Puzzles

[pauljwright1]

I enjoyed the initial release of this game until i encountered the annoying puzzles.I notice that you should be able to bypass them in this newer version by playing a bards tune.If that is the case i will but it again.can the developers confirm that this is the case.
I loved the game but loathed the puzzle aspect

[Sp@wned]

yes you can pass puzzle when you launch your primary song

[pauljwright1]

Great news thank you i will purchase this

[Targonis]

Originally posted by pauljwright1:

Great news thank you i will purchase this

Why would you need to buy it again? If you purchased the original BT4, you get the DC for free.

[pauljwright1]

I refunded the game with steam as i didnt want a puzzle rpg

[drusca]

Too bad most of them are nice. I am happy about the new song but the dlc puzzles I will solve myself

[Sp@wned]

same as well ! :)

[Peter B]

Originally posted by pauljwright1:

I refunded the game with steam as i didnt want a puzzle rpg

I did the same. ♥♥♥♥ that crap.

[Jolly]

I really like the combat system in this game, and the game itself is overall solid, and I like puzzles, there were/are just too many puzzles in spots, especially the "faerie golf" puzzles that go on, and on, then on some more for good measure, and you do a set of puzzles, do maybe one or two fights, then it's back to more faeries. That's when I quit playing the game and uninstalled. It was unbearable.

I'm tempted to play the DC now, but just skipping puzzles is not what I was hoping for, I was hoping they'd get sane and reduce the volume of repetitive puzzles to something less annoying. This game could have half or a quarter of the puzzles and be a way better game.

Solving a puzzle once is good - you figured something out. Doing the same puzzles over and over is just tedious.

It's like, our people are supposed to be heroes yet every where they go there are these screwy puzzle barriers or sets of doors with keys that are screwy to get thru - how do the dumb as post monsters, bandits, thugs, and other scum manage to exist or survive in these ungodly hassles.

It also feels contrived when every where you go you're blocked by puzzles or conveniently hokie locking mechanisms and gates. It's silly. The puzzles and stuff like that should feel natural and there for a reason other than to just be some random obstacle put there just for your party.

I don't know what it is about this genre. So many games come close to being good, but they either have real time combat (not interested at all) or they have a horrid UI, or they are weak overall, or they have just some wonky thing about them that makes the game suck. It's incredibly rare that one encounters a totally solid grid based, turn based crawler - ever.

BT4 is such a game. It's good in so many ways, but then the puzzle overload and the unnatural contrived nature of puzzles everywhere makes it absurd. Apparently some like it. Fargo has said the sales were lower than expected and I can't help but feel like the pacing with puzzles had to be a part of that.

[svdp]

Originally posted by Jolly:

I really like the combat system in this game, and the game itself is overall solid, and I like puzzles, there were/are just too many puzzles in spots, especially the "faerie golf" puzzles that go on, and on, then on some more for good measure, and you do a set of puzzles, do maybe one or two fights, then it's back to more faeries. That's when I quit playing the game and uninstalled. It was unbearable.

I'm tempted to play the DC now, but just skipping puzzles is not what I was hoping for, I was hoping they'd get sane and reduce the volume of repetitive puzzles to something less annoying. This game could have half or a quarter of the puzzles and be a way better game.

Solving a puzzle once is good - you figured something out. Doing the same puzzles over and over is just tedious.

It's like, our people are supposed to be heroes yet every where they go there are these screwy puzzle barriers or sets of doors with keys that are screwy to get thru - how do the dumb as post monsters, bandits, thugs, and other scum manage to exist or survive in these ungodly hassles.

It also feels contrived when every where you go you're blocked by puzzles or conveniently hokie locking mechanisms and gates. It's silly. The puzzles and stuff like that should feel natural and there for a reason other than to just be some random obstacle put there just for your party.

I don't know what it is about this genre. So many games come close to being good, but they either have real time combat (not interested at all) or they have a horrid UI, or they are weak overall, or they have just some wonky thing about them that makes the game suck. It's incredibly rare that one encounters a totally solid grid based, turn based crawler - ever.

BT4 is such a game. It's good in so many ways, but then the puzzle overload and the unnatural contrived nature of puzzles everywhere makes it absurd. Apparently some like it. Fargo has said the sales were lower than expected and I can't help but feel like the pacing with puzzles had to be a part of that.

While I would agree with you on the sentiment that it's difficult to find a really excellent party-based RPG, the devil is in the detail. Namely: we all have different ideas about what an RPG should be and have and not have, let alone which elements are 'good' or 'excellent' (or bad).

So, for instance, the puzzles. It was clearly indicated in front that this particular RPG would be heavy on the puzzles... So I don't find it reasonable if people complain about puzzles for a game which said it contains puzzles. That makes as much sense than complaining an FPS game of WW2 has guns in it...

Yes, on an individual level one can discuss if there are too few or too many puzzles, but that's inherently subjective, so one can't really come to any closure on such a subjects, if individuals feel differently about this.

With your example of it feeling contrived and unnatural... Yes, on itself, you have a point, however, the premise itself one starts with, may differ on that matter. In this respect, one shouldn't take the BT4 too seriously from the get go. It's clearly not intended to be a faithful representation of the world, nor a realistic depiction of a natural environment. Clearly it needs quite a high level of suspension of disbelieve for it to be pallatable, in *all* aspects of it, not just the puzzles. If one don't look at it humoristically and as a tongue-in-cheek, and as a fairy-tale-ish story that is being told (almost literally so), then there is no end to pointing out things which don't make sense.

One could, for instance, say exactly the same of the combat: how contrived and unnatural! How absurd they fight the way they do, standing as pieces on a chessboard. What an overload of combat (if one doesn't like the combat)! How could anyone survive the stupidity of mooning you when confronted by heavy weaponry and ennemies who are attacking you? We're adventurers, not mercenaries, why do we need to fight so much?

The same for the songs, the exploration, the crafting, etc.: there are a myriad of things one can point to and say it's not natural and contrived - that's why one needs suspension of disbelieve in games like this. Otherwise, one is better off with real-life simulation games.

It just so happens you pick one element out of it, glancing over the rest, because you don't like it. But the argument itself that you use to substantate it, is, in fact, valid for all and every aspect in some manner and to some degree in almost all games ever made.

Bottomline, there is no definite border/line to be drawn with that argument, because it's valid for every aspect and element, yet you pick out this one. The real reason is, however.. that you don't like puzzles, or at least, not much. If you loved the puzzles, but hated the combat, you would be making the very same argument about the combat instead of the puzzles.