skill mastery progression

[SatyrFeet]

so, skill progression is totally uninspiring. this system of using an ability to level up its mastery is so painful it hurts. its almost like your being punished for wanting to experiment with different skills and abilities. not to mention the seemingly missing stat of skill mastery progression %? where is it? cant roll on any of my full loadouts of epic gear so where else would it be. i don't see how the dev's will get much information on abilities and how people use them if your just heavily encouraged to keep using the two abilities your decided to use to progress through the story. i play the knight and have a few reapers and or items that would have great synergy with projectiles for some wacky knight build but oh? didn't get elder lance until hours into the game at lvl 28. so why should i hinder myself back to lower wrath's just mindlessly farm for hours on low level guys until i get to the mastery's that actually matter something. there should be at the very least an easier way to obtain this magical stat of skill progression and at most a way to boost skills mastery so that you can actually use them interchangebly. I really don't want to harp on this game too much as i enjoy it a lot but at least in diablo 3 the ability talent's are locked behind character level. i dont know if there's something im missing but the limited tool kit of fun is disapointing.

[Pyrmonkey]

I actually enjoy the fact that you absolutely suck with a skill you've never used and have to put actual effort into it to make it something worth using. Building it by using it in combat should cause you to learn how the skill works before you just switch it into whatever you need for your "build". This method feels a lot more valid for progression than, reaching X level to equip fully optimized skills your character has never used. It's also a really easy grind to do, and it just makes you feel sad inside that you might have to go back and fight little guys for a while. Don't worry champ, I'm sure you'll be back to doing the big numbers and feeling better in no time.

tldr; I like it, please don't change. The effort required makes it feel rewarding to complete.

[Leinad Ventura]

Escrito originalmente por Pyrmonkey:

I actually enjoy the fact that you absolutely suck with a skill you've never used and have to put actual effort into it to make it something worth using. Building it by using it in combat should cause you to learn how the skill works before you just switch it into whatever you need for your "build". This method feels a lot more valid for progression than, reaching X level to equip fully optimized skills your character has never used. It's also a really easy grind to do, and it just makes you feel sad inside that you might have to go back and fight little guys for a while. Don't worry champ, I'm sure you'll be back to doing the big numbers and feeling better in no time.

tldr; I like it, please don't change. The effort required makes it feel rewarding to complete.

+1 I love the current system <3

[SrsBznz]

Escrito originalmente por Pyrmonkey:

I actually enjoy the fact that you absolutely suck with a skill you've never used and have to put actual effort into it to make it something worth using. Building it by using it in combat should cause you to learn how the skill works before you just switch it into whatever you need for your "build". This method feels a lot more valid for progression than, reaching X level to equip fully optimized skills your character has never used. It's also a really easy grind to do, and it just makes you feel sad inside that you might have to go back and fight little guys for a while. Don't worry champ, I'm sure you'll be back to doing the big numbers and feeling better in no time.

tldr; I like it, please don't change. The effort required makes it feel rewarding to complete.

The larger problem than being a slight inconvenience at endgame, is how it dissuades you from taking risks with new skill during the campaign/whilst leveling up.

After a certain point (to me it was the fourth skill) it just feels like a waste of time to keep experimenting at the current stage of the game and sticking to what you've already dedicate time and resources into rather than putting further delays on reaching new content feels like the smart play.


If we pretend that the game actually has a fully fledged campaign, choosing a completely new lvl 0 skill after having invested a lot of time and slorm into upgrades, will really mess with the player's progression and intended flow of the game.


The mastery system isn't all bad, but the first 10 levels need to advance much faster and being able to refund slorm without taking a penalty to it needs to exist as well.
Paying gold would be much more reasonable, maybe something like 500 gold multiplied by player level. It'll sting a bit, but it's not 10% of nearly all slorm ever earned.

[Torinux]

People talking about END GAME in an Early Access game whom devs have already said it has no real END GAME yet. You can always use the skill reset NPC if you didn't like a build and re-spec the slorm into a different one (skill). I honestly didn't felt the skill progression slow at all, but that just me.

People should stop wanting every single game to be played like this or that other game. Yes, the game is very flawed as it is right now, I've been reporting bugs and OP skills or effects that are not working as intended and giving suggestions. But the level of complain in some of the post is ridiculous considering, again, that this game hasn't even be out for a week...

