Twelve Minutes

Twelve Minutes

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BlueRaja 2021 年 8 月 22 日 下午 5:29
Lots of plot holes in the ending (spoilers)
• In the end, after going back in time, the player says "and leave her without telling her why?"... but at this point they aren't supposed to have even met yet. They met after she went to New York, on New Year's Eve

• If he took that picture of her on New Year's Eve when they met... how could he be on the other side of the country killing their dad?

• Why does William Dafoe voice both characters? And for that matter, why does the dad have hair in one flashback but he's bald in another?

• We're supposed to believe the main character legitimately just forgot about killing their dad? And about everything else he knows? lol??

Also the fact that the last loop got stretched out into 5 loops where you do basically the same thing every time is ridiculous. Ugh.
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Psyringe 2021 年 8 月 22 日 下午 6:09 
引用自 BlueRaja
• In the end, after going back in time, the player says "and leave her without telling her why?"... but at this point they aren't supposed to have even met yet. They met after she went to New York, on New Year's Eve
True. So why do you assume that you're going back in time when it doesn't fit the narrative? Nothing in the game tells you that you're going back in time by more than 12 minutes, that's something that you are interpreting into it.

引用自 BlueRaja
• If he took that picture of her on New Year's Eve when they met... how could he be on the other side of the country killing their dad?
That's something that many players pointed out. Personally I don't remember anyone in the game saying that the husband took the picture, but it keeps being mentioned here in the forum, so chances are that I just overlooked the info.

引用自 BlueRaja
• Why does William Dafoe voice both characters? And for that matter, why does the dad have hair in one flashback but he's bald in another?
There are several interpretations possible. One is that only the "father" is real, and everything you experienced was a hypnosis-induced hallucinatuon (note that the father literally snaps you out of it and says "ah, your back" when you get back into the book room). The "cop", under this interpretation, is just a character that the protagonist's mind made up, using some features of the "father" as a template. Which is something that people indeed do in dreams.

The other main explanation is that the time loop is real, but the scenes in the book room only take place in the protagonist's imagination, like an inner dialog. Under that premise, the cop would have been real, and in the inner dialog, the protagonist's mind merged his memories of the father with some features of the cop, which is also something that our brains might do in a dream state.

引用自 BlueRaja
• We're supposed to believe the main character legitimately just forgot about killing their dad? And about everything else he knows? lol??
Yes. Trauma-induced dissociative amnesia. It's a form of memory suppression, and it's a real thing - you can read studies about the underlying biochemical processes if you like, or case studies, though most of the latter are from soldiers or from victims of severe abuse. It's just far less common than its occurrence in stories and dramas might suggest. The story was pretty obvious - as soon as it started focusing on "Monster", I was pretty sure that the protagonist was "Monster" and had suffered from some form of amnesia, because it's such a common trope.

引用自 BlueRaja
Also the fact that the last loop got stretched out into 5 loops where you do basically the same thing every time is ridiculous. Ugh.
Yeah. My impression is that the developer realized the lack of content in his game and then tried to stretch it out by drip-feeding information very slowly towards the end. Might also explain why the cop is so eager to kill the player even in situations when it's making no sense at all and is even working against the cop's own interests. In my opinion, the game would have been better if the dev had committed to it being short, and instead concentrated on making the experience a good (and less repetitive) one.
最後修改者:Psyringe; 2021 年 8 月 22 日 下午 7:53
Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 22 日 下午 7:29 
I think the game started out as a very grounded, small-scale detective murder mystery where YOU'RE the victim trying to figure out why you're murdered--which was clever enough. But then somewhere in development the idea expanded to the addtional layer of "what if it was all a dream" and the writing quality suffered as a result--all the way to the point where it made reliable evidence in the base game make no sense at all ( like the polaroid).
iheartdaikaiju 2021 年 8 月 22 日 下午 9:22 
引用自 Psyringe
引用自 BlueRaja
• If he took that picture of her on New Year's Eve when they met... how could he be on the other side of the country killing their dad?
That's something that many players pointed out. Personally I don't remember anyone in the game saying that the husband took the picture, but it keeps being mentioned here in the forum, so chances are that I just overlooked the info.
It's mentioned in the game that they met the night the picture was taken
Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 12:12 
引用自 iheartdaikaiju
引用自 Psyringe

That's something that many players pointed out. Personally I don't remember anyone in the game saying that the husband took the picture, but it keeps being mentioned here in the forum, so chances are that I just overlooked the info.
It's mentioned in the game that they met the night the picture was taken

They absolutely did. "You were so smoothe..." It was that whole dialogue.

