ENOUGH.

[ʙᴜɴ.ᴇ]

Cheater just took my Big Tease achievement. by flying past me.

I have been patient, I have played fairly. I have had enough.

Mediatonic you CAN NOT release broken, unfinished games with NO anti cheat in 2020, get that through your thick skulls. I have played alpha early access games that have worked better, this game is nowhere near polished enough for full release, why did you do it? its done nothing but taint your company name and upset a lot of people that paid you money for some fun.

you should do the honest thing, and offer EVERY customer a full refund regardless of hours played because you should damn well know you are to be held accountable for the state of YOUR game.

It is inexcusable to release a game with this many bugs and glitches some even game breaking, did you even test the game? what did the beta testers do? let me guess you gave beta access to a few streamers to promote the game and self promote themselves instead of actually testing the game because in my 20ish hours I have encountered countless bugs and they are not hard to replicate.

Tail tag and its variants are mostly unplayable with the shoddy netcode and you know this, yet its only after release you have had any thought of it, if you only did internal testing over LAN you can not fully test latency with full player count from many different locations. Its the basics of QA for ANY game, I have little belief in the fact you fully tested this game before throwing it out. Please prove me otherwise.

and how on earth did you think it would work to release a game in 2020 on PC without anti cheat? do your employees even game at all? its not exactly hard to see cheating in PC platform as its a very common and problematic thing, yet you put out a game that connects up to 60 players at one time and have nothing to protect the people playing for real from being robbed of their currency and enjoyment from cheaters?

and the server capacity, again with the lack of anti cheat you clearly have not thought this through, yes you are an indie studio but it should be common knowledge for any developer that if you release a game with a fresh concept it will potentially gather a large playerbase, especially if its advertised on Steams front page and offered for free with PS+ subscriptions. You should have tested server stability with beta stress tests, why did you not do this? again I am getting the impression of a rushed release.

So far there is no enjoyment in this game anymore now I have discovered the issues at hand. Whats worse is the false positive reviews plaguing the games store page which will take even more unsuspecting peoples money, Not to mention parents of children will now have to fork out another £15 since you disabled family share because you have no idea how to stop the influx of cheaters YOU are to blame for infesting the game.

After seeing the trailer for Season 2, it is clear you have no intention to fix the game and instead adding further problems to it. Very big mistake and you are adding nails to the coffin for this game by doing so. If you continue to ignore the issues and fail to address them you will kill your game and rightfully so.

Seriously, put out a statement apologising and offer refunds, we people deserve better.

[NPC]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Peasant #34:

And you seem to think there isn't one, and yet cannot prove it.

I mean, if no one is getting banned for using cheat engine, go use it.

it's your job to prove an anti-cheat exists, you do it

"I ferverently believe that this thing, that the developers have stated to exist, does not actually exist!"

"Okay, prove it"

"No, you!"

See, that's why I said you're disabled. You're making a positive claim about something not being there, when the developers have stated that there is a system in place the flags cheaters.

But hey, I should trust a total Random on Steam over the Developers who want the game to be successful given that, you know, their livelihoods depend on it during a pandemic, Lol.

[NPC]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

Seeing posts on a forum of players doesn't constitute proof there was no anti-cheat

need I mention the hundreds of youtube videos

Take those hundred of videos, the 2,000 threads on steam (which is not the case). You have, what, 2,100 hackers? Out of what, 2 million?

♥♥♥♥ it, I'll give you an extra Benefit-of-the-doubt 8,000 hackers. 10,100 Hackers. That's %0.505% of the players.

... All of which we do not have concrete evidence of if they have already been shadow banned?

Wow, really game breaking huh? That 0.505% must really be busting your balls.

[Toby Bentobox]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

Sure, but again, I could mention the thousands of youtube videos of GTA STILL having cheats thrown around on a daily basis

this has nothing to do with fall guys

Has everything to do with Fall Guys because its bringing a frame of reference to your point. I noticed you didn't answer the question :P

Do you believe that any game that has cheating in it currently, had no anti cheat to begin with?

[Toby Bentobox]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Peasant #34:

"I ferverently believe that this thing, that the developers have stated to exist, does not actually exist!"

