The Level Cap

[Vesperas]

I'm really curious how people feel about the level cap.

Speaking for myself, I took a long break from the game and recently came back to it. I've since noticed that the final trials are gated, primarily by player level (60 and 80), as most of the other requirements are easy to achieve.

My highest character currently is my Huntress at 71 and she's done everything. My Knight is 50 and I've done quite a bit on him as well. Finally, my level 36 Mage has only done all of the main story-related missions, i.e., the Graveyard, Prison, Academy, Gardens and Royal Quarters, and maybe a handful of expeditions.

That all said, considering I already need to grind on my Huntress to reach level 80 and experience the new content, and given where my Knight and Mage are now, I'm under the impression that the level cap just seems exceedingly high, especially for new players. If we look at my Mage, this basically implies the story-related content (including the first part of the Slorm Temple) will only bring you to around level 40-45. If you take into account the experience curve, this means you'll likely have to run battleground expeditions, the Great Forge or the Slorm Temple repeatedly for 1.5x as long as the main story content before reaching level 60, and by then, I have a feeling reaching level 80 is probably going to seem like a real slog.

The gear incentive only works for so long, especially given that the gold and slorm costs on things, including for the blacksmith, is still hideously high.

It's certainly possible I'm missing something--as I said, I took a long break from the game, so if something was added to help ease the leveling process and I missed it, feel free to let me know. Otherwise, I feel like experience, gold and slorm gains across the board could use a pretty sizable buff.

Does anyone else agree or am I missing something? What are your experiences?

[Vesperas]

Originally posted by SDD15463:

Originally posted by Vesperas:

I've since noticed that the final trials are gated, primarily by player level (60 and 80), as most of the other requirements are easy to achieve.

My highest character currently is my Huntress at 71 and she's done everything.

in case you didnt know, the trials rewards are shared across the save. You only need to clear the adam nostrus trials on 1 character to unlock the same reward for all 3 characters. Again just in case you didnt know, you can complete the optional missions at the graveyard to unlock and play all 3 characters on the same save

I'm aware.

The point I've been attempting to convey is that, because the end-game content is gated behind the trials and completing said trials felt like a grind on my overpowered Huntress with almost everything already maxed out, it's highly likely most new players are just going to quit outright while attempting to complete them.

The level cap is an issue because the main story content only lasts for the initial 30 levels or so, effectively leaving you to grind a combination of Battlefields, Slorm Temple and Great Forge for 50 more levels, and for players that haven't been playing in early access, this likely means that they're bound to delay working on their gear much until they're close to the level cap because the gear is leveled and that's how ARPG's generally approach gear for the end-game.

I suspect the only reason most players will work on their gear earlier at all is because they've simply hit a wall, whether that be with a boss, the Slorm Temple or the Great Forge.

The reason I was posting feedback related to playing my Mage was simply to highlight how ridiculous it will actually be for a brand new player on a fresh save. My mage is the character I've invested the least time into and I specifically avoided using anything I wouldn't normally have had. Obviously, the Slorm Temple bonuses are automatically applied and some currency carries over so it's not a perfect comparison, but even with those fairly significant perks it quickly became obvious it was still going to take a very long time to complete.

This has largely been fine for early access players because we've had the luxury of chipping away at it over a long period of time--however, I have a feeling it's just going to lead to serious burnout for new players.

[[Ygg]Azarhiel]

Leveling to 100 is not an issue in itself.
The grind needed to get the gear to be able to pass the trials is a whole another story since the massive nerf to goldus farm (-90%).
I really hope that they have another pass at balancing goldus rewards because right now, it feels like they artificially streched the game time for no reasons.

[Rammur]

what there to stretch early access big chunk normaly not released till full release well if they stop procrastinating and release it anyways

[Rammur]

and some game or farmy and grindy how these games work dont like it playin the wrong genre

[Vesperas]

Originally posted by Rammur:

and some game or farmy and grindy how these games work dont like it playin the wrong genre

I'm not sure if you understand the conversation, if I'm being honest, as... no, it is most certainly not how these games work.

I've never played an ARPG (much less a casual one) that basically concludes all available story content at around one third of the level cap and then requires grinding for the sake of grinding before the player is allowed to move on and fight the last boss to experience the end of the story.

It would be like playing Diablo 2 and then right before fighting Diablo on normal around level 25 or so (like most people do), being told, "You must complete the game again on nightmare, complete a full gear set, kill Duriel 30 times and be at least level 80 before you're allowed to fight Diablo."

The only games I've ever played that do stuff somewhat reminiscent of this are maybe MMORPGs that feature raid content with attunements but it's far from being a reasonable comparison.

[TheGame]

Originally posted by TorinuxCthulhu:

The game is less grindy now, believe it or not. The max lvl will be 100 and I don't see anything wrong about it. People should stop wanting everything to be achievable in 2 hours.

