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1: Yes, there is a reference to Haernhold in the main story line as the "Dwarven Realm", and you send one of your characters there as an envoy early in the game. You find the remains of that character in the Dwarven Ruins that connect the Baedish Lowlands and the Insriarch forest. Haernhold is written as more of a crypt for the first Dwarven King (think of Durin's tomb from Lord of the Rings).
It looks like both were supposed to be one big area in the original design, but with budget constraints, the Dwarven realm was never fully fleshed out. InXile was able to add in that content once they were picked up by Microsoft and received an influx of money to "finish" the game correctly.
2. No idea about the chests, but I've accidentally read spoilers that there is a key after the boss. Where are you seeing these chests? I seldom miss things like this, so I'm concerned (compulsive completionist).
3. I don't think there is any way around the 910-level fight. I was able to get past it with a level 25 group, but it was challenging. General rule is to focus on mages to keep them stunned or controlled, or neuter them with something like the Discipline weapon that removes spell points. I also made heavy use of the levitate spell. If you're really stuck, you can turn down the difficulty to Easy for just that encounter.
Good luck - I'm interested to hear more about where you found these dwarven chests!
also @andreas
1) Yep, as said, there's a reference to Haernhold, but you're not directed there by an explicit quest, much like the dwarven ruin you just happen to stumble upon it exploring, though with Haernhold, you can find it quite easily once you have the standing stones song. Of course, one is far to noob at that point to actually be able to beat the first (metal) guardian there. Though I guess you can have a quick peek-around at the very start of the dungeon, if you're carefull not to come too close to the guardian. Normally, you can reach the statue for skill-change, for instance.
I would dispute your last claim, though. Haernhold was as good as finished before there was even talk about MS taking over. Well, unless they'd started secret talks and sponsoring way before it became official, but I doubt either of us knows about such privy info. I do think it's possible they wanted to make a bigger expansion and make a paid DLC out of it, but they shelved that idea (if they had it) and got a (possibly) more reduced DLC, but free for everyone who already bought it.
Though... come to think about it, it was supposed to be in there from the start if we had met a threshold, so maybe it was supposed to be free from the start as well. My guess is they started working on it pretty soon, and thought they were going to get the threshold, but when they didn't, they had already most of the work done, so they continued anyway, as a bonus to those who backed/bought the game.
2) I have an idea. ;-)
Yes, they are in a chest behind the king, and thus, you must first kill the King of Haernhold, which is *extremely* difficult. The king and Redcap of Haernhold are the only two times I had to put the game on easy mode, to be able to win against them, and even then I had to try 28 times. As to where.. well, I can't remember them all anymore, but most (3-4?) were at Haernhold themselves, then you have one you can reach much earlier (but not open it, since you don't have the key because you haven't killed the king yet) at the place where you fight Mangar...or was it Tarjan? One of them - I think Mangar. And then you have 1-2 at that huge cave-labyrinth-dungeon of Yadis, after the hungering-blade point of the game (luckily, Haernhold is one of the few area's that remains accessible). I won't say what they contain, but it's pretty cool/good stuff, most of the time.
3) Most fights are actual doable, even in normal, and even on hard. Sure, sometimes you lose and have to try some new tactics, or better gear. And if you're really outclassed, one is simply too low leveled still. But in the end, everyone is doable, and no more than 5-6 retries are ever necessary. The only notable exception is the King of Haernhold, and Redcap.
If people find other characters already dounting, they will find it near impossible to defeat those two. Even I couldn't get through it on normal, though granted, my party wasn't optimised for it neither (Outlanders have a definite advantage, here, and compulsary carvoting is a near must-have as well). There might be other ways, but point is: those are extremely diffcult adversaries, so prepare yourself well.
where I found the Dwarven chests:
well of course 2 are in the "red vault" and at least 4 are in the "barrow of the maiden" dungeon. Not sure if there are more. Not a single key yet.
by the way; any chance to save Klara to not be killed in the Yadis fight ?
1) Level 26 is sufficent for the 4 generals and most other enemies in Haernhold, but you'll still have an exceedingly tough time against the King and Redcap. The levitate spell is useless against "giant" opponents. Some of the "special" weapons still do a decent job (but some of them, like the spectre snare don't work well against some ennemies there, though). Unlocked Elvenweapons are ok, but by the time you reach the really high levels, often "master-crafted" weapons outperform them, unless for very specific abilities. Compulsive cavorting is really usefull, especially if you have the skill/ability that the opponent doesn't wake up from it after you hit him. This gives you a 3-turn headstart, which is badly needed for the king and redcap. Dwarves are good against the king, and outlanders are good against redcap.
Now, I'm not saying it's the only way to go, but as I said in my "final thoughts about the game", you either 1)have an optimized (dwarven, outlanders) maxed-out (lvl27-28) party, or 2)you have ideal attackmodes with specific skills (compulsary carvoting, last breath with a very high strength-based character), or 3)you have copious amounts of booze, health potions and the latest dwarves weapons found in Haernhold (by defeating the 4 generals, for instance).
