BARD'S TALE IV: Party-setups / Strategies / Tactics

[svdp]

All the fundamentals of how one can play The Bard's Tale 4 and with what results.

[svdp]

Ok, So I'll start, then. I hope this thread can grow further into a central deposit of different tactics and strategies people have used. :-)

So, for my first playthrough, which was with the original game (Barrows Deep):

Party-setup:

- 2 fighters (front), 2 mages (back), 1 bard (usually front), 1 bard (usually back)

Playstyle:

On my first play, the original, I went for the most typical and classical of party-setups. You know; the 2 fighters, 2 mages, 1 bard and 1 rogue -thing. You can do about everything with that setup - from fighting to getting drunk (some quests need it) to opening chests (rogue). It went pretty well, had little to no trouble indeed. Aside from the traditional partymember-setup, I also picked the more classical pose (fighters in front, mages and bards at the back, bard predominantly for buffs) and also the weapons and skills that seemed to be the strongest (on paper, at least ;-)). I did had a quite peculiar way of using my bard, though (people commented on that in the past), which was to make sure or at least try my damnest best to NOT get him drunk. Back then, I saw the drunken state more of a bother than an aid, and I wanted to keep my "flow" constantly going without interruptions - which didn't work if you got stupified of drunkiness. I found the benefits not outweighing the disadvantages, with the playingstyle I used back then. And as said, it worked quite well.

Heavily relying on the mages here, with combo of Feather Charm and dropping enemies in the firepillar(s) (bard had the horn), extensive use of the mark-spell, and Mangar's Mind Jab. One was STR based, the other (Elven) was INT based. Thought the two-mages setup coupled with the buffs and flamepillar of the bard, was a *very* strong combo, here. Offensive wise, this was unbeatable - but back then some spells were a bit OP, and got nerfed in the DC. Still, I think that, with 3 mages, if you can keep them alive long enough, you'd really have a powerhouse for offensive attacks, even for enemies in the back.

Fighters mostly heavy armor and using either the ancient weapons, or the Elven Puzzle weapons, for the most part. Tried very little of the melting and/or armor rend weapons/skills, though. Little use of taunt as well (thought it pretty useless, back then ;-)), nor use of foe dropper or coldcock. Basically, it was a brute force approch with my fighters: heavy defense for tanking, and strong but straigthforward physical hits with their weapons. Since I found the paladin VERY late in this first playthrough, most of the game was with ordinary fighters (the MC dwarf and an Einarr, I believe).


Second playthrough, with the DC:

- 2 fighters/tanks (in front), 1 mage (sideways front or back), 1 rogue (mostly front), and two bards (back)


On my second playthrough, to stay fresh, I tried to change as much as possible, so I changed many characters, and also my party-setup: now with two bards (I dabbled in other compositions too, but I settled on this one). Now playing the bards more without worry ("we're with two now, after all!") and drinking rivers of booze. ;-) Which later would bite me back in the ass. :-p but generally speaking, this time my tactic was for more buff-oriented (due to the bards).

Now, I still had no major problems. Most enemies were reasonably easy. Only ever had a few deaths, and for a whole party-wipe-out... it was pretty rare I had to start over. I think I did have to do it a few times, for instance with Yadis in the original, because in the beginning I didn't quite realize how utter important it was to directly destroy his summons as fast as possible.

But really, I had little difficulty nor complaints in winning my battles, and I was always puzzled by the exclaims of others of impossible-to-win fights, in area's I had even trouble remembering if there had been any difficult enemy there.

But with Haernhold, and especially the king and redcap, I really had difficulties. By that time, I was way beyond the hungering-blade-point, and I fell without any booze! And I didn't use your vorpal/melting weapons... frankly.. it never occurred to me to use those, because by then, I had the dwarven weapons, and those seemed so vastly superior, at least on paper. It's always interesting to see how many other styles and setups other players use, where one would originally think: well, obviously I've choosen the better option. Turns out this is not the case, or at least, it depends on the circumstances/opponents.

For instance, with both playthroughs, I never actually done much with the summoning skillbranch of the mages. It just seemed.. underpowered.. to me. But maybe I'm wrong there too. I should test it out the next time.