"Okay, prove it"

"No, you!"

it's not my job to prove your point

It is actually you that has the burden of proof. As you're the one bringing the charges that the game has no anti cheat. Maxim semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit.

[Ailes]

How would the anti-cheat work? The one that is supposedly banning people after they used cheats? Would it determine that a player has for example finished a map in too fast a time to be possible, or fly out of bounds? Then the game must also take into account the physics and that players can get tossed around quite a bit just by running into obstacles and level props. You think the devs would have been able to code something that sounds so relatively complicated?

[Toby Bentobox]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

Has everything to do with Fall Guys

I didn't know Fall Guys was part of the GTA series

Okay, since you aren't understanding I'm using the games as a frame of reference and not as some sort of...thing where I'm trying to make GTA a part of Fall Guys?? (what?), then we can shelve that. You can even put that as a point in your favor if that makes you feel better.

Lets get back to the actual question.

Do you believe that any game that has cheaters currently, had no anti-cheat to begin with?

[Powellinho.72]

Publicado originalmente por Peasant #34:

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

imagine trying to justify not getting a quality product on launch and that it's okay for an online game in 2020 not to have an anti-cheat on launch

literally lol

Imagine having no real argument, lol.

Your argument earlier was that everybody who was seeing cheaters lived in 3rd world countries.....

[TemmieNeko]

Publicado originalmente por Peasant #34:

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

says the person trying to justify no anti-cheat in 2020

brilliant

So you're saying that you've decompiled the game, and seen that there is no anti-cheat? No flagging system? Or that you have exact evidence of facing the exact same hacker twice, and can prove it by showing the same IP on two different sessions?

That's pretty brave of you. I'd love to see it.

strawman argument.

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

see literally every post on the steam forums lol, you can even use cheat engine

absolutely hilarious, what a laugh riot

Seeing posts on a forum of players doesn't constitute proof there was no anti-cheat. And entire fanbase could be brought to believe anything, just read up on a certain "cheat" in Tomb Raider and how people fervently believed that.

If you're basing on numbers too bear in mind 1 hacker in 1 single game is seen by 59 other players who can potentially air that on a forum.

1 game = 59 potential detractors.
10 games = 590
100 games = 5900
1000 games = 59000

I don't know how many games are played in one day but yeah. If someone could do the math if they know...? Optics will always look bad from start to finish on a forum.

You can certainly say anti-cheat was under-equipped for the amount of players they actually got over the expected numbers. (Lord knows their servers were). But until you can get into their original source code, you can't say there was NO anti-cheat.

logical fallacy
where are you getting your data?
source?
ty

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

It is actually you that has the burden of proof

you're arguing there is an anti-cheat, my argument is there is none. my argument has plenty of substantial evidence with the hundreds of youtube videos and the thousands of forum posts about cheaters

you need to demonstrate one exists

unfortunately, we see the cheaters - they don't.
so to them, it's Schrodinger's cheater.
They're gonna rationalize it anyway they see fit.
Even going as far as to construct a strawman argument, and pull information irrelevant to the topic, and then make up data.

good stuff.

and when there's more cheaters - they will say " the hackers found a new way to cheat, the devs are trying to fix it " meanwhile ' Zipo ZoOmm flying beans! "

[TemmieNeko]

Bottom line to any nay-sayers of how to implement " anti cheat " would be first off
stop having the client side data, many mmorpgs launch you from outside the game, much leik PSO2 does on Steam .
Pso2 - also applies an anti cheat program at boot up ( was gameguard back when i played on pcs ) anyways - this is to prevent ppl from hacking the data, which is stored server side.
It will also detect if you have any injection programs running, or third party programs hooked to the process ( such as the innocent OBS Studio ) And if it detects a third-party kit, it prevents you from launching the game
this is how you stop cheaters.


to further elaborate on this with PSO2 as a subject, the only way to modify it ( at least in the olden days ) was to literally replace the lines of code in your client-side files. after the game launched, and already ran a check for them.

the problem is having those client side files
if you can't access them, you can't alter stuff.