I'm yet to see post commenting this or that skill, or skill synergies are breaking the game or dealing ridiculous high damage. And when devs balance a skill, all I read is "boohoo! you nerfed my build". I'm sick and tired of that kind of players that are being zero useful for the developing of this game, all they care about is their bragging rights.

Let's for one time, unite and give actual mindful feedback, report OP skills, OP skill combinations, etc. We need to give feedback that helps create a healthy game.

[I'm proud of you, son]

It's not too difficult to make gear with +skills and then respec and dump points into stuff that way.

[Torinux]

Escrito originalmente por Danlar Scott:

Escrito originalmente por Pyrmonkey:

I actually enjoy the fact that you absolutely suck with a skill you've never used and have to put actual effort into it to make it something worth using. Building it by using it in combat should cause you to learn how the skill works before you just switch it into whatever you need for your "build". This method feels a lot more valid for progression than, reaching X level to equip fully optimized skills your character has never used. It's also a really easy grind to do, and it just makes you feel sad inside that you might have to go back and fight little guys for a while. Don't worry champ, I'm sure you'll be back to doing the big numbers and feeling better in no time.

tldr; I like it, please don't change. The effort required makes it feel rewarding to complete.

+1 I love the current system <3

I missed your reply, and I ABSOLUTELY agree with you.

[Megan]

Escrito originalmente por TorinuxCthulhu:

People should stop wanting every single game to be played like this or that other game.

Some mechanics are simply bad. I'm quite positive on the game so far, but this is not one of the aspects I like.

I don't believe this particular thread warranted the raising of extraneous issues like nerfs, synergies, and judging whether some feedback is "actual mindful feedback" and some isn't.

[Yap!]

Skill Mastery System that increases skill proficiency: Good

A system that determines proficiency based on the number of uses: Bad


The Skill Mastery itself is good.
The problem is that the only way to raise it is to use a lot of skills.

For example, let's say that there is a skill with an interesting mechanism in which the order in which the skill is used, or the effect changes according to timing.
e.g. Emblem of the mage, serenity of the huntress.

To maximize the effect by adjusting the timing of the use of the skill according to this mechanism is interesting in itself.
But what if we add the current mastery system?
You just use the skill whenever you can without considering timing.

What I want is not extreme, such as deleting the Skill Mastery system.
It's just to make the skill mastery go up even if you use the skill for the purpose of the skill.

[Torinux]

Escrito originalmente por Megan:

I don't believe this particular thread warranted the raising of extraneous issues like nerfs, synergies, and judging whether some feedback is "actual mindful feedback" and some isn't.

Go read most people's feedback, "feedback" is all crying and not actual suggestions. Saying something is stupid, dumb, etc. without giving an actual solution other than "in *insert other aRPG name here* they do it better you should do the same" but most of all, complaining about this game having no content and that the "end game" sucks knowing they bought an EARLY ACCESS game that has been out for less than a week is plain asinine and should never be considered as a mindful feedback.

One has to be smart to post both positive and negative feedback.

[Torinux]

Escrito originalmente por Yap!:

A system that determines proficiency based on the number of uses: Bad

They already stated they wanted to make you feel immersed as in: how you get good at something? By repetition, repetition, repetition.

I'm going to use a dumb example but how do you think a QB gets good at throwing passes? Throwing and throwing and throwing. He won't increase his effectiveness by proxy when a receiver catches the ball, no, he will get better with every single throw he makes.

But I do agree, that as you level up the skill, the number of uses required for the next level are a little bit too high. I'm sure that they can find a nice sweet spot where you don't have to kill 10K+ enemies but you don't have to kill 100 per level either.

[Snuggy Serian]

I just cheesed trough some skills with clones and in the arena mission. 3 i think. Another one i leveled half with using low damage and just doing normal runs while mindless click spamming.
I gave up on ray of obliteration in the mid of level 7. And even that one was just afk waiting for idk, 10-15 minutes?
Was my main skill until around level 20+ i think. Maybe a bit longer.

I always liked the "leveling trough using" thing. But sadly it is really hard to not make it either exploitable or a pain in the ass.
And yeah, having not that much of content available (including the missing skills from the ancestral legacy board), trying out skills is a big motivation right now.

