What am I doing wrong?

[More Stoned Than Willie]

60 games into a season, won like 10 games. I can't get anyone out with my pen, and I'm not exaggerating, I give up 4-5 runs an inning when I use my pen and I don't understand it. This is nothing like what real baseball actually looks like. I have to be doing something wrong...

[biggalloot]

is your bullpen worn out? if so, try one or more of three things:
1. call up a couple of 100% rested arms from the minors. they may throw enough innings in the next few games to allow the tired bullpen arms to recover.
2. i do think that the game settings tend to pull pitchers too often, resulting in the arms being over-worked. if you are in commissioner mode i suggest that you Game> Game Setting > League Settings> Stats&AI change the Hook for SP to -3 and the Hook for RP to -2. I found that 1950s and 1960s replays work better with SP Hook of -1 and RP Hook of +1.
3. Some relief pitchers seem to have been given not enough stamina. Look at your relief pitchers under edit of player if in commissioner mode. I typically change every pitcher to at least have 36 typed there for stamina (shows stamina of 25 or 30 on player ratings) in modern games. Historical games I edit every pitcher to have at least 50 typed for player edit purposes (shows stamina of at least 35 on player ratings).
Try calling up some fresh arms first. If you are not in commissioner mode to do the other things you typically have to wait until after the World Series to get into commissioner mode.

[More Stoned Than Willie]

Originally posted by biggalloot:

is your bullpen worn out? if so, try one or more of three things:
1. call up a couple of 100% rested arms from the minors. they may throw enough innings in the next few games to allow the tired bullpen arms to recover.
2. i do think that the game settings tend to pull pitchers too often, resulting in the arms being over-worked. if you are in commissioner mode i suggest that you Game> Game Setting > League Settings> Stats&AI change the Hook for SP to -3 and the Hook for RP to -2. I found that 1950s and 1960s replays work better with SP Hook of -1 and RP Hook of +1.
3. Some relief pitchers seem to have been given not enough stamina. Look at your relief pitchers under edit of player if in commissioner mode. I typically change every pitcher to at least have 36 typed there for stamina (shows stamina of 25 or 30 on player ratings) in modern games. Historical games I edit every pitcher to have at least 50 typed for player edit purposes (shows stamina of at least 35 on player ratings).
Try calling up some fresh arms first. If you are not in commissioner mode to do the other things you typically have to wait until after the World Series to get into commissioner mode.

Thanks for the help. Yeah, I'm keeping things as fresh as I can. I've been bouncing back and forth between winning a few games by absolutely stretching out my starters, then getting crushed the next couple times around when I have to rely on my pen. Also, I have been playing out each game rather than simulating them, which I'm starting to think may be my problem.

[biggalloot]

to Ghost:
i think a lot of it has to do with quick default hook settings for starters and relievers. playing as human manager helps to avoid some AI quick hooks but i also think that some guys are rated with too low of stamina. for example, i found a few historical relief pitchers for some years who looked like they would wear out with less than ten pitches and that just seems wrong. i have to think that just about every relief pitcher can throw at least twenty and perhaps as many as thirty six or so pitches.
i think SP Hook of -5 is about right for the 60 game shortened season as some pitchers did not get properly stretched out.
i think SP Hook of -3 or -4 is about right for 2020 162 game seasons. i prefer -3.
games prior to the arrival of closers should have SP hook of -2 or -1. i think -2 is a little bit better unless you think that your starter throwing 130-140 pitches a game (with -1) is wise (which may have been the case sixty or seventy years ago).

it sounds like you are doing the best you can minus the ability with Commissioner Mode to slow down the AI hooks and even to edit the individual pitchers for pitch count. do try to get your bullpen with some 100% rested guys as fellows who are tired or exhausted typically can only go a few pitches in an emergency. if that means stretching out your starters playing manually, allowing some bullpen guys to be battered in some lost cause mop-up role while conserving the others, or by calling up some fresh arms from the minors, good luck.

one more thing:
if you do want to go back to AI simulation for your team i would suggest having a manager with a Slow hook for both starting pitchers and relief pitchers. look at your current manager and click edit to see his tendency to pull pitchers. you might have a guy who just burns out arms by default. you can do two things--
1. in commissioner mode, edit the SP and RP hook of your AI manager to at least one click beyond average towards the slow part of the scale.
2. look at guys available for manager jobs and check out their hook tendencies. you might consider firing your "Captain Hook" and replacing him with somebody who lets the pitchers go longer.

