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Edit: at what part/quest are you getting clubbered? Where are you, now?
I was on the quest, find Dalgliesh. I was getting clobbered by the fatherite guards while I was trying to follow the quest arrows.
However, I finally solved it. I used the one mercenary token I found, and made a bard, that kept casting "sanctuary score" on himself, and was able to win the battle against the guards finally.
Been a while, but if I remember correctly, that's in skara above? I never had much trouble with that quest. Do note that, if some oponents are just too strong, you can sometimes bypass them, if you time your steps correctly, by using the stealth ability. The easiest way is with using it as masterskill of your rogue.
Aka: you can use certain skills/abilities also outside combat, thus. Some newbies fail to note this, so consider it a hint if you didn't find out yet. 🙂
Anyway, good to hear you managed. If you have other problems or questions, ask away. We're here to help. Well, some of us are.. others here just like to whine and complain incessantly. 😉
Also, feel free to browse/search the forum here; many topics have already been addressed in some form or way.
After that I was able to finish the fight. I'm actually doing much better now, and got past the next few quests after that one. Also now leveling much faster.
And thankyou for the help, and being friendly and helpful. Nice to see that this game has a friendly community.
You're welcome. And I wished that was true, but alas, there is a very small but vocal minority here, whom is actually quite toxic. They have nothing better to do than spout their misgivings, complaints and whinings around, constantly and incessantly, and that for the last 2 years, on this forum. I kid you not; they've been dwelling this forum of a game they don't like, for over two years now, reiterating ad nauseam how much they think it's crap.
But anyways, you can disregard them. Most here are very welcoming and helpful, indeed. It must be said however that, since the game has come out quite some time ago, not too many of the first players remain in this forum; chilkoot and me are probably the only ones left of the original BT4-pioneers, or at least those that still visit the most frequently to see if (new) people need help. But there are still others whom sporadically visit and respond in a helpful way. So feel free to ask away.
BTW, since you're new (maybe you already discovered it, maybe not), a small additional hint: be sure to check out some stuff, especially "special weapons" in your inventory (aka; inspect). You'll find there a surprise as well. Giving this hint, because I once saw a complete playthrough on youtube, where the guy didn't figure that out the whole time even until the end. ;-)
PS. ah yes, on difficult mode, that would explain it, then. I played most of it on normal, except for the King and Redcap in Haernhold, which I had to set on easy temporarily. Those bastards are *really* difficult. At least they were with my setup/party/skills. but we'll come to that when you arrive there. It's ill advised to enter Haernhold more than a few steps (until the pedestal) if you're not at least lvl 20, because it's a really high-level dungeon. To defeat all enemies, lvl 26-28 is advisable.
Of course, if you feel brave, you can try it out sooner, but chances are, you'll get your àss whooped, certainly on difficult. :-)
Now I am going thru the rest of the dungeon at level 23, on hard difficulty. The battles are fun and a bit challenging.
The funny thing is, I just read a review saying, the game is only playable with 3 dwarves in the front and 3 outlanders in the back, and I use none of those races on hard difficulty. Sometimes hard difficulty is too easy, so been thinking about switching to legendary at the end.
You would probably be surprised at some of my party skill choices, I still use some early level skills (find them better then the upper level skills), purposely never took Guardian on my warrior (think it sucks), etc.
Many had difficulties with the group of enemies (right after the bridge of light, as you say). I thought them readily do-able. I always had more difficulty with the giants/generals/big ones. Especially with Redcap and the King.
Yeah, the first one is ok around lvl 18-20-ish, the group after that as well (for me, at least), but most of the enemies thereafter are tough cookies if you're not lvl 22-28.
As for the review; he's partially right. I would say... For battling Redcap, outlanders are clearly an advantage. For battling the king, Dwarves are clearly an advantage. However, he's wrong if he claims it can ONLY be done that way. I've seen too many different recounts and stories of other players, and most of them had completely different party-make-ups, different mastery skills, different weapons, and different playstyles/tactics. Some had no trouble at all, and (claim that) they could beat redcap and the king easily in one go, even on legendary mode. Others gave up in frustration because they couldn't beat them. And others, like me, could handle the generals fine, but had to put it in easy mode for redcap and the king.
I had it pretty difficult against those two: I didn't have any of the racial advantages in my party, I didn't have the useful songs against them like Compulsory Carvotting, and I had two Bards who couldn't buff because they fell out of booze, and I'd gone past the Hungering Blade point. ;-)
Speaking of which: did you pass that point, yet?