The more I think about it, the more the story really falls apart.

I think the most hilarious line is when the Cop goes like "What's wrong with you man--you killed your dad and married your sister!" And It's like... Bruh, aren't you a hitman? Didn't you come in here to rob and murder me, my wife, and our unborn child? Put down the bible and get off your high horse, you ♥♥♥♥.

And also irksome, how the wife hides the secret from you that she's killed her father for the past eight years and hopes you'll take her back since it was in self defense. Yet, when you find out you killed your dad 12 minutes ago (also in self-defense), she kicks you out of the house???!!! What.


Lordragon121 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 12:23 
I don't see these at plot holes I see this more as the game telling you that not everything you are seeing is real. It seems the whole scene with the dad is at least partly fake. I am pretty certain that the loops are in your head. (Once you get to the mindfullness ending I feel like it pretty much confirms this) There are small hints in this like during the loops the paintings change and the fact that you can water the plant between loops and it will actually grow.

Now back to the scene with the father, you are correct there is no way the main character has talked to his sister yet so that scene should be fake as well, he might not have even killed his father for all we know.
More so the cop and the father are both voice by the same character. And it's not like he was changing his voice or anything, they talk exactly the same which it feels like the game is telling you that these events did not happen as well.

Also according to the game where it would make sense for the main character to take that picture of the fridge, the wife does say she meets him a couple of weeks after that picture is taken. So she just keeps the picture there because it was her first time in that city i guess?

Pat4ever 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 4:53 
引用自 iheartdaikaiju
引用自 Psyringe

That's something that many players pointed out. Personally I don't remember anyone in the game saying that the husband took the picture, but it keeps being mentioned here in the forum, so chances are that I just overlooked the info.
It's mentioned in the game that they met the night the picture was taken

Considering there's literally two different polaroids I don't even think that part is reliable
Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 5:49 
引用自 Pat4ever
引用自 iheartdaikaiju
It's mentioned in the game that they met the night the picture was taken

Considering there's literally two different polaroids I don't even think that part is reliable


Wiping away plotholes with "it was all a dream"/"but none of it was really real" isn't clever writing.

>Why did the chicken cross the road?
>MAYBE IT DIDN'T THO, IT WAS ALL A DREAM MAYBE? EITHER WAY WE GOT TOM HOLLAND AS THE CHICKEN AND SHIA LEBEOUF TO PLAY THE ROAD. ENJOY 7 HOURS OF CLICKING FUN AS YOU WATCH THE CHICKEN TRY TO CROSS THE ROAD ONLY TO GET HIT BY IT'S FATHER DRIVING A TRACTOR--OR WAS THE TRACTOR A PRIUS THE WHOLE TIME? NONE OF THIS IS RELIABLE. ALSO TIME TRAVEL. $24.99 PLEASE.



RusLocalNetwork 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 6:50 
引用自 Pat4ever
引用自 iheartdaikaiju
It's mentioned in the game that they met the night the picture was taken

Considering there's literally two different polaroids I don't even think that part is reliable
There's actually three [sun9-40.userapi.com]
Seems like her surroundings and dress are changing from a party to some bar
最後修改者:RusLocalNetwork; 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 6:53
Lordragon121 2021 年 8 月 23 日 下午 9:25 
引用自 Skaijo
引用自 Pat4ever

Considering there's literally two different polaroids I don't even think that part is reliable


Wiping away plotholes with "it was all a dream"/"but none of it was really real" isn't clever writing.