Actually I'm wanting to endless have a reason to grind, I'd like the option for no level cap so I can play endless and feel progression once I hit 100 or some sorta of post 100 levelling system like in other ARPG's

[prophecylike]

Originally posted by TheGame:

Originally posted by TorinuxCthulhu:

The game is less grindy now, believe it or not. The max lvl will be 100 and I don't see anything wrong about it. People should stop wanting everything to be achievable in 2 hours.

Actually I'm wanting to endless have a reason to grind, I'd like the option for no level cap so I can play endless and feel progression once I hit 100 or some sorta of post 100 levelling system like in other ARPG's

same but we're minority i feel like lol

[NorionV]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

Originally posted by SDD15463:

in case you didnt know, the trials rewards are shared across the save. You only need to clear the adam nostrus trials on 1 character to unlock the same reward for all 3 characters. Again just in case you didnt know, you can complete the optional missions at the graveyard to unlock and play all 3 characters on the same save

I'm aware. :happy_yeti:

The point I've been attempting to convey is that, because the end-game content is gated behind the trials and completing said trials felt like a grind on my overpowered Huntress with almost everything already maxed out, it's highly likely most new players are just going to quit outright while attempting to complete them.

The level cap is an issue because the main story content only lasts for the initial 30 levels or so, effectively leaving you to grind a combination of Battlefields, Slorm Temple and Great Forge for 50 more levels, and for players that haven't been playing in early access, this likely means that they're bound to delay working on their gear much until they're close to the level cap because the gear is leveled and that's how ARPG's generally approach gear for the end-game.

I suspect the only reason most players will work on their gear earlier at all is because they've simply hit a wall, whether that be with a boss, the Slorm Temple or the Great Forge.

The reason I was posting feedback related to playing my Mage was simply to highlight how ridiculous it will actually be for a brand new player on a fresh save. My mage is the character I've invested the least time into and I specifically avoided using anything I wouldn't normally have had. Obviously, the Slorm Temple bonuses are automatically applied and some currency carries over so it's not a perfect comparison, but even with those fairly significant perks it quickly became obvious it was still going to take a very long time to complete.

This has largely been fine for early access players because we've had the luxury of chipping away at it over a long period of time--however, I have a feeling it's just going to lead to serious burnout for new players.

I don't think any of this is really true. I cleared all the story content at around level 45-50? I stopped playing the game at level 59 some time ago, because I decided I liked the game a lot and wanted to experience the 1.0 release as best as I could.

So yesterday, I put up the experimental branch, and got to work.

I'm now level 73, using just the training reaper, and should clear the second trial before the end of the week. Warlords are right around the corner. Didn't feel anymore grindy than any other ARPG. A lot better, actually, because I can freely switch builds as I please to experiment for more damage, and the crafting system is god tier so regearing is a snap. I frequently upgrade my stuff, and I just don't reinforce beyond like 3 or 4 because I know I'll replace everything again soon.

Idk where you're thinking the grind is that bad. It was pretty quick for me.

[NorionV]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

Originally posted by Rammur:

and some game or farmy and grindy how these games work dont like it playin the wrong genre

I'm not sure if you understand the conversation, if I'm being honest, as... no, it is most certainly not how these games work.

I've never played an ARPG (much less a casual one) that basically concludes all available story content at around one third of the level cap and then requires grinding for the sake of grinding before the player is allowed to move on and fight the last boss to experience the end of the story.

It would be like playing Diablo 2 and then right before fighting Diablo on normal around level 25 or so (like most people do), being told, "You must complete the game again on nightmare, complete a full gear set, kill Duriel 30 times and be at least level 80 before you're allowed to fight Diablo."

The only games I've ever played that do stuff somewhat reminiscent of this are maybe MMORPGs that feature raid content with attunements but it's far from being a reasonable comparison.

I mean, how many ARPGs have you played? A lot of them do this, tbh.

Diablo 3 and 4 let you skip the story entirely. So you can actually be level 1 and doing post game content, lol.

[TheGame]

Diablo as many end game and paragons, you could play endless and many other do the same, how many ARPGs have you played if you don't know this.

[WallaceTheSane]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

Originally posted by Rammur:

and some game or farmy and grindy how these games work dont like it playin the wrong genre

I'm not sure if you understand the conversation, if I'm being honest, as... no, it is most certainly not how these games work.

I've never played an ARPG (much less a casual one) that basically concludes all available story content at around one third of the level cap and then requires grinding for the sake of grinding before the player is allowed to move on and fight the last boss to experience the end of the story.

It would be like playing Diablo 2 and then right before fighting Diablo on normal around level 25 or so (like most people do), being told, "You must complete the game again on nightmare, complete a full gear set, kill Duriel 30 times and be at least level 80 before you're allowed to fight Diablo."

The only games I've ever played that do stuff somewhat reminiscent of this are maybe MMORPGs that feature raid content with attunements but it's far from being a reasonable comparison.

The "final boss" is the equivalent to pinnacle content in every single other modern ARPG currently, so your point is kind of moot, sadly. Slormancer is just giving it some story so it doesn't all feel disconnected from the gameplay.