I am now on my 3rd playthrough (on Normal) and I just made short work of all the guardians and the king, but I wasn't able to do to it in one go. I was able to defeat the ancestor at the door at level 20 but could not beat the 3 waves of enemies right after you cross the bridge. I was finally able to beat them when I was level 24/almost level 25. The I proceeded to fight the other enemies and the guardians.
I have a dwarf warrior tank, a 2h outlander warrior, Baedish bard, two elf mages (both nukers), and a trow rogue (dagger abilities with coldcock). The cavorting song plus the lute helps a lot with some of these fights. I think the redcap would be impossible to beat without it. Just keep it dancing and give it everything you got. Anyway, I just finished Haernhold in my last play session and that's the group I ran with and I had very little difficulty with these fights with the team I used.
Granted I'm only playing on Normal, but I wasn't even able to get that far the first time I played on easy. I'm not sure if it will work on Hard and above but I plan on playing again once I finish this save and bumping up the difficulty.
I think it's a pretty decent game, it took a bit of getting used to but I'm enjoying it so far. All I have left to do now is Hungering Blade and the rest. I don't have far to go now. Yes, I'm not ashamed to say I plan on abusing Struggler's Lament when I get to the final showdown, haha.
"Many had difficulties with the group of enemies (right after the bridge of light, as you say). I thought them readily do-able. I always had more difficulty with the giants/generals/big ones. Especially with Redcap and the King."
Well remember I was trying to stick with hard mode, and when my group was level 18, it was too hard to do that group in "hard" mode. I didn't try to do it in normal mode. I try to stick with hard mode for most of the game, because I like challenging fights. I may even try legendary just to see if I can do it.
I was able to do that group in hard mode at level 23. And almost the rest of the dungeon is pretty doable in hard mode at level 23. I didn't get to the final boss fight yet, and I won't be level 23 when I do. I already leveled once to 24, just from the enormous amount of experience I'm getting clearing everything I run into.
My party might be a bit weird, but I think it really works well. Not trying to brag, instead I'm just happy that I am doing well, and with a party I designed on my own to use every skill as best as possible. I never judge a skill as better just because it is a top tier skill, instead I judge each skill individually.
I think I can do around 1000 damage in the very first turn of combat (assuming nobody in my group dies), but never added it up exactly, which is why hard mode is getting a little too easy. I have one bard who is Baed, and two practioners who are Baed, and two warriors (including one that is a paladin) who are Einarr, and the only non-human, is my trow Rogue.
I originally made a practioner who was elf, but didn't provide any real benefits. I wanted to get my practioners up to archmage ASAP, so I switched to Baed for both of them. The practioners, since they were Baed, already had archmage around level 15 or 16 (forget what level I got it at).
I originally used spectre touch, twice in one turn by using both of them, and also would summon two herbs at once using both practioners. Two herbs would really put out the damage in the earlier levels of my group. Now I replaced herb with the skeletons and the necromancer tome. Since the skeletons summon instantly. I think one time I had the skeleton with the bow doing up to 300 damage with rain of arrows, and up to 400 health. I keep summoning them, and using the ability to add strength and health to the other one, by sacrificing one. The one battle in Haernfold, my entire group died, there were still 4 enemy mobs left, and the skeleton by himself killed them all :) Not joking. Fortunately that battle, it was not enemy skeletons, so once they died, they stayed dead. So I was able to finish the remaining 4 mobs off, with just good old skellie being the only remaining member of my group :)
My rogue can do I think more then 250 damage in one hit, when I use a combination of all out assault, hide in shadows (also gives you a 20% bonus in damage), then finally coldcock. And this is "true" damage, so goes right thru armor.
Then I use either spectre touch or warstrike (which hits two mobs at once). And remember I have two practioners.
The warriors do up to 100 damage if they take damage, since Einarr gain strength the more damage they take. Sometimes I even seen them do 150 or more damage in one hit, if they live long enough and take enough damage.
I am wearing boots on both of my warriors that prevent stun (immunity to stun), and I never missed not having dwarves or outlanders anywhere in my group.
My skill choice and equipment might be weird to some, but I actually spend dozens of hours trying to fine tune it.
The warriors job in my group is to move mobs around by using taunt. So they can line them up, for my practioners to spectre touch or my rogue to do the combination I listed above which does over 250 damage. For spectre touch I need to move the practioner to front, but then I move them back to the back row afterwards.
Both of my practioners use the sorcerer boots that are +1 spell points upon moving which I find helpful. And I also have the archmage armor on both practioners.