Get two out of these three, and you have a chance. ;-)
2) Ah yes, red vault and barrow of the maiden. That would be the "huge cave of yadis". ;-) Most can be found either in Haernhold or after the hungering blade point, but there are a few that can be found much sooner (though not being able to open them). It's one of the reasons I think they should drop the lvl of the Haernhold dungeon a bit. *
The key(s) can ONLY be found in the chest behind the King. And thus, you have to defeat the King first. By extention, you'd also need to defeat Redcap, since even if you avoid him, he will still be waiting for you when you killed the king. I suggest saving a lot, *before* you engage both the king and/or redcap..
3) Nope. Fate ordains it. Sometimes there is no changing fate. At all. A sad, but true lesson to learn.
*edit: Now that I think about it, I never actually counted them, nor am I sure how many dwarves chests in total there are. Maybe I overlooked some. At a minimum 5-6? Max 8-9? Not sure.
♥♥♥♥♥♥, if they're harder than the old Ancestor fight on legendary, I'm throwing a shoe at somebody.
Wait a second, I tried Cavorting against most of the stuff in Haernhold, and it got resisted/immune status. Maybe a change in the Feb 20 patch? I still carry that damn lute around, just in case...
I'm going in almost 100% Baed for the 3 extra skills points each. Pray for me...
There's a "yer mom" joke in there which would get me banned, I'm sure.
This is the point where I usually become useful to the community - ferreting out and documenting all the hidden secrets, weird skill synergies, easter eggs, hidden conversations, music, etc. I've got a running tab of almost everything in the game right down to the last herb, and will report back on this one later.
I had to give up trying to beat them on normal mode, which is the usual mode I do for everything. That said, my party wasn't really optimised for it neither. I've explained it already in my "final thoughts about the game" post, but basically, I didn't have point 1 nor 3. In fact, I didn't have point 2 neither, at the start. ;-)
?
Worked fine for me. At least, for redcap and the king. I'll tell you one thing though: nearly ALL special skills, like taunt, stun, etc. ONLY work ONCE with the king and redcap. Then they become immune, indeed. But even so, it gives you a valuable three-turn hit-the-mole when starting; a badly needed head-start, thus.
Tell you more: I didn't even have that sissy song during my whole playthrough. :-p Even with my party that had two bards; I primarily used them to buff my tanks and mages, or give extra actionpoints (well, opportunity-points). I didn't need any of those half-assed songs, or so I thought. But it was just something I couldn't ignore anymore when fighting the king or redcap; I'm not SUCH a masochist.
And the problem was already I didn't have 1 nor 3 neither: my party only had one Outlander, and since I passed the hungering blade point, I couldn't change that anymore. And I'd spend all my last booze and potions when fighting the generals, so I was out of "munition" for my bards... and I had two of them - now largely death weight, thus. The only option remaining was to go for, and change, my skills. Luckily you can do that at the statue at the entrance of Haernhold. (And I don't want to spoil it, but if you do that after you killed the king, it becomes near impossible to reach that too). Hence I tried to level up a bit more where I could, set it on easy mode, got the compulsary carvoting skill, and managed to beat them both, after trying 28 times. :-p
If you optimize the party sooner and better (aka, more of the 3 points I raised), you might have it easier than I did. I ven heard some claim they found it easy even on "hard", but I'm slightly inclined to consider that as having a high probability of being a case of boasting. Especially since noone seems to be willing to show me some actual video-footage of such an exploit. :-)
Well... what can I say? Try to get to lvl 28, and try out the two other points I raised as much as you can..
;-)
Ah, you're such one. Let's say a compulsive scholar of knowledgeable RPG-lore. ;-)
Well, that's pretty cool in its own right. I'm fairly interested in those tidbits as well, but I can't always muster the drive to explore and keep track of every nook&cranny myself, I have to admit. I'm interested in seeing what your compendium of BT4 knowledge will look like. Also, feel free to help beef up the walkthroughs and helppages on the internet about BT4: they're often abysmal, or at least, often void of any details.
I kept Wayland's Watch up as much as possible, and used the vorpal weapon skill that removes spell points from opponents, and he was pretty much neutered for the whole fight. I use the acid-type weapons which tear through armor and add the "melting" effect, and I think it took maybe 4 or 5 rounds to burn him to zero. Spectral touch is also really helpful here as a strength-build practitioner can hit him for almost 300 true. If you save up two spectral touches, you can bypass his last armor rebuff (ST -> Duotime -> ST)
Oh - also a Paladin with Chant and the warhorn keeps the Bard's SP topped up nicely. At any rate, I probably hyper over-prepared based on the horror stories, but keeping his mana at zero made the fight much easier, I think.
