The Slormancer

The Slormancer

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Grandork Jul 12, 2023 @ 7:57am
Evasion Stacking is insanely OP atm.
Made a Huntress with Evasion Stacking to Elemental Damage conversion. Elemental > Evasion > Armor > Elemental.

Basically invincible with hundreds of millions of DPS, lol. Did all X Difficulty content with ease.
Last edited by Grandork; Jul 12, 2023 @ 9:32am
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Ashmore[The Slormancer]  [developer] Jul 12, 2023 @ 11:56am 
Hi there,
Are you getting this from an infinite loop (meaning stats are being converted over and over, in which case this is a bug I'll have to look into) or is it from a regular behavior?
Lorska Jul 12, 2023 @ 2:30pm 
I'm not sure what he means tbh...
I can't even get primordial untouchable to work with indomitable mountain.
the evasion bonus just vanishes into the ether.
Oh also if you don't get an actual bonus, maybe it just not display it as such? e.g. the armor>evasion>armor loop on huntress obviously doesn't work, but the skill really should say so and not display a value that is never actually used...
Grandork Jul 12, 2023 @ 3:41pm 
Originally posted by AshmoreThe Slormancer:
Hi there,
Are you getting this from an infinite loop (meaning stats are being converted over and over, in which case this is a bug I'll have to look into) or is it from a regular behavior?

Well, it's not infinite loop. It may be working as intended, but it seems bugged to me, in a negative way (as in, I'm not getting even a fraction of what it says I should get).

This is what it looks like:

https://i.imgur.com/B2VVPPl.png

The build isn't nearly min-maxed. If I did, it would have like 4m+ Armor. But since I already did all of the content, didn't feel like the grind was worth it.

Things that are not(?) working properly:

Armor of Illusion: Says it gives +613k Evasion. But it doesn't give anywhere near that much. My guess is that it uses the Armor pre conversion.

Primordial Untouchable: Says it gives +378k Evasion. In reality it's giving a lot less. My guess is that it uses the Elemental Damage pre conversion.

But this can be played around with. If I stack Armor, which will then convert 60% into Evasion, then Convert it back into Armor, I get a ton of Armor out of it.

An example I did while getting that was an item that had 1k Evasion on it did this to my armor:

527k > 561k

But if it had 1k Armor, it did this:

527k > 664k

So, my understanding of how the conversion works is like this:

If you build Armor, it gets multiplied by all the Armor Multipliers and 60% is converted into Evasion.

That Evasion is then Converted back into Armor, getting all the multipliers of Evasion.

Plus, Elemental Damage is converted into Evasion at 100%, then it is converted into Armor.

Then you get 11% of the Armor as Elemental Damage.

Plus, I convert 25% of that Armor as Elemental Resistance.

Bottom line is, this is the priority:

Armor > % Armor > Elemental Damage > Evasion > % Evasion.

Also, for some reason I needed over 200% Elemental Penetration in order to damage the Mages. Weird.

-Edit-

Proof of finishing Wave 100 at Difficulty X:

https://i.imgur.com/LVE9bD4.png
Last edited by Grandork; Jul 12, 2023 @ 4:26pm
Lorska Jul 12, 2023 @ 9:12pm 
Try switching your primordial reaper for the regular one. I'm guessing that your stats will not change at all.
Your stats look about what I would have assumed to be the numbers for an endgame setup without the primordial effect working.
You could also take off the armor>evasion perk and see what happens.
Grandork Jul 13, 2023 @ 5:59am 
Originally posted by Lorska:
Try switching your primordial reaper for the regular one. I'm guessing that your stats will not change at all.
Your stats look about what I would have assumed to be the numbers for an endgame setup without the primordial effect working.
You could also take off the armor>evasion perk and see what happens.

I already tested everything. My build is the optimal setup to abuse the double dipping of Armor > Evasion > Armor.
Lorska Jul 13, 2023 @ 6:56am 
I'm not saying your build is wrong, I just have the same setup and the primordial effect adds 0 to evasion.
The only way I got the effect to work was taking off indomitable mountain (the legendary armor).
So if you switch out the primordial with the normal one there should be no effect on your numbers.

The absurdly high numbers are just coming from the double dipping on all percent modifiers for evasion, armor and elemental damage.
If you have each around 200-300% which was what I estimated (a bit more for elemental damage which checks out with your numbers) then that's equivalent to your numbers.
But both the primordial effect and the huntress skill that turns armor to evasion had absolutely no effect in my testing.

Edit:
That being said, 1M armor and elemental damage is more than enough lol.

Edit2: The reason I'm so curious is that if it does have no impact, then there's pretty much no reason to run this build on a huntress specifically, unless you want 300k mana for some weird reason... That would make some other class, in particular something like a mage a lot more attractive.
Last edited by Lorska; Jul 13, 2023 @ 7:01am
Grandork Jul 13, 2023 @ 8:58am 
Originally posted by Lorska:
I'm not saying your build is wrong, I just have the same setup and the primordial effect adds 0 to evasion.
The only way I got the effect to work was taking off indomitable mountain (the legendary armor).
So if you switch out the primordial with the normal one there should be no effect on your numbers.