My paladin only uses these cleric skills: Holy, fanatical, righteous. That gives the healing and bonus damage.
The biggest irony in my group is the bard has the highest health of the group members (not counting summoned skeletons, of course). My bard has 113 health at level 23. My highest health warrior is only at 67 health. My bard uses Officer's Mail, but I went with Full Plate on both warriors. I never took guardian skill, I don't want my warriors taking damage that only looks at 1/3rd of their armor. And a lot of battles, the warriors live longer and that wins it for me. I don't think guardian skill would work, the way I play it. If I did something that the warriors died faster, then that would probably of made it a lot harder for the battles.
My bard does have compulsory cavorting, and even has the instrument that allows the mob to stay cavorted if the mob takes damage. But most of the time, I don't use that, except for certain battles (and not very many at that). Most of the time on my bard, I use Kael's Rudiment and Sanctuary Score.
My main damage comes from the two practioners and the rogue. And I never expected the rogue to be one of my main damage characters when I started designing the group. The warriors can do a lot of damage when they take a lot of damage, and I use lumbering strike and the 40% plus damage weapon for lumbering strike. Gotten it up to 150 and sometimes higher then that, damage in one strike on my warriors. Also I taken the shield skills (which work, even if you are have two weapons in both hands), that will block some damage and stun the attacker on a critical. And I also took the skills to wield a two handed weapon in one hand, and another main hand weapon in the other hand. There are a lot of nice "master" level weapon drops, but I still use a lot of puzzle weapons on my chars, despite being a bit lower strength then the "master" weapon drops, because of the added benefits from the puzzle weapons.
Its not uncommon, when my Rogue does the 250 damage (using the combo above) that he stuns either one enemy or the entire enemy team (thanks to one of the two puzzle weapons he has equipped). The other puzzle weapons I use on other chars do 4 stacks of poison, or puts the team on fire, or drops caltrops of temporal cabbages.
Sorry for the long post, didn't expect it to be this hard to explain a little bit about my group makeup. If you read up to this point, then you get a gold star for patience and reading skills :) Just a tiny bit more to go, then the post will be done. (really, I don't lie!)
To answer another comment: "Speaking of which: did you pass that point, yet?"
I know about the hungering blade. The one that suppose to destroy the null thing right? I went to Haernfold before starting on that quest. The main quest line was getting too easy, so wanted to try Haenfold before my group got much higher in level. Haenfold is pretty challenging on hard mode, at level 23. But as I said, I just leveled to 24.
I didn't get to the king or anything in Haenfold yet, and not sure if I have to do the main quest line or if I am suppose to do anymore of the main quest line before finishing the Haenfold dunegon. I just went to that dungeon for a little bit of a detour and to have a little challenge, before going back to the main quest line.
One more thing I will respond to:
"I have a dwarf warrior tank, a 2h outlander warrior, Baedish bard, two elf mages (both nukers), and a trow rogue (dagger abilities with coldcock). The cavorting song plus the lute helps a lot with some of these fights. I think the redcap would be impossible to beat without it. Just keep it dancing and give it everything you got. Anyway, I just finished Haernhold in my last play session and that's the group I ran with and I had very little difficulty with these fights with the team I used."
I was focusing on responding to Svdp and explaining my group, and didn't fully read your post to after I almost finished mine. You have the same makeup as me, with two warriors, bard, and two mages, and a rogue. I actually kept the original Rogue they gave you in the game, I think his name was Wringneck, but kept changing the skills. But we do a lot of things different. I found elf to be almost useless for a practioner. Intelligence didn't help much at all, maybe it prevents your channeling from being interrupted. But the thing is, I have very high intelligence, just from what I gain from armor and equipment. So was no point taking an elf. Then an elf is +1 spell points, which is totally pointless. That is just "maximum" spell points. And you only really need enough maximum spell points to cast the spells at the time. My one practioner has 12 spell points and the other has 15 spell points, and they are not elves. And they have both have 23 intelligence. This is all from equipment mostly. So I found that you get plenty of intelligence and spell points from just the equipment you find. I went with Baed instead of Elf on my practioners, because you are effectively 3 levels higher then other races. Since you get 3 extra skill points, one at level 3, 10 and 18. I'm not trying to put down elves in this game, but they do seem kind of pointless when you get enough intelligence and skill points from the equipment you wear. I just found Baeds and the extra skill points very useful, so you are effectively a higher level.
