Swarmlings kinda ruin the game

[Cheeky Valentino]

inb4 "git gud lol"

I went through about a third of the game before having to switch to chilling, at first I just thought the difficulty was higher than past games (I played the crap out of chasing shadows and labyrinth back on armorgames).

But after a few strategy changes I noticed the one wave that would screw me over was always some rando swarmling wave that always somehow managed to overwhelm my defenses and mess up the whole level for me.

"just build more towers lol"
a bunch of towers with lower gems means I cant take down the swarmlings of higher waves with the same numbers that are already problematic.
"Just use lanterns lol"
They reguire a big investment on the skill tree and a few on the field with high grades to keep up with the wave progression. and this is still early game so I dont have many skill points to spare.
"Just grind for 12 hours on your eariler levels and git gud lol"
I cant unlock new battle tactics to get more xp since theyre locked behind levels with yet again more bs swarmlings.

Idk if its a sudden leap in power for swarmlings ~wave 50 or the lack of solid skill point farming early on, but whatever it is has seriously tainted this game for me with a sudden huge wall to progression. which sucks since i've been a huge gemcraft for ~7ish years now.

[12345ieee]

10€ on "your skills are badly distributed".

[Cheeky Valentino]

Originally posted by 12345ieee:

10€ on "your skills are badly distributed".

How should they be leveled?

[12345ieee]

Depends where exactly you are in the game, what skills you have unlocked and what WL you are, your post is too vague to tell.

[Brainy]

Originally posted by 12345ieee:

Depends where exactly you are in the game, what skills you have unlocked and what WL you are, your post is too vague to tell.

^ that

[jwaldorf2]

The best defense I've found for swarmlings is poison gems inside traps. Set trap priority to "least affected by gem" so they don't hit the same monster twice. Swarmlings typically have low HP, enough to where one trap can kill a lot of them on it's own. Setup 2 or 3 but spread them out so that the swarmlings from trap 1 die before getting to your 2nd one. I'd suggest putting a few skill points in both your trap and poison gem skills. Another good way to deal with swarmlings is to set one of the gems in your towers to focus on swarmlings and then use the Beam skill. That should tear through most of your swarmling waves.

[Brainy]

we need his skills/wl/talisman set up, otherwise this is a blue shot here. since i played the game back then on release without chillmode till end i can not understand why he has such big probs with swarmlings, my big prob back then were the shadows bcuz my gems where actualy to low to reach them from their current position so i had to move them around a lot which fked up my killspeed and some of my runs were ruined bcuz of them, early game.

like many of the beginners / new GC players he def fked up his skill tablet, spended too much on the wrong skills and too much overall. Just like Bill said in another threat, this game is beatable with lvl 75.
so if you rly want our help, give us screens of your skills.

[Cheeky Valentino]

Originally posted by jwaldorf2:

The best defense I've found for swarmlings is poison gems inside traps. Set trap priority to "least affected by gem" so they don't hit the same monster twice. Swarmlings typically have low HP, enough to where one trap can kill a lot of them on it's own. Setup 2 or 3 but spread them out so that the swarmlings from trap 1 die before getting to your 2nd one. I'd suggest putting a few skill points in both your trap and poison gem skills. Another good way to deal with swarmlings is to set one of the gems in your towers to focus on swarmlings and then use the Beam skill. That should tear through most of your swarmling waves.

Solid advice, tyvm m8

[Quizer]

I'm also not a huge fan of the swarmling meta. I'm early enough that I don't yet have tools like the beam spell or poison gem skill, but the swarmling battle trait is unlocked early and it seems to be among the more palatable ones (the one that gives every monster layers of shield is just unusable until probably extreme late game). But even without the battle trait many maps have an excess of swarmling waves anyway. It's actually kind of obnoxious how much that is the case.

However, it's possible to get used to it. On maps where you have poison gems and traps, that seems to be the best strategy anyway for grinding XP, and it deals with swarmlings just fine. On maps where you don't, you have to spam like 6-8 towers with level 3 gems so you can handle swarmling waves without too many leaks.

I was wondering how exactly the "least affected by gem specials" priority works. It's nice to find out that it's pretty much tailor-made for poison trap use, so thanks for the tip!

BTW, does the "+??% bonus damage against swarmlings" talisman bonus even magnify poison damage?

[Bill Wilson]

Swarmlings are not a problem, just build more towers and use amplifiers effectively (ideally each amp should amplify all of your towers early on). You get more dps by having multiple weaker towers as long as the enemies have sufficiently low armor.

[√]

i seem to do just fine with most points into mana stream, a bit of fusion, about half of Resonance. i aways at least 1 or 2 tower on swarmlings, the next tower targeting least hit points. Paying attention to what gems your using is also very important.For example i usually avoid spending mana on leech gems cause their damage is the weakest. I usually keep leech gems around grade 2-3 and maximize crit, bleed, or slow when ever possible as gem socketed in towers due to decent damage.