>Why did the chicken cross the road?
>MAYBE IT DIDN'T THO, IT WAS ALL A DREAM MAYBE? EITHER WAY WE GOT TOM HOLLAND AS THE CHICKEN AND SHIA LEBEOUF TO PLAY THE ROAD. ENJOY 7 HOURS OF CLICKING FUN AS YOU WATCH THE CHICKEN TRY TO CROSS THE ROAD ONLY TO GET HIT BY IT'S FATHER DRIVING A TRACTOR--OR WAS THE TRACTOR A PRIUS THE WHOLE TIME? NONE OF THIS IS RELIABLE. ALSO TIME TRAVEL. $24.99 PLEASE.

I don't think there are alot of people trying to defend this games writing lol it for sure isn't the best. However using "plot holes" as a way to point towards the fact everything isnt as it seems. At that point is it being a plot hole that bad? Like of course there are holes in that story because its not the actual story.
Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 24 日 下午 7:37 
引用自 Lordragon121

I don't think there are alot of people trying to defend this games writing lol it for sure isn't the best. However using "plot holes" as a way to point towards the fact everything isnt as it seems. At that point is it being a plot hole that bad? Like of course there are holes in that story because its not the actual story.

I'm guessing I'm having trouble figuring out where the merit in the story actually is. Seems like the threat of a hitman coming to rob you and kill your wife is a greater ordeal than "whoops, you accidentally married your sister." Like the stakes went from--omg, there's a legitimate life threatening issue about to happen--to--oh well, I mean, I guess this is awkward but... you're both happy consensual adults who got into something neither knew ahead of time. Who cares? 8 years of marriage, baby on the way, like who cares. How do you go form hitman to awkward family reunion in a narrative and try to maintain stakes? How do you go from enigmatic Time Loop to guy daydreaming during a hypnosis session? It just like... once the third act of the story hits, all of the stakes relevance of the narrative are take a nosedive.

I'm just sad in that some guy spent 8 years writing this story, and much like his main lead, I can't wait to forget it.
Inuakurei 2021 年 8 月 24 日 下午 8:01 
The writing is just bad. There's way too much left to speculation, we have no idea what is real or what isn't, and many points in the story contradict each other which just leads to more confusion. A story like this only works if the reader has a basis to make speculations off of. A story isn't good if it requires the user to make all these speculations about absolutely everything. At this point all we can do is spout pointless conjecture because the story itself is so mangled that it's beyond logic.

And to top it all off, its very possible the entire thing is just a result of hypnosis. Meaning the writer may have pulled the "its all a dream so nothing has to make sense" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 24 日 下午 8:33 
引用自 Inuakurei
The writing is just bad. There's way too much left to speculation, we have no idea what is real or what isn't, and many points in the story contradict each other which just leads to more confusion. A story like this only works if the reader has a basis to make speculations off of. A story isn't good if it requires the user to make all these speculations about absolutely everything. At this point all we can do is spout pointless conjecture because the story itself is so mangled that it's beyond logic.

And to top it all off, its very possible the entire thing is just a result of hypnosis. Meaning the writer may have pulled the "its all a dream so nothing has to make sense" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

It's the Abrams approach to writing. Have a killer concept, throw in some stars, wtf are endings lol? Profit.
Lordragon121 2021 年 8 月 25 日 上午 7:30 
引用自 Skaijo
引用自 Lordragon121

I don't think there are alot of people trying to defend this games writing lol it for sure isn't the best. However using "plot holes" as a way to point towards the fact everything isnt as it seems. At that point is it being a plot hole that bad? Like of course there are holes in that story because its not the actual story.

I'm guessing I'm having trouble figuring out where the merit in the story actually is. Seems like the threat of a hitman coming to rob you and kill your wife is a greater ordeal than "whoops, you accidentally married your sister." Like the stakes went from--omg, there's a legitimate life threatening issue about to happen--to--oh well, I mean, I guess this is awkward but... you're both happy consensual adults who got into something neither knew ahead of time. Who cares? 8 years of marriage, baby on the way, like who cares. How do you go form hitman to awkward family reunion in a narrative and try to maintain stakes? How do you go from enigmatic Time Loop to guy daydreaming during a hypnosis session? It just like... once the third act of the story hits, all of the stakes relevance of the narrative are take a nosedive.

I'm just sad in that some guy spent 8 years writing this story, and much like his main lead, I can't wait to forget it.


Honesty the worst part is that most likely the only real thing is that he married his sister, and maybe the fact the sister/wife killed their father. Everything else that involves the cop/hitman/father is for sure just in his head. In the mindfulness ending which a lot of people are taking as the one true ending, one of the last lines you hear are "You do have a remarkable imagination, the stories you have created. But believing them so strongly so deeply is unhealthy. You have to let her go."

So yes he used hypnosis but honestly the whole story seems to be just in his head a part of his psychological break as he realized that the woman he's been with for 8 years is now his sister and he just can't deal with that so he makes these weird ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up stories in his head. And yeah some couples in the end would stick together, but honestly I would say if this was public knowledge most couples would break up. That's why I also think maybe she was the one who killed their father to give him more reason to break up with her and makes it harder for him to stay with her.



Skaijo 2021 年 8 月 25 日 下午 8:50 
引用自 Lordragon121
引用自 Skaijo

I'm guessing I'm having trouble figuring out where the merit in the story actually is. Seems like the threat of a hitman coming to rob you and kill your wife is a greater ordeal than "whoops, you accidentally married your sister." Like the stakes went from--omg, there's a legitimate life threatening issue about to happen--to--oh well, I mean, I guess this is awkward but... you're both happy consensual adults who got into something neither knew ahead of time. Who cares? 8 years of marriage, baby on the way, like who cares. How do you go form hitman to awkward family reunion in a narrative and try to maintain stakes? How do you go from enigmatic Time Loop to guy daydreaming during a hypnosis session? It just like... once the third act of the story hits, all of the stakes relevance of the narrative are take a nosedive.

I'm just sad in that some guy spent 8 years writing this story, and much like his main lead, I can't wait to forget it.


Honesty the worst part is that most likely the only real thing is that he married his sister, and maybe the fact the sister/wife killed their father. Everything else that involves the cop/hitman/father is for sure just in his head. In the mindfulness ending which a lot of people are taking as the one true ending, one of the last lines you hear are "You do have a remarkable imagination, the stories you have created. But believing them so strongly so deeply is unhealthy. You have to let her go."

So yes he used hypnosis but honestly the whole story seems to be just in his head a part of his psychological break as he realized that the woman he's been with for 8 years is now his sister and he just can't deal with that so he makes these weird ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up stories in his head. And yeah some couples in the end would stick together, but honestly I would say if this was public knowledge most couples would break up. That's why I also think maybe she was the one who killed their father to give him more reason to break up with her and makes it harder for him to stay with her.

I don't care about any of that.

Accidentally marrying your sister doesn't outweigh the severity or importance of surviving a hitman that shows up at your front door.

Accidentally marrying your sister isn't worse than actively shooting your father, and running away assuming he died--or showing up at a stranger's home with zip-tie handcuffs and a revolver.

The game treats the sister thing like it's the end of the world. Even the hitman chastises you for it. The father--who knowingly cheated on his wife--nearly kills you out of rage for it. Again. WTF. It's like the game suddenly turned into a episode of Veggie Tales, I was expecting a cucumber to come out of the fridge and start reciting bible verses at me.

If I'm 8 years into a happy and committed relationship, married, and got a baby on the way, and it turns out we had the same dad but different moms through some weird series of events that were out of our control that I just found out about, I'm not flipping out. It's not like their kid is gonna have 6 arms. That wife would be hard pressed to find a man who'd violently die over and over and over again for the sake of finding some way to save her and their unborn child. It's such a stupid thing to even consider breaking up over considering the struggle the guy went through demonstrating his devotion to his family.

IF the conceit is "but none of it was real" then the writer just wasted everyone's time. This might be the worst game I've played for some time. Keep the $25, but I'm never buying a game with this guy's name on it ever again.

monsterfurby 2021 年 8 月 26 日 下午 2:35 
My first theory out of the gate was that everything from him seeing the onesie onward was him hallucinating. I dropped that one quickly, but now that I think about it, I'm kind of back to that. Him killing their father and her being his sister might be true - maybe reading his mother's name and realizing everything being built on a lie of sorts led to him fantasizing about getting some sort of "just punishment" by way of the father-shaped hitman/cop.
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