Probably other differences in setup. But I was pretty surprised that you had the same type of characters that I did, but just different races, and probably many different equipment and skill choices. I didn't see you mention using the necromancer tome or trying to create super skeletons with 400 health who do 300 damage to 3 different targets at once :) So we do things a little differently, and that is good. Because I like games where there are many different "right" ways to do things.
Also i don't mean to sound like I'm bragging, instead it is just pride in my little group of odd ball adventurers, that despite being very weird and strange, and do things a bit differently, they still get the job done :) This is my first play through, so hoping it goes well, but so far I am happy with how I'm doing and as I said, proud of my little ragtag group of adventurers.
You mean like this? It's just using the arrow (upper right corner of the comment you want to reply to); it says "quote your post in your reply". Or, you can use brackets and "quote" and slash quote (also in brackets, of course) to end it.
Anyway, what a whopper of a comment! I like it! ;-) But it's pretty late, so I'll read it up tomorrow evening. :-)
I've been playing around with different classes and builds to see what fits/works for me and I very well might try Baed mages when I start a new game on Hard. I'm pretty sure I'm ready to give it a try and I would like to try Legendary in the future too, I always love a good challenge. The weapons you find after beating those guardians are amazing. I hang onto the puzzle weapons too. I don't think I'll ever tire of the one that hits enemies with cabbages, haha.
I also find it interesting about party lineups and what works for different playstyles. There's no one size fits all, which is a good thing!
You might want to look into Warstrike. I find it a lot of times to be better then Spectre Touch. It does around half the damage of Spectre Touch, but it hits 2 mobs at the same time (so total damage, when you add up the two hits, is almost as much total damage as Spectre Touch) and you can hit mobs like spell casters who like to hide in the back without first having to taunt them to come closer then moving your practioner up front to touch them, then having to move another char into their place so they go back into the back row. All this takes a lot of action points when using Spectre Touch to target a particular mob where you have to taunt them, move your practioner and then move another char, so he goes back to the back row again. So warstrike is often better. Also in hard mode, monsters have a lot more health and do a lot more damage then in normal mode, so you have to kill them off fast. I can get 3 spell points available to use to cast a spell at the very beginning of turn one on each of my practioners, then cast double warstrikes, which will hit two different monsters for around 280 damage each. Then finish off the remaining hit points on those mobs, next turn. Warstrike does almost as much total damage as Spectre Touch, costs 1 less spell point (only 3 spell points to use), and can be casted at range without having the mob right next to the practioner. Now Warstrike won't go thru armor as well as Spectre Touch, since Warstrike is physical. But right now, my practioners could do around 300 damage with Spectre Touch and 142 damage to two seperate mobs with Warstrike (total of 284 physical damage with Warstrike). And many of the mobs that like to hide in the back row do not have much armor, so it works well, even though its physical damage.
I don't think I used any of the weapons that I got from the guardians, I didn't like any so far. I did find armor that was a tiny bit better then what I already had. I rather keep the puzzle weapons. Even if a "master" made weapon (those blue weapons) have 5 or 6 more strength then a puzzle weapon, the extra strength doesn't justify using them for me, since the benefits of the puzzle weapon outweigh them. I will poison, set on fire, rend the armor, throw catrops or temporal cabbages at them, and often stun enemies, because of the puzzle weapons that every character has equipped. Even though not using those "blue" master weapons that drop from the guardians, means I have a little less strength, I still think my group is stronger by not using them and sticking with the puzzle weapons.
The only master level "blue" stuff that I use, is all the armor that my chars wear, and most of my armor is blue "master" level stuff. The instrument on my bard is a blue master level item. The shield on my one warrior is a blue "master" level shield (one warrior uses a shield, the other one equips two weapons). The rest of my weapons are puzzle weapons, with a couple exceptions. The warrior that carries two weapons, has one puzzle weapon but the second weapon is that a blue master level weapon that increases lumbering charge damage by 40%. Since he is an Einarr that has an exponential effect, as his strength goes up, that +40% damage gets higher and higher. My one practioner uses the blade that does the vampirism ability, and grants 3 spell points. I use that on her to finish off a monster, and get an instant 3 spell points. You have to use it, when you get the kill, so you get the extra 3 spell points. My bard has no skills for combat, so I gave him that Spectre Touch, and while I almost never attack with my bard, once in a blue moon, a mob will have a few points of health left, and instead of attacking it and wasting the abilities of a more powerful character, I use the Spectre Touch on my bard, that does a whopping maximum of 13 damage (no joke) but despite the tiny amount of damage it does, it goes thru armor because it is true damage and is useful to just finish off a mob that has a few points of health left, without wasting the skills of another character to do it.