Oh, and PPS - we did have an issue with ppl using cheat engine to no clip, mess with people and warp them outside maps and stuff. took sega very little time to curb them, very very little time. was liek a 2 day issue

[Toby Bentobox]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

Publicado originalmente por Toby Bentobox:

It is actually you that has the burden of proof

you're arguing there is an anti-cheat, my argument is there is none. my argument has plenty of substantial evidence with the hundreds of youtube videos and the thousands of forum posts about cheaters

you need to demonstrate one exists

Strom, I have never brought the -initial- claim that anti cheat "exists". And you seem to be changing the narrative a bit here. You said that there was NO anticheat to begin with. You've proven that hackers STILL exist in the game, which is done by the videos. What those videos don't do however, is prove that there isn't some sort of anti-cheat in there currently (and that the hackers are using updated scripts to bypass). And it certainly doesn't prove that, on launch, the game didn't have anti-cheat. Its all very circumstantial.

[iNERTiA]

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

unfortunately, we see the cheaters - they don't.
so to them, it's Schrodinger's cheater.
They're gonna rationalize it anyway they see fit.
Even going as far as to construct a strawman argument, and pull information irrelevant to the topic, and then make up data.

good stuff.

and when there's more cheaters - they will say " the hackers found a new way to cheat, the devs are trying to fix it " meanwhile ' Zipo ZoOmm flying beans! "

welcome to the fall guys forums, where there are people who can't see the writing on the wall and realize that little has been done to curb the cheaters

I swear I have NEVER seen so many apologists as this game's forums, its actually pathetic people are willing to say this is okay and "to give the devs time." Its closing in on a MONTH since release and they have made HOW MUCH off the sales of this game? Absolutely ridiculous, so many people with their head up their asses.

These cheats are literally the MOST BASIC cheats ever conceived, its cheat engine for crying out loud. Just buy a license to a simple anti-cheat at the very least... Cant believe people are willing to defend this lmao "ohhh its not a AAA studio so its not their fault."

Sheesh people really do not understand this industry AT ALL, its so sad lol.

[TemmieNeko]

Publicado originalmente por iNERTiA:

Publicado originalmente por Strom:

welcome to the fall guys forums, where there are people who can't see the writing on the wall and realize that little has been done to curb the cheaters

I swear I have NEVER seen so many apologists as this game's forums, its actual pathetic people are willing to say this is okay and "to give the devs time." Its closing in on a MONTH since release and they have made HOW MUCH off the sales of this game? Absolutely ridiculous, so many people with their head up their asses.

These cheats are literally the MOST BASIC cheats ever conceived, its cheat engine for crying out loud. Just buy a license to a simple anti-cheat at the very least... Cant believe people are willing to defend this lmao "ohhh its not a AAA studio so its not their fault."

Sheesh people really do not understand this industry AT ALL, its so sad lol.

ikr, imagine not being able to prevent the simplest kit

[Nyah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clEFQ3lhmgc

[NPC]

Publicado originalmente por TemmieNeko:

Publicado originalmente por iNERTiA:

I swear I have NEVER seen so many apologists as this game's forums, its actual pathetic people are willing to say this is okay and "to give the devs time." Its closing in on a MONTH since release and they have made HOW MUCH off the sales of this game? Absolutely ridiculous, so many people with their head up their asses.

These cheats are literally the MOST BASIC cheats ever conceived, its cheat engine for crying out loud. Just buy a license to a simple anti-cheat at the very least... Cant believe people are willing to defend this lmao "ohhh its not a AAA studio so its not their fault."

Sheesh people really do not understand this industry AT ALL, its so sad lol.

ikr, imagine not being able to prevent the simplest kit

So go use cheat engine right now. Do it. Go grab whatever hack tool you want, FLiNG, WeMOD, AntiFun, you name it. Go out and hack right now, and stream yourself not getting banned right after.

[TemmieNeko]

Publicado originalmente por Peasant #34:

Publicado originalmente por TemmieNeko:

ikr, imagine not being able to prevent the simplest kit

So go use cheat engine right now. Do it. Go grab whatever hack tool you want, FLiNG, WeMOD, AntiFun, you name it. Go out and hack right now, and stream yourself not getting banned right after.

why am i going to bother? I'm not a cheater, and I see no point in doing it.