In any case, far more use of buffs (bards) and with my fighters far more use of headknocker (was surprised it was so useful!), foe dropper (good in tactically getting an enemy hit AND put him at a good spot for yet another hit by another party-member). For the Rogue; the combo Stealth + coldcock turned out to be *very* powerful, indeed. Also extensive use of taunt, this time around. With one firepillar and 2-3 members having taunt, one could get several enemies burst in flames, and even let 1-2 enemies accumulate firedamage by letting him pass through the firepillar several times. Also made use of the Dwarven Weapons (in Haernhold) and master-crafted weapons (both were not there in the original game, but are in the DC).

All in all, a far more subtle and tactical play was needed here. Didn't use vorpal, and only minimal use of bladecasting. At least one fighter (the most strong one) had Last Breath. Ideal for finishing off a mid/end-boss quickly when he's already damaged, or for the leader/strong opponent hiding in a mob. Last Breath doesn't seem so strong at the start, but since it scales with STR, the more your character gets stronger and stronger, the higher your threshold value becomes where you can one-shot an enemy. With extremely high-STR characters, this really becomes a must-have, imho. It saved my hide numerous times.


Third playthrough (DC):

- 2 fighters (front), 2 rogues (one back, one front), 1 bard (mostly back), 1 mage (mostly back)

I'm not too far in this playthrough, so things may change yet, but the main purpose is to finally try the stuff out I didn't try before (because in the end, I didn't much use the summoning branch and some other things in my second playthrough neither, like vorpal or bladecasting. I made only sporadic use of bow/arrow as well, as of yet, so maybe that too.

I'll edit things further here, as I go along, or I remember certain things.

[Kittybass]

I'm the traditional sort too. As with most RPGs I play, I go with two fighters, two mages, a rogue and a bard. I generally have one warrior tanking and a 2h to break armor and crush things.

I have stuck with this set up in the couple of playthroughs I've done so far, but changing the skills and tactics around.

I mostly use my bard as pure support, buffing and healing allies. If I make a bard early, then they will take on a fighting role until more party slots become available.

In my first playthrough I mostly focused on archery for my rogue but then I realized in the next game that daggers are the way to go. I don't really bother with archery too much.

I believe my first game had 2 warriors and the bard in the front row, then rogue and mages in the back. Now I put the bard in the back and the rogue in front.

I prefer nuker mages, mostly because I love explosions. I might try battle mages out at some point. I had a bit of a struggle with Crux in this current game on Hard because he's so squishy he might have not as well been there at all. It kind of put me off wanting to try building my own.

And I mentioned this in another thread how I enjoy playing ping pong with bleeding enemies by having my tank do an Eviscerating Gash (or whatever it's called), knock it back with foe dropper, taunt it forward, then have my other warrior taunt it over that way in the hopes that the enemy bleeds out along the way.

I like trying out different tactics and strategies but I try not to focus so much on it that it becomes unenjoyable. I always try to find a balance of fun/interesting and one that works for my playstyle. However, I do like pushing myself to the limits and making things more difficult each time I play, but that goes for every game, not just this one.

In my first playthrough I didn't have a clue about how the puzzle weapons unlocked. Then when I figured that out I thought I would have a nervous breakdown doing the slider puzzles but I like them now. I also like the little music ones. Bang a little tune out on Mangar's bones, because why not? And Temporal Cabbages will never get old. They are an endless source of amusement!

[Kittybass]

I guess I wrote my post at the same time as the other replies. I wandered off to go do something. As far as my setup , I love playing to the best of my ability and will try and try until I do, but I think this game is so versatile that there's many ways to achieve the same goal.

For instance, I've watched a few different Legendary Hearnhold videos and they all do things differently, have different skill sets, different lineups, different gear. It works for them. If something feels clunky/awkward to me, then I will try another way until I find something that feels right for me and keep trying until I get it right.

I've always been the sort that can beat games on nightmare or whatever the highest level of a particular game is, but I probably do it in the most inefficient and sloppy way possible, but that's my way. I just have fun with it. :P

[svdp]

Originally posted by Kittybass:

I guess I wrote my post at the same time as the other replies. I wandered off to go do something. As far as my setup , I love playing to the best of my ability and will try and try until I do, but I think this game is so versatile that there's many ways to achieve the same goal.

For instance, I've watched a few different Legendary Hearnhold videos and they all do things differently, have different skill sets, different lineups, different gear. It works for them. If something feels clunky/awkward to me, then I will try another way until I find something that feels right for me and keep trying until I get it right.

