Should I keep playing the game?

[archcorenth]

I bought Bard's Tale IV because I really enjoyed Operencia. I was looking up about Operencia afterward to see why no one had really talked about it, and in a steam forum somebody asked which game they should play Operencia, Might and Magic X, and Bard's Tale IV. The consensus seemed to be that all games were good but that of the three Operencia was the best and Might and Magic X the worst (but still good).

What really interested me about Bard's Tale IV was that the page also mentioned that Bard's Tale IV was a puzzle game as much as it was an RPG. Well, puzzle games are mostly what I play (or 4X strategy games). So, Bard's Tale was an easy sell for me. But my opening hours with it have been very frustrating. I don't really care for the intro which is a public execution followed by a genocide. That's not really what I play games to experience. and I won't go through other things I don't really care for, but also I haven't seen very many puzzles yet. I'm in the first dungeon and there have been some interesting traps but the puzzles have been a braindead simple block pushing puzzle and now a 4X4 sudoku! If I wanted to play Sudoku, I'd play a lot harder Sudoku and frankly, I don't want to play Sudoku in a fantasy dungeon at all. So, I guess what I'm asking is do the puzzle get harder and more appropriate to the setting or is this what I can expect going forward?

[DiceWrangler]

Puzzles are common throughout the Bard's Tale series but they are not the focus of the game. Exploring, fighting monsters, completing quests and increasing your party's capability (leveling-up) is the focus -- just like an old school RPG. In the Director's Cut, for example, they added a new song (for everyone; not just bards) that lets you bypass puzzles that you would otherwise need to solve to continue your adventure. Some puzzles, however, are not required and are just for extra rewards. The puzzles get much more difficult the further you go and the puzzles you encounter at the start are just to explain the mechanics; like manipulating cogs, pushing barriers, etc.

[Kira]

Originally posted by archcorenth:

What really interested me about Bard's Tale IV was that the page also mentioned that Bard's Tale IV was a puzzle game as much as it was an RPG. Well, puzzle games are mostly what I play (or 4X strategy games). So, Bard's Tale was an easy sell for me. But my opening hours with it have been very frustrating.

Most people who come to complain do so because they find the puzzles to be too numerous, or the combat to be too hard. I'm glad someone wants more puzzles !

I'm also mainly a puzzle player and I loved BT4. I hope you will too!

I don't really care for the intro which is a public execution followed by a genocide. That's not really what I play games to experience. and I won't go through other things I don't really care for, but also I haven't seen very many puzzles yet. I'm in the first dungeon and there have been some interesting traps but the puzzles have been a braindead simple block pushing puzzle and now a 4X4 sudoku! If I wanted to play Sudoku, I'd play a lot harder Sudoku and frankly, I don't want to play Sudoku in a fantasy dungeon at all. So, I guess what I'm asking is do the puzzle get harder and more appropriate to the setting or is this what I can expect going forward?

They added the intro sequence to the DC (the original cut only had the narrator explain some background on the current menace). I wish they hadn't; I understand they wanted to show how bad things are in the city (again) but it's just depressing especially when watching it again and again on subsequent playthroughs.

Now the puzzles do get more complex as DiceWrangler has said, in fact some of the end game puzzles are so tough that a lot of people resorted to the Struggler's Lament to skip some of them.

While there are a lot of puzzles in the game world, what makes BT4 even more puzzly is how the other two aspects of the game (exploration, combat) also play like puzzles.

Then again don't expect a pure puzzle game like Witness or Qube or the Talos Principle, in BT4 you have a strong RPG element and a fair bit of exploration (though thanks to the various secret doors and chests, the exploration is pretty solid. Case in point, I found a secret door in one of the dungeons on my 7th play-through that I never found before.)

[svdp]

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: yes.

😌

[svdp]

" I found a secret door in one of the dungeons on my 7th play-through that I never found before.)"

What? Where? Yoy made me curious, and I'm now wondering if I never noticed neither...

[Kira]

Originally posted by svdp:

What? Where? Yoy made me curious, and I'm now wondering if I never noticed neither...

Inside Mangar's Tower there is a secret door just left of the entrance. There are many clues including some snippets from the spirits you can summon. I found several fake doors and secret doors that don't lead anywhere until I finally found it...

[archcorenth]

Well, I'm pushing forward, guys. It's a bit odd that that the enemies in the next are so much easier than the enemies up until now. I suppose this is because of the director's cut changing the beginning as you said above?

[svdp]

Originally posted by archcorenth:

Well, I'm pushing forward, guys. It's a bit odd that that the enemies in the next are so much easier than the enemies up until now. I suppose this is because of the director's cut changing the beginning as you said above?

Not necessarily. There are some visuals and quality of life changes, some rare puzzlechanges, and of course the master-crafted weapons and the addition of the hearnhold dungeon, of course... But most of the in-game stuff remained the same.

What you're describing is the 'guidance' that the game gives you as to what path to take. If you suddenly encountering unbeatable enemies WAY stronger than you, you have entered an area or path where you aren't supposed to be yet. It's not literally blocked off, but you'll need to be very clever, strong, and lucky to succeed that path unless you're lebeled up quite a bit. If the ennemies are green or yellow - maybe orange - you're on the 'right' path. It's especially of note at the start in skara below, but gets less important or stringent later on, where one has more options of wandering off. Though red enemies with high numbers still remain difficult, of course.

But as you progress, and you get more partymembers and skills, and better gear as you go along, you can handle more stuff as well, so area's and paths where you once got beaten to a pulp, get doable when retrying them when you've improved.

[svdp]

Originally posted by Kira:

Originally posted by svdp:

What? Where? You made me curious, and I'm now wondering if I never noticed neither...

Inside Mangar's Tower there is a secret door just left of the entrance. There are many clues including some snippets from the spirits you can summon. I found several fake doors and secret doors that don't lead anywhere until I finally found it...

Not too sure what you mean. If it's at the entrance itself, I already found that one; it's not difficult to find?? Or maybe you mean something else that I missed. If you mean a bit further, the left door at that statue there... Didn't we check that out many months ago? The door can't be opened in the DC, and in the OG there is no door, but there is nothing to be found in that gangway neither...

🤔 If I want to check it out it's now or never, since I defeated redcap last week, and I was going past the hungering blade point this weekend, for the last achievement - and then it will be too late, I suppose.

It's certainly not impossible, though: I missed some secret rooms the first time I entered Hearnhold as well.

[Kira]

Originally posted by archcorenth:

Well, I'm pushing forward, guys. It's a bit odd that that the enemies in the next are so much easier than the enemies up until now. I suppose this is because of the director's cut changing the beginning as you said above?

As far as I can tell, DC didn't make any early game enemies harder that they were in OG.

If you mean that progressing in the game you encounter enemies that are easier for you than prior enemies were, it's most likely a good sign. Party strength in BT4 is mainly about synergies between the various abilities and items your characters possess and use, not so much about raw levels or even the raw stats from higher grade items. If you are getting stronger faster than the enemies are, it means you are doing a fine job finding these synergies.

If the game gets too easy, it's time to pump up the difficulty to keep your combat experience exciting. Or if you feel that a single ability or combo is dominating your gameplay, you may limit yourself from using it just to see what else is out there. The game has a ton of options and the level-up process is very honest, no hidden bonuses or miraculous boosts, just the one skill you purchase with your new skill point (and a handful of references to the character's "tier" in addition to the obvious available skill selection).

[archcorenth]

i put it on legendary difficulty. But these enemies in the first outside area can't damage my dwarf at all

[svdp]

Originally posted by archcorenth:

i put it on legendary difficulty. But these enemies in the first outside area can't damage my dwarf at all

Well, don't be too fast. Some complain about huge difficulty-spikes, so maybe you'll suddenly experience a too high difficulty as well, at some point.

Anyway, whete are you at, at the moment? Lowlands, inshiarch forest, hearnhold,..?

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

[archcorenth]

i passed through the first outdoor area with no real trouble. I did have to leave behind some Paladins at the end. Now I'm in the forest in the main storyline but returned to the underground part of the city to complete Mangar's tower, which I finished before I went to bed. It had some really cool visuals. I felt like i was in Amnesia Rebirth.

[svdp]

Originally posted by svdp:

Originally posted by Kira:

Inside Mangar's Tower there is a secret door just left of the entrance. There are many clues including some snippets from the spirits you can summon. I found several fake doors and secret doors that don't lead anywhere until I finally found it...

Not too sure what you mean. If it's at the entrance itself, I already found that one; it's not difficult to find?? Or maybe you mean something else that I missed. If you mean a bit further, the left door at that statue there... Didn't we check that out many months ago? The door can't be opened in the DC, and in the OG there is no door, but there is nothing to be found in that gangway neither...

🤔 If I want to check it out it's now or never, since I defeated redcap last week, and I was going past the hungering blade point this weekend, for the last achievement - and then it will be too late, I suppose.

It's certainly not impossible, though: I missed some secret rooms the first time I entered Hearnhold as well.

Kira, is it this what you meant? :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3475125729

[Kira]

Originally posted by svdp:

Kira, is it this what you meant? :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3475125729

I don't have the game installed at the moment (yes it can happen 😃) so I was trying to orient myself based on this image.

I didn't succeed... 😅

But basically the way I remember it's sort of like this:

_XXXXXXX-E-XXX-S3-XX
_X____*___*_____X
_X______________X
S1______________S2
_X______________X
_X____*___*_____X
_XXXXXXX-D-XXXXXXXX

E - entrance
D - door
X - wall
* - teleporter
S1-2-3 - secret doors
(edit: replaced spaces with underscores to show distance)

So you enter at the top, there's a door right in front of you, beside the two main doors you have the teleporters popping up as you progress (maybe only three not sure), you have one "secret" door each side with some pressure plates and stuff, but there's a third one just next to the entrance on the same wall, just right of the entrance itself if you're facing it.

Sorry if it's incorrect or if I misremember something, I'm going off hazy memory here.

[tiamats4esgares]

I absolutely love Operencia and I came to the forums there yesterday or the day before to ask about similar games, and someone mentioned Bard's Tale IV, then they realized afterward about that post you mention. Haha! So now I'll try BT4. No idea if it's better or worse than Operencia but glad to have a similar game to play.

My opinion, if it's not too late? Buy BT4, since it's on sale, and wait for Operencia to go on sale sometime and buy it in the future. :) Happy dungeoneering!