Other than that if your still struggling i have no idea what's wrong.

[jwaldorf2]

Originally posted by Quizer:

I'm also not a huge fan of the swarmling meta. I'm early enough that I don't yet have tools like the beam spell or poison gem skill, but the swarmling battle trait is unlocked early and it seems to be among the more palatable ones (the one that gives every monster layers of shield is just unusable until probably extreme late game). But even without the battle trait many maps have an excess of swarmling waves anyway. It's actually kind of obnoxious how much that is the case.

However, it's possible to get used to it. On maps where you have poison gems and traps, that seems to be the best strategy anyway for grinding XP, and it deals with swarmlings just fine. On maps where you don't, you have to spam like 6-8 towers with level 3 gems so you can handle swarmling waves without too many leaks.

I was wondering how exactly the "least affected by gem specials" priority works. It's nice to find out that it's pretty much tailor-made for poison trap use, so thanks for the tip!

BTW, does the "+??% bonus damage against swarmlings" talisman bonus even magnify poison damage?

I also use "least affected by gem" for red and blue gems. I can keep most of the monsters on the map in these 2 debuffs by spacing a couple of these guys around in traps

[neonsilver]

Maybe I'm at an earlier point in the game, but so far in terms of skills I fared pretty well by focusing most skill points into my mana. So the skills that lowers the amount of mana you need for level up and increases the mana gain, as well as the skill that lowers the cost for the gems.
Additionally I have some points in damage increase and in traps.

I have unlocked the poison and armor tearing gem skill, so I have those always available in endurance mode and they are best in traps. The poison will usually take a big chunk out of the monsters health and is likely to kill swarmlings.
Since there is a diminishing return with the gem special effect, it's likely that you will get more if you add more traps instead of upgrading the gems, but since the more traps you have the more expensive it is to build more, you have to find the right balance.

I also have a lot of skill points unused and several talisman fragments to increase my starting mana (I think currently I'm starting always at level 3), the starting mana alone is a great help during journey mode.

[Bill Wilson]

Originally posted by neonsilver:

Maybe I'm at an earlier point in the game, but so far in terms of skills I fared pretty well by focusing most skill points into my mana. So the skills that lowers the amount of mana you need for level up and increases the mana gain, as well as the skill that lowers the cost for the gems.
Additionally I have some points in damage increase and in traps.

I have unlocked the poison and armor tearing gem skill, so I have those always available in endurance mode and they are best in traps. The poison will usually take a big chunk out of the monsters health and is likely to kill swarmlings.
Since there is a diminishing return with the gem special effect, it's likely that you will get more if you add more traps instead of upgrading the gems, but since the more traps you have the more expensive it is to build more, you have to find the right balance.

I also have a lot of skill points unused and several talisman fragments to increase my starting mana (I think currently I'm starting always at level 3), the starting mana alone is a great help during journey mode.

Not spending skill points is exactly how you hit a wall in the mid game (generally after getting the true colors skill) because you don't have enough strength to deal with the later waves of battles since your strength is too focussed on the start of the battle.

It is better to just spend them effectively and have enough initial mana to handle the first waves.

[neonsilver]

Originally posted by Bill Wilson:

Not spending skill points is exactly how you hit a wall in the mid game (generally after getting the true colors skill) because you don't have enough strength to deal with the later waves of battles since your strength is too focussed on the start of the battle.

It is better to just spend them effectively and have enough initial mana to handle the first waves.

Haven't reached that point yet, journey mode I can still get through and the majority of endurance levels I have done so far were just to get the stashes, so I usually get 2 or 3 levels from just adding a few battle traits and go as far as I can.
Though thanks for the hint.

[EliteGunm4n]

Based on some assumptions about where I first ran into issues I have some suggestions (if I am guessing wrong then ignore)

Dmg v armor - you may be hitting swarmlings without high enough dmg for their armor and not shredding it fast enough. Dedicated armor shredding spots or building shred into your main dmg gems will help (set to target highest armor/shield).

Talisman - There is handy guide somewhere about how to get the talisman bonuses. They make a huge difference.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1981650661
These bonuses will give you the initial damage to be able to enhance and specialize your defenses

Mazes - If the level allows, build a zigzag or maze to keep the enemies in your killbox as long possible (Have a sturdy defence for the next few waves before spending all your mana on walls)

Powerful gem vs many weak - I have found much greater success with 1 or 2 greatly empowered gems of the highest level I can reach over several areas with weaker gems. I usually use weaker gems in traps for specific effects to help my main killing gems. (i.e. slow and bleed) (Poison and armor shred can also be very good in traps or as part of your dmg gems

Hope this helps. These tactics have gotten me to F tile at WL 90ish.