5.000 for skills with cap). With 30k points left, it would be:

Leech: 145
TC: 134
Traps: 119
Crit: 55
Res: 41
Amp: 40

With ~WL20k, it would look like this (140.000 points left):

Leech: 315
TC: 272
Traps: 250
Amp: 145
Crit: 120
Res: 80

With ~WL50k (450.000 points left):

Leech: 555
TC: 465
Traps: 432
Amp: 350
Crit: 205
Res: 149

With ~WL100k (900.000 points left):

Leech: 785
TC: 641
Traps: 599
Amp: 540
Crit: 280
Res: 202

And even way later, Amp is more important than Traps or TC. But again, not my work. The 1e308 IQ channel is where the real math happens.

Originally posted by Lost:

2. Is there a breakpoint when I should be adding amps to manafarms, or should I be adding them as soon as it's viable? I tend to add them once my farm is at 15-19. Too early? Too late?

Add them early. The attack speed bonus is nice, even when the amp gems are low. Later, with decent amp skills, the special spread is really powerful. I don't go ham on amp gems early in a run. I upgrade them until I get speed capped. After that, I can still upgrade the trap gems fast. So upgrade the traps and if that slows down, scrap the current amp gems and build high mana gems right away for the amp. That saves a lot of 'U's.

Originally posted by Lost:

3. Is slow capped at 70%? Is there any way to get it higher? I could swear I saw it higher once...

That was changed few patches ago. They were capped at 90%, now they are only 70% :(

Originally posted by Lost:

4. Do rune bonuses do anything besides mana per wave/initial mana? These seem rather pointless if so, aside from frag farming runs.

Yep, pretty pointless with WL1000+. I mean, it's still nice to start with a higher enrage gem, but even mana farming at wave one nets more mana than the bonus could ever give you.

Interesting. So Leech is higher value than Traps, even with Traps yielding a 5% increase per point and attack speed boosts, affecting both damage and leech, opposed to Leech with 4%?

[Marosh]

Originally posted by Lost:

Interesting. So Leech is higher value than Traps, even with Traps yielding a 5% increase per point and attack speed boosts, affecting both damage and leech, opposed to Leech with 4%?

Leech has a little more than 4%. There is also the five step milestone. It's more like a 4.8%

But the real reason, why leech is higher, are amps.
You will hit the point, where the special spread from amps is +50% or more. If one amp supports 3 traps, you spread 150% combined specials to the traps. Or if one trap is supported by 2 amps, the trap gem will get 100% extra special. (assuming, that the amp gems have both the same level).

This is so powerful, that your amp gems will be actually higher than your trap gems... later.

And this whole game has one single bottleneck: mana.

[Lost]

Originally posted by blauer153:

Originally posted by Lost:

Interesting. So Leech is higher value than Traps, even with Traps yielding a 5% increase per point and attack speed boosts, affecting both damage and leech, opposed to Leech with 4%?

Leech has a little more than 4%. There is also the five step milestone. It's more like a 4.8%

But the real reason, why leech is higher, are amps.
You will hit the point, where the special spread from amps is +50% or more. If one amp supports 3 traps, you spread 150% combined specials to the traps. Or if one trap is supported by 2 amps, the trap gem will get 100% extra special. (assuming, that the amp gems have both the same level).

This is so powerful, that your amp gems will be actually higher than your trap gems... later.

And this whole game has one single bottleneck: mana.

Thanks. Actually going to begin a completely fresh run this evening, so I can enjoy the game without all the bugs, exploits and shenanigans on release. Let's see how long it takes to get back up there.

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by blauer153:

Originally posted by Lost:

Interesting. So Leech is higher value than Traps, even with Traps yielding a 5% increase per point and attack speed boosts, affecting both damage and leech, opposed to Leech with 4%?

Leech has a little more than 4%. There is also the five step milestone. It's more like a 4.8%

But the real reason, why leech is higher, are amps.
You will hit the point, where the special spread from amps is +50% or more. If one amp supports 3 traps, you spread 150% combined specials to the traps. Or if one trap is supported by 2 amps, the trap gem will get 100% extra special. (assuming, that the amp gems have both the same level).

This is so powerful, that your amp gems will be actually higher than your trap gems... later.

And this whole game has one single bottleneck: mana.

But...the trap bonus is applied to the amp bonus too, isn't it? so wouldn't the trap skill still need to be the higher *skill*?