The absurdly high numbers are just coming from the double dipping on all percent modifiers for evasion, armor and elemental damage.
If you have each around 200-300% which was what I estimated (a bit more for elemental damage which checks out with your numbers) then that's equivalent to your numbers.
But both the primordial effect and the huntress skill that turns armor to evasion had absolutely no effect in my testing.

Edit:
That being said, 1M armor and elemental damage is more than enough lol.

Edit2: The reason I'm so curious is that if it does have no impact, then there's pretty much no reason to run this build on a huntress specifically, unless you want 300k mana for some weird reason... That would make some other class, in particular something like a mage a lot more attractive.

The reason it gives 0 Evasion is because you have 0 Elemental Power outside of conversion. Flat Elemental Power will be converted into Evasion, just like Raw Power.

As for the huntress skill, I literally tested it as well, like I said in my second post. It applies BEFORE the conversion, but it double dips, which makes it far better than flat evasion.
Last edited by Grandork; Jul 13, 2023 @ 8:59am
Lorska Jul 13, 2023 @ 9:59am 
I'll test this again but yesterday both of those did nothing for me despite having other sources of both flat armor and flat elemental damage...

Edit:
If it doesn't convert it's always worse than flat evasion though... Because you'll scale your armor first and double dip in evasion which actually is completely worthless because it doesn't convert and you can't dodge. Any non-converting evasion is pointless for this build.
Last edited by Lorska; Jul 13, 2023 @ 10:07am
Grandork Jul 13, 2023 @ 10:48am 
Originally posted by Lorska:
I'll test this again but yesterday both of those did nothing for me despite having other sources of both flat armor and flat elemental damage...

Edit:
If it doesn't convert it's always worse than flat evasion though... Because you'll scale your armor first and double dip in evasion which actually is completely worthless because it doesn't convert and you can't dodge. Any non-converting evasion is pointless for this build.

Not sure what's wrong with you, but it's simple to test it. Here, I will do it for you:

This is what it looks like when you have nothing outside of the level 100 Primordial Untouchable at 100 Upgrades.

https://i.imgur.com/okHXJeS.png

I have 12894 Evasion. By equipping Mist Walker, it becomes this:

https://i.imgur.com/MXd4pX5.png

Now I have 15454 Evasion. This comes from the 20% Increased Evasion and the 200 Flat Evasion. I don't have Armor for Armor of Illusion. Equipping Indominable Mountain makes this happen:

https://i.imgur.com/lmGA0ZN.png

Now I have 18545 Evasion and Armor. This is because Indominable Mountain gives 20% More Evasion. The Chest Slot itself doesn't any other stat. Now, if I equip a 373 Evasion Glove, this happens:

https://i.imgur.com/1Olz0UK.png

Now I have 22176 Evasion and Armor. What happens if, instead, I equip 350 Elemental Damage Glove?

https://i.imgur.com/UQ1dUVq.png

Now I have 21952 Evasion and Armor. This means that the Bow is working. But it only applies to base Elemental Damage, not to it multiplied by other stuff. What happens if, instead, I equip 370 Armor Glove?

https://i.imgur.com/AqM87YE.png

Now I have 21076 Armor and 20706 Evasion. This means that Armor of Illusion is working, but taking it from Pre-Conversion armor.

Now, to test the double dip, I equipped a enough stuff to have +93% Increased Armor. Because Armor is converted to Evasion at 60% it's value, this means that Armor will be worth 1.16x of Evasion.

Base Armor: 87537
Armor with Evasion Glove: 95363
Armor with Armor Glove: 97241

This shows that Armor does indeed Double Dip and is better than Evasion if you have enough Armor Multipliers. You should have around +300% Increased Armor, which would mean that Armor is worth 2.4 times of Evasion.

There. Not sure why you are having such a hard time testing something this simple.

This means you should prioritize the following stats on gear:

Armor = % Armor > Elemental Damage > Evasion = % Evasion.

The only relevant stats, for this build, are:

Critical Chance, Ancestral Critical Chance, Critical Damage, Increased Area Size, Attack Speed, Aura Effect.

You will also want 1 instance of Life Leech and 1 of Mana Leech. You deal 10+ Million per hit, so even just 0.5% Leech is your full life/mana per hit.

Everything else is pointless. You have enough damage and armor/magic resist that you don't need any other form of damage mitigation.
Last edited by Grandork; Jul 13, 2023 @ 10:56am
Lorska Jul 13, 2023 @ 10:59am 
yeah I just tested it too.
I have no idea what happened but neither was giving me any increase yesterday, it might have been something weird happening with my UI as I was noticing some real inconsistencies swapping stuff out (didn't restart until today).
Yeah it all gets converted as well.
So I guess huntress is unique in that she gets returns on three stats (elemental, armor and evasion) while other only scale with 2 and one being a lot worse...
Grandork Jul 13, 2023 @ 11:16am 
Originally posted by Lorska:
yeah I just tested it too.
I have no idea what happened but neither was giving me any increase yesterday, it might have been something weird happening with my UI as I was noticing some real inconsistencies swapping stuff out (didn't restart until today).
Yeah it all gets converted as well.
So I guess huntress is unique in that she gets returns on three stats (elemental, armor and evasion) while other only scale with 2 and one being a lot worse...

Yes. But I finished the game with the other two as well, Sorc is just being the good ol' Mana Stacker and Warrior was just a traditional OP build.
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Date Posted: Jul 12, 2023 @ 7:57am
Posts: 11