[More Stoned Than Willie]

Its not about rest at all, it doesn't matter if they are 100% rested or not. Also, I've never simmed a game, I play them all out myself, so its not the AI pulling them , I control this... they just can't pitch, and its to the point that something has to be wrong. It makes no sense that my starter can go 6 innings and give up 1 run, then I give up a total of 15 over the next 3 innings. EVERY game is like that to the point this in unplayable.

[biggalloot]

to Cain:
i know teams go into slumps. when i take sim play of a team i can usually count on several long losing streaks. but back to relief pitching:
it does make a difference in stamina if your arms are not fully rested as far as pitch count stamina is concerned. if i take my ace closer and run him down to exhaustion and then have him come into the next game at that tired state it appears the game will typically only have him effective facing a batter or two while that same guy can usually do OK against five or six batters if fully rested.
i suggest that you use your most rested bullpen arms and sit the tired ones until they heal. losing streaks are tough as my team just lost 13 in a row (i like to manage bottom dwellers for the challenge).
don't give up. keep trying a variety of things. more bullpen arms from the minors? fire the pitching coach and bring in a fresh face?
good luck.

[More Stoned Than Willie]

I don't know how else to say this. Its not about rest... the relief pitchers I bring in to begin with are 90%+ rested, can't get an out. I see no difference between a 100% rested arm, and one that is 40%, both come into the game and give up 5+ hits and multiple walks before accidentally stumbling into a couple outs. All my linescores are like 001000878, it makes no sense. I bring up new pitchers from the minors, they get shelled exactly the same, I sign FA pitchers, ROCKED. Draftees I bring straight up to the major leagues? Witness protection... My best damn relief pitcher is Jason Kipnis, and he's thrown something like 37 innings this season just giving my pen rest in hopeless late innings.

[biggalloot]

to Prisoner:
having played OOTP thousands of hours through various yearly editions of the game i can understand your frustration. sometimes i feel there is some "evil genius" buried somewhere in the game code set there for the purpose of breaking your heart.
besides expecting several long losing streaks every season along with times when the bullpen seems to be ineffective as a crew, the "evil genius" more often than not during those rare years when my team is playing well comes up with things like half the pitching staff getting injured at the same time or the best player on the team being out of action for the playoffs.
i guess what i am trying to say is that the game is difficult. it will break your heart most seasons, but isn't that true of favorite teams in real life most years?

keep trying things. maybe try this next:
find your most rested bullpen arm and use him as opener for the next game. try to get two innings out of him if possible but yank him once the green/red slider scale of pitcher endurance starts to get into the orange territory. then bring in your expected starting pitcher.
as in real life, manager for OOTP21 often needs to change strategy to stymie the "evil genius" even if most moves will fail.
also:
how is your team chemistry? if the team chemistry is worse than unhappy it seems that the players will play even worse than normal. steps to improve team chemistry might include a new manager, adding some leaders to the team, and dropping lazy and selfish players.
and about ineffective bullpen arms:
it is typical for my bullpen fellows to go through rough stretches of getting hit hard or unable to find the plate game after game but for some unknown reason most of them will get back into expected form later in the season. it is frustrating but usually true.

[More Stoned Than Willie]

Originally posted by biggalloot:

to Prisoner:
having played OOTP thousands of hours through various yearly editions of the game i can understand your frustration. sometimes i feel there is some "evil genius" buried somewhere in the game code set there for the purpose of breaking your heart.
besides expecting several long losing streaks every season along with times when the bullpen seems to be ineffective as a crew, the "evil genius" more often than not during those rare years when my team is playing well comes up with things like half the pitching staff getting injured at the same time or the best player on the team being out of action for the playoffs.
i guess what i am trying to say is that the game is difficult. it will break your heart most seasons, but isn't that true of favorite teams in real life most years?

keep trying things. maybe try this next:
find your most rested bullpen arm and use him as opener for the next game. try to get two innings out of him if possible but yank him once the green/red slider scale of pitcher endurance starts to get into the orange territory. then bring in your expected starting pitcher.
as in real life, manager for OOTP21 often needs to change strategy to stymie the "evil genius" even if most moves will fail.
also:
how is your team chemistry? if the team chemistry is worse than unhappy it seems that the players will play even worse than normal. steps to improve team chemistry might include a new manager, adding some leaders to the team, and dropping lazy and selfish players.
and about ineffective bullpen arms:
it is typical for my bullpen fellows to go through rough stretches of getting hit hard or unable to find the plate game after game but for some unknown reason most of them will get back into expected form later in the season. it is frustrating but usually true.

Thanks