I've always been the sort that can beat games on nightmare or whatever the highest level of a particular game is, but I probably do it in the most inefficient and sloppy way possible, but that's my way. I just have fun with it. :P

Haha... well, I'm rather the guy who always starts a game on "normal" and "vanilla", before I even consider a more difficult mode, or install mods. Main reason is, though, that I first want to experience the game as the devs envisioned it. What *they* considered to be "normal" and what they made of it. To experience it as it is, as it were. I always find that pretty important, to get a taste of it, as the original creators made it.. After that, ofcourse, I just do whatever I fancy. ;-)

[Kittybass]

Same as me. I played my first game on Easy. There was so much to learn and I went in completely blind, googling stuff along the way. I was lost for a good part of the first game. I like to take my time to learn the mechanics and also take in the story. I played the trilogy so I was invested in it for the story aspect as well as the combat.

I liked how there were some low key troll moments when you first started out. Kylearan's Tower, the silver shapes, puzzles, traps, magic mouths. I was waiting for a huge area of darkness to come next, but thankfully that never happened, lol. Then Mangar's Tower and getting the Spectre Snare. That was a fun little side quest and I loved the build up and music. It really blew me away with the music and scenery.

its a shame there really isn't much use for the Strifespear because that's a difficult quest and one of the party members said it best when he said "All that for a pointy stick?" and I was like "Yeah, tell me about it!"

I love all aspects of the game, the characters, the story, the combat, the humor. And yes, I found Farmer Killop in Haernhold in my current save. I'm currently trying to kill the Enraged Redcap with the weapon he gave me!

[svdp]

As for for the question whether or not one can use the "same strategies" from lvl 1 to 28... if one mean skills; yes, one can, that's largely true. Respeccing is not always necessary. In the first playthrough, you *couldn't* even respec: a detail many new players aren't even aware of anymore. In the second one, I did respec, but not often, end mostly just to try things out for a while. I only change my styles in a major and permanent way when I play different playthroughs. but, well, one must realize other players play differently; not all are going to swap out everything, if everything is working out just fine.

In fact, the only time I felt the *need* (not the fancy) to try to respec, is in Haernhold with the King and Redcap, but by that time, I was passed the hungering blade point, and for the longest time couldn't passed the enraged Redcap, so that didn't really help out neither. In fact, some masteryskills, like last breath, get better with time, and you'd be quite foolish to change it later on (imho). there were some minor changes that I kept, but those weren't as much pat of low, mid or high level, but rather on the kind of enemies I was facing. For instance, with the skeleton-mobs, I found respeccing with Mangars' mallet and mark and such, more viable. But thus, that was because of the specific strategy against skeleton mobs as I described (aka, the fact they can resurrect which makes a war of attrition hard).

[Beguzzles]

See my response in the other thread.

And its okay to post what you want in my strategy thread. I edited that one comment, to say that it is just an encouragement to do it that way. I tried to explain why I am trying to encourage that structure, but it isn't written in stone, and I don't take offense at someone not following it. The structure wasn't suppose to be for my benefit, since I played the game long enough now, but for new players who might get confused. I explained that in the other thread.

[svdp]

Potential Changing Tactics (part 1: skeletons)

Sometimes, you'll do well to change some of the playstyle/combat-tactics depending on the enemies. For instance, when going to Stennish Isles, you'll encounter hordes of Skeletons. The problem here is, that they always respawn/summon themselves as long as one is standing. this makes a "war of attrition" with these groups pretty dangerous. The change in tactic that I thought most useful here is to make sure you slowly dwindle their life gradually WITHOUT killing them. And when they're ALL pretty low, gather up everything and just go on a spree of mayhem, killing every single one of them in one go.

Since you dwindled them down to a small snippet of HP (each) during the turns before (normally 1-3 rounds should be enough, depending on how strong they are (green/yellow/orange/red)), and then they're ripe for the plucking, and you can wipe the whole horde out in one turn. Magical mark can be very useful here, but pay attention, since if one skeleton explodes, it's sometimes difficult to see how it will affect all the other exploding marks on the enemies next to it and vice versa. Before you know it, they die that way, and then get resurrected.

On my third playthrough, on "hard", it's easier to do it this way, though on "normal", if ones' defense was not too weak, you could fairly easily just brute-force you way through it as well, since the skeletons only resurrect with half to two-thirds of their original HP. Still, if you're taking too long, the war of attrition is ultimately won by them, if you're not strong enough. Brains over brawns! ;-)

[Shneekey]

So, here's a few things I found that work for me.