[Phibi]

I really wish they changed the changed the system a bit. I like the progression, but it gets boring so incredibly fast and just becomes frustrating after grinding 30 minutes for one level on one skill.
Maybe add 1 point for each enemy hit instead of 1 point per successful cast?
I'm sure there's gonna be a way to make it more interactive or at least feel less like a drag

[Yap!]

Escrito originalmente por TorinuxCthulhu:

Escrito originalmente por Yap!:

A system that determines proficiency based on the number of uses: Bad

They already stated they wanted to make you feel immersed as in: how you get good at something? By repetition, repetition, repetition.

I'm going to use a dumb example but how do you think a QB gets good at throwing passes? Throwing and throwing and throwing. He won't increase his effectiveness by proxy when a receiver catches the ball, no, he will get better with every single throw he makes.

But I do agree, that as you level up the skill, the number of uses required for the next level are a little bit too high. I'm sure that they can find a nice sweet spot where you don't have to kill 10K+ enemies but you don't have to kill 100 per level either.

Shooting a gun at the sky with nothing in it does not increase the target's hit rate in combat situations.
However, the game works the opposite way, and shooting at the sky is more efficient than practicing the target in combat.

I'm not talking about repetitive behavior increasing proficiency.
I'm talking about the fact that 'meaningless repetitive behavior' affects proficiency, and that it has a greater impact than 'meaningful behavior'.

The system makes me feel like I'm wasting my time when I do 'meaningful actions'.


Of course, the number needed to improve the mastery is too large, so this feeling seems to stand out more.

[swan]

What if it took say ~250 uses of a given skill to unlock its entire passive tree, with a reasonable slorm cost for the first point of a passive, but significantly increase the current slorm cost of further points in that passive, particularly in passives deemed 'powerful'. This way ppl can quite quickly unlock all skills at a bare bones more-or-less-fully-functioning-but-weaker variant of a fully maxed one to get a sense of both how they play and which are worth further investment into. It will be a slorm grind, but it's an ARPG so that goes with the territory; but at least this way ppl can experiment with builds with minimum hassle instead of gazing wistfully at those juicy passives at the tailend of another skill tree you know would take you several hours to reach.

[eqalidan]

Escrito originalmente por Danlar Scott:

Escrito originalmente por Pyrmonkey:

I actually enjoy the fact that you absolutely suck with a skill you've never used and have to put actual effort into it to make it something worth using. Building it by using it in combat should cause you to learn how the skill works before you just switch it into whatever you need for your "build". This method feels a lot more valid for progression than, reaching X level to equip fully optimized skills your character has never used. It's also a really easy grind to do, and it just makes you feel sad inside that you might have to go back and fight little guys for a while. Don't worry champ, I'm sure you'll be back to doing the big numbers and feeling better in no time.

tldr; I like it, please don't change. The effort required makes it feel rewarding to complete.

+1 I love the current system <3

thing is, it doesn't require effort, the way skills gain exp is on a 1 per use, or 1 per second basis, this is less a skill/effort system and more an artificial time lock.

the space movement skill makes sense to be on a per use system as its not a dmg based skill, but the rest of them, its an artificial 5-8 hour time lock that does not care about player skill, what you are doing, and how efficiently you are doing it.

If they are only going to have 15 levels of the skills, and they want level 1-10 take about 8~ hours on a first play (about what it took me to get a maxed skill) then have the skill level 1-10 take about 30-40 levels of exp to get there. this rewards players in a way that's more satisfying then per use, and it also allows a fast track for getting lower level/unused skills up to par. barring exp and going for enemies killed across the board and for every skill currently equipped... i'm not 100% sure on that, the movement space skill I have while I find it mostly cumbersome as of now due to how it currently works and it mostly goes unused (have to force myself to use it rather then want to use it naturally) that one I agree should be on a per use basis, or potentially an exp like its a reward for using that specialization, you get more the longer you use it... i'm kind of 2 minds on it.

all I know is the current per use system is a time gate and I don't like that much as it takes any skillful play, any ability to min max, any luck in gear drops out completely so someone with the worst ability to play is on equal footing with someone who is the best, and this kind of kills fun