I want to see a vid of that. -.-
I used spectral touch as well, but I had to do it so many times, my party was usually wiped out before it could get him. Duo-time is indeed, a very good skill/tactic as well; alas, my bards had a chronic deprivation of booze and everything else. I sometimes used Wayland Watch as well, but I couldn't get it going long enough to make enough of a dent.
Didn't use the vorpal weapon, nor the accid/melting weapons though; I primarily used the dwarven weapons. Nor a Paladin with chant/warhorn. Interesting.
Well, I said that other options or ways might be possible! :-)
Still want to see a vid of it, though. -.-
And how did you fare against Redcap?
Also: how did you handle with the King's screams that render half your party stunned?
For those screams, they did not stun me, but did the "terrify" effect that makes everything cost double opportunity. I typically wear Baedish Boots to avoid being stunned. As the king's attacks are on a predictable rotation, I just made sure I got the terrify to land on a round right after I had burned all my good cooldowns. I generally used that opportunity to reposition, mana-up, etc.
Unlike the other 'bosses', the redcaps do not have any immunity to Cavorting or or Weyland's Watch, so a good rotation of those, and then hitting him with the vorpal terrify effect when you know he's going to have one full-strength round really cuts down on the damage he deals out (terrify only works once on him). Again, melting is *so* crazy powerful when coupled with Storm of Blades and an Arming Sword. By the end of the fight, the Redcap was taking 100+ extra melting damage from every melee attack. 3 swings of the sword = like 400 damage for one opportunity point.
Oh, also, the Bard's passive love effect from Grand Troubadour works on all the bosses once, so it gives you a couple of free rounds before you start swinging to mana up, get stances in place, stack up drunk effects, etc.
One thing I've learned about this game over the years is to never underestimate some effect that looks useless or underpowered on paper. Seems like everything has a time and a place, and every fight has about a half-dozen different approaches that will work. Yes, there are some very powerful effects like melting, but there are still multiple paths to the finish line.
Well, that's certainly an interesting take. I've been half-heartedly trying to go through the game for a third time to see if some things I noticed are fixed (or not) after the latest patch, but I stopped 1/3 of the way. Maybe I should push on and try your mode of attack.
Only shows how things can change with another tactic. I completely changed my way of going about it with the king and redcap about 2-3 times, but it still was extremely hard with my party-setup. I think the fact that I had a two-bards setup whom had no booze left (thus no drunk stacking) was part of the reason, granted, but still. I mainly used the dwarven weapons though, since on paper they seem the strongest. It really can go down pretty rapidly, if you can't use two members of your party to the fullest. It's like the “For the want of a nail the shoe was lost,.." thingy you know, leading to losing the war.
Seems that the vorpal and melting are key ingredients to the succes of defeating them, thus.
Well, anyway, congrats! Well done!
Still want to see a vid of it, though. -.-
EDIT: Found the hidden room with 2 ancestors, but still no Killop inside Haernhold. I wonder if he has been removed.
Wait, wait, wait... I think we have other interpretations of the word, here. What do you mean with "hidden room"? The two ancestors/stomping giant/etc. are not really hidden rooms in the strict sense, since you can readily find them just by searching and playing around, without having to do anything special, as far as I remember. Just finding a key or solving a puzzle will suffice.
For killop you actually need to use a song (see the hint I gave about the walls of Jericho). It's *really* hidden, thus. You can't access it without it.
...
;-p
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1991801236
I didn't disbelieve that he was there, I was hoping someone had a location - like an open map or something. I'm going to check for him again after the Hungering Blade quest.
There is a secret room (behind a Gaufain's Hammer wall) with 2 ancestors that you fight at the same time. The secret area is a single, small hallway and a room with chest, and is located directly beneath the main entrance where the glowing green octogon floor tile is.
And yes, I one-shot that double-ancestor fight too :p
EDIT: Just found him, he's there. @svdp I believe that makes 4 or 5 total secret rooms in the zone.
Haha, yesyes.. it was a hint, a hint!
A reverse hint. For you.
The -.- hint. :-p
I gave an actual indication for that as well. Though it must been in response to you in another thread, since I don't see it in this thread.
Been so long I'm starting to doubt, now. "Ancestors". I remember two tree-like giants, and I remember 2 ugly one-eyed cyclopsthingies... that's about all in Haernhold in pairs, I think?
Need to see that too on vid. -.-
Just joking, I could one-shot most of the enemies there as well. Exceptions (apart from the king and redcap, obviously) were... 2 of the generals, where I had to restart a few times, and the pair of tree-giants as well, but that was because I was only lvl 22 or such back at the time (I actually snuck in, in Haernhold, way over my head (underleveled) with the sneakmode of my rogue, just to explore it. But had to be really careful not to bump in to something nasty (and most was nasty at that level). I went in there in different time-spans with different levels.
Ah, good. He's quite talkative, once you say the magic word(s), no?