Early game, up to the point that you leave the city:

Start with Bard. Snap up Rhyme of Duotime and Spellsong, head to Elven armor for defenses. Maybe pick up Head Knocker, but you'll respec out of it later. Kael's Rudament can be another early game temporary pick, to punish enemies for attacking your party, but you'll ditch it after helping Archmage Alduin deal with Mangar the first time. Also, pick up the Flame Horn from the AG. Early game, pillars of flame can be enormously damaging.

Wringneck gets an immediate respec, completely ignoring archery crits in favor of sword crits, Strop, and Storm of Blades. This combo can absolutely delete things in the early game, although its usefulness wanes towards endgame.

Dalgleish gets Head Knocker, Sundering Smash, Storm of Blades, and Taunt. Deflect is something to sub in until you have these. Start using a cudgel to reduce cost of head knocker. You'l be swapping out for an arming sword later, so if you find another good one, keep it. Armor is especially effective against multi-hit attacks like Storm of Blades, so his job is to get rid of it.

Green Lady is my pick for getting yeeted, because you get Crux immediately thereafter, and I prefer Outsider to Elf for my casters since DoTs are a big way to lose them and Outsiders are immune to it.

Crux starts with Arcane Barrage, Levitate, Charged Bolt, and Warstrike. And will more or less keep these skills throughout the entirety of the game. Pick up Conjurer's Mark ASAP then head to Vorpal Blade. We'll get to why in the next section.

With Wringneck being able to Strop + Storm of Blades, he's your big heavy hitter in the early game. Your Bard will support with Rhyme of Duotime to refresh Storm of Blades. Dalglish is your tank, make use of Taunt to keep others safe and to reposition enemies. Kael's can be used to punish enemies for attacking you. Strop also works on the Charged Bolt skill you can give Wringneck by equipping him with the Apprentice Gloves you pick up after Mangar goes away.

Mid-Game to endgame:

Once you get access to Brian and the final tier of skills, we look at what will be our end-game setup.

Fighters get Veteran and suddenly become the damage output. Also gets Champion to dual-wield a Longsword (normally a 2h weapon, for sunder doubling and sweeping blow cost reduction) and Arming Sword. Skills will be Storm of Blades, Sundering Smash, Taunt, and either Sweeping Blow or Chant depending on if you can find a decent Longsword. Also don't neglect the sword crit skills for a 20% chance of refreshing Storm of Blades on use to immediately use it again. Head down the plate mail armor line, but you don't need to spec shields. Cleric tree on the far right has some passives that grant bonus max spell points, these will be useful.

Bard dumps Kael's, picks up a set of pipes to finally replace the fire horn, and goes in the center rear of your formation. Uses Spellsong to give the tanks spell points, plus Grand Minstrel spell point bonus, to charge up Veteran. Veteran bonus applies per attack, and is True Damage which ignores shielding. The two most important skills used will be Rhyme of Duotime to refresh Storm of Blades on the party and Spellsong to further increase mana of the whole party so that both the casters and the fighters will be able to do more damage. Going into Haernhold, you might want to invest in a Lyre and do the Cavorting trick for the bosses.

If your Bard is going Cavorting, there's another trick, using a combination of Chant and Warhorn to share the Chant stance with the party. This increases spell point regen of your casters, always worthwhile, and both your fighters for more damage via Veteran.

Both casters get Vorpal Blade, specifically for Draining Blade buff for the fighters. Then the fighters taunt a caster in front of them, and Storm of Blades, hitting three times, and draining each time. This fills up their spell point pool so they're now dealing like +15 bonus True Damage each hit (or even more!), and also neutering the caster's ability to be effective, and forcing most caster types to start meditating. Casters get Arcane Barrage to pop meditate and other concentration effects, one of them gets Gaufroi's Wand to also use Arcane Barrage to spread Melting stacks for even more bonus damage per hit on Storm of Blades.

At this point, the rogue's damage is now waning, but there's a couple of weapons he can pick up to help. One is the bow in the frozen castle that applies melting to help him keep up damage output, another would be the bow that gets poison stacks. Not that you'll be using any bow skills, but the bow goes in the offhand slot anyway.

In short, you'll be using the fighters to Sunder armor, and the caster with Gaufroi's to Arcane Barrage to sunder armor and apply melting stacks, then Storm of Blades to absolutely delete everything in your way. Vorpal Blade enchant on your tanks is used when dealing with casters to remove their ability to hurt you and more rapidly increase their damage output via Veteran. Bard supports both of these with Rhyme of Duotime and Spellsong, occasionally Cavorting to stunlock bosses.