Apparently cheaters being put in same lobbies

[MessiahofMelons]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FallGuysGame/comments/ipmxjn/ever_played_a_round_of_fall_mountain_where_all/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Dev comment

We have started doing this to some cheaters, and what you're seeing here is *probably* one of the cheater only lobbies. I can't say for certain but videos like this one of lobbies full of cheaters are not representative of what most players are seeing in game. We're still hard at work with a much better solution. News very soon.

[gamingmikan]

Interesting!

[PARMEE]

this is just stupid as hell if its true . if they CAN see and put them in same lobbies why not BAN THEM ?

[MessiahofMelons]

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

this is just stupid as hell if its true . if they CAN see and put them in same lobbies why not BAN THEM ?

I guess the logic is these are unsure cases. So lobbies like this will get suspicious people and then be shown to be cheating or just an anomaly due to physics. Then they can be banned after that.

Plus those sneaky cheaters who only cheat at the end or subtlety cheat will be more likely to cheat if there are other cheaters

[hairy peak]

lol that's beautiful

[PARMEE]

Цитата допису Messiah of Melons:

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

this is just stupid as hell if its true . if they CAN see and put them in same lobbies why not BAN THEM ?

I guess the logic is these are unsure cases. So lobbies like this will get suspicious people and then be shown to be cheating or just an anomaly due to physics. Then they can be banned after that.

Plus those sneaky cheaters who only cheat at the end or subtlety cheat will be more likely to cheat if there are other cheaters

ok i get what you are saying , but how did they end up in the lobby from the first place ? is it based on reports then? it just sound weird :P

[MessiahofMelons]

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

Цитата допису Messiah of Melons:

I guess the logic is these are unsure cases. So lobbies like this will get suspicious people and then be shown to be cheating or just an anomaly due to physics. Then they can be banned after that.

Plus those sneaky cheaters who only cheat at the end or subtlety cheat will be more likely to cheat if there are other cheaters

ok i get what you are saying , but how did they end up in the lobby from the first place ? is it based on reports then? it just sound weird :P

Well they are not doing reports anymore, i assume they are checking for a type of software.

But they might also be doing a in game speed, time check. Like you could have a lot of easy checks like if complete door dash in 10 seconds, flsg as cheater. Or something riskier like checking top speed. But doing checks like this could catch regular players due to how the physics works. So lobbies like this could be like an overflow sive situation. Put all suspects in this lobby, and it should find cheaters then.

this is pure speculation as I have very basic game dev knowledge there is probably a better solution. But its what my friend group of software engineers thought of XD

[PARMEE]

Цитата допису Messiah of Melons:

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

ok i get what you are saying , but how did they end up in the lobby from the first place ? is it based on reports then? it just sound weird :P

Well they are not doing reports anymore, i assume they are checking for a type of software.

But they might also be doing a in game speed, time check. Like you could have a lot of easy checks like if complete door dash in 10 seconds, flsg as cheater. Or something riskier like checking top speed. But doing checks like this could catch regular players due to how the physics works. So lobbies like this could be like an overflow sive situation. Put all suspects in this lobby, and it should find cheaters then.

this is pure speculation as I have very basic game dev knowledge there is probably a better solution. But its what my friend group of software engineers thought of XD

cool info , thanks

[Psyringe]

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

this is just stupid as hell if its true . if they CAN see and put them in same lobbies why not BAN THEM ?

One reason is probably that it's safer from a legal and financial viewpoint. In some jurisdictions with strong consumer protection, customers may be entitled to a refund if you remove their ability to play a product they paid for, especially after such a short time. (Yes, usually there's a license agreement that tries to give the licensor the respective rights, but those clauses often aren't valid, as license agreements are not allowed to void parts of the consumer protection laws in these countries.)

The matter is complicated and as far as I'm aware, the case whether it's legal to ban a gamer from playing a product they paid for without also granting them a refund has never actually been brought to court. But in theory, the case _could_ be made. And that's why every legal counsel will always tell developers to find solutions that don't remove the game completely from these players. It's the "why risk it when alternative solutions exist?" argument.

Personally I'd be fine with such a solution. What I want, is being able to play this game fairly with people who share this mindset. Whether cheaters in their own lobbies have fun annoying each other, doesn't affect me. I don't even care if they keep all their crowns and kudos, I'm not competing with them for who's got the bigger wardrobe. I'd find that silly, to be honest.

Granted, my sense of justice would prefer that the cheaters receive some form of punishment. But I won't get worked up if that never happens. This is just a game, it's not important enough to require that degree of justice.

[PARMEE]

Цитата допису Psyringe:

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

this is just stupid as hell if its true . if they CAN see and put them in same lobbies why not BAN THEM ?

One reason is probably that it's safer from a legal and financial viewpoint. In some jurisdictions with strong consumer protection, customers may be entitled to a refund if you remove their ability to play a product they paid for, especially after such a short time. (Yes, usually there's a license agreement that tries to give the licensor the respective rights, but those clauses often aren't valid, as license agreements are not allowed to void parts of the consumer protection laws in these countries.)

The matter is complicated and as far as I'm aware, the case whether it's legal to ban a gamer from playing a product they paid for without also granting them a refund has never actually been brought to court. But in theory, the case _could_ be made. And that's why every legal counsel will always tell developers to find solutions that don't remove the game completely from these players. It's the "why risk it when alternative solutions exist?" argument.

Personally I'd be fine with such a solution. What I want, is being able to play this game fairly with people who share this mindset. Whether cheaters in their own lobbies have fun annoying each other, doesn't affect me. I don't even care if they keep all their crowns and kudos, I'm not competing with them for who's got the bigger wardrobe. I'd find that silly, to be honest.

Granted, my sense of justice would prefer that the cheaters receive some form of punishment. But I won't get worked up if that never happens. This is just a game, it's not important enough to require that degree of justice.

Ok, i hear you, and actually i dont think jurisdiction is in the way for devs to ban people, because it should be very easy to add in the license agreement that if you manipulate or change the way the game behaves with a 3rd party software it will result in permban, it works for many other games, but ... you sound confident so i wont argue with u on that point

[Psyringe]

Цитата допису OlöfParme:

Ok, i hear you, and actually i dont think jurisdiction is in the way for devs to ban people, because it should be very easy to add in the license agreement that if you manipulate or change the way the game behaves with a 3rd party software it will result in permban, it works for many other games, but ... you sound confident so i wont argue with u on that point

Don't trust people just because they sound confident. :)

It's true that it's easy to add such clauses to the license agreement. The question is whether that clause is valid under the jurisdiction of the respective country. I mean, it's equally easy to add a clause like "You can never refund this game under any circumstances ever" into a license agreement - but that clause would not be valid in many countries, because those countries have laws that give customers a right to a refund under certain conditions. And if a license contains a clause that contradicts the law of a given country, then that clause is not valid in that country.

There's also the question of whether the entire license agreement might be unenforceable if the customer didn't have the opportunity to read it before making the purchase - but that's a whole other can of worms. ;)

All that said, it is very well possible that such a clause _would_ be legal in all countries that developers deem important. But no one can be sure about it until many such cases have been decided by the judges. So why (as a developer) take the risk and doing something that _might_ turn out to be illegal in some countries? Why take the risk of creating a situation where you have to go to cour over something like that?

(On a side note: There _is_ jurisdiction about bans in online F2P games, and as far as I'm aware, the judges generally support the developers' rights to ban customers and remove their access to purchased content on that account. But the developers _did_ have to go through the effort to defend their case in court, which many would probably prefer to avoid in the first place. And the F2P environment favors the devs a bit more than other gaming environments with regard to these legal questions.)