Wait, beguzzles... where you talking about this dude and his review??:
"Do not buy this game if you like to just play a game, This game requires you do the exact things with these exact races and classes and powers, you fail/. It is literally on a RPG on rails, and if you don't make the IDEAL everything, you lose. I managed to take my non ideal team (ideal = 3 dwarves front, 3 outlanders back) all the way to the 2nd mangar fight, if you aren't running ideal, good luck. There is no fun to be had in a game that forces specific builds and such nonsense. Why bother with character creation and such if your game is designed to force everyone to use the same cookie cutter nonsense. "
HAHAHA! Man, that's hilarious. And sad as well. In fact, I'm not sure if to laugh or cry. ;-)
What a load of nonsense. And it's with such rubbish that other people then have to make a balanced decision... geez.
It's complete crap. So, ok: as I said, those races do give you a slight advantage against Recap (outlanders) and the king (dwarves), but they're certainly not pivotal to vanquish any one of them.
But even worse, he's talking about Mangar! Mangar!! ;-)
You could do - and many have done - that with any number of different party-setups, with relative ease, even! So what is that guy even talking about? It's like he's projecting his own incompetence or unwillingness to try new things and blame it on the game...
Look, MYRIADS of players have beaten Mangar with completely different setups than what he's describing as "absolutely necessary" and "needing ideal" party. I know, because I've done so myself, at least 3-4 times, and I don't think I had ever more then one outlander and/or dwarven, and some parties had none. It's asinine to claim it's the games fault, when his claim is obviously and factually wrong.
I don't mind critique of the game, where critique is (measured and) due, but this is just nonsense, and he's venting his own frustration caused by a lack of effort, and pretends it's the games' fault, and then gives a wrong impression of the game to other people. It does piss me somewhat of, that.
Anyway, as you and kittybass have experienced yourself now, it's *perfectly* do-able to beat Mangar with as good as any party-setup.
In fact, I've heard people claim they used 6 bards composed of Baeds and Fichti, and also managed to end the game.
Weird but true: I never used the spectre touch, until the very end in Haernhold, then I used it like crazy. It was one of the main victory-reasons I defeated the king. My only problem was keeping him 'the mage) alive long enough to be able to get a whopping ass-kick out of it.
I did use it in combination with a dwarven weapon, though. What was it again? something that let you augment your damage even more the longer you waited before hitting... forgot the name, been too long..
I'm trying to have a third playthrough, but it's been slow, because I've also decided to play DOS EE (I had played DOs years ago, but never the EE version I got for free later on)? but now I want to have another taste, so I'll be ready when Baldur's Gate 3 finished version comes out. which I probably will buy new/full price, which is a rare thing for me as well.
I've read you(s) comments in that regard, and like you two, I mostly buy games when they're cheap. Truth be told, it's not because of finances or anything like you guys described, but... well... I'm a bit of a hoarder. Maybe even more so than a player. I just can't keep myself from buying games if they're on promo with -75% of more. ;-) Especially if they are RTS or RPG's, or civilization-type games.
And well, since I'm not THAT a big player, I still have like.... 700-800 games to play. When will I ever play that??! :-/
So... I seldom buy new games, since I already have such a huge backlog, and I find games of even several years old quite still good, actually - also visually. I think most games made from 2010 onwards age pretty decently most of the time.
so, I only buy games "new" and at full price, if I really, really want to play them. (Or if I'm a kickstarter, like with BT4, but even there I had a reduction, because I was an "early bard get's the wyrm" backer.) So, well, Baldurs Gate 3 is something that really interests me, their former games were quite good - going back to divine divinity, even. And in fact, I happen to know Larian Studios quite well.
The other one I always buy when it comes out is TES. Been waiting an awful long time on the sixth installment...
For the rest: I usually wait until they're cheap/in promotion, just like you guys do, albeit maybe for other reasons. And boy... I mean, you can do REALLY good deals sometimes: great games for the price of a pint, and such. The entertainment versus cost can be quite amazing.
Even when I watched a person's videos on Legendary I thought some of his decisions and tactics were a bit strange, but he got the job done and it worked for him. There are so many ways to play and there is no exact method to doing it. It's whatever fits a person's playstyle. I would say there is no right or wrong way, but clearly there is a wrong way if you only play with dwarfs and outlanders and think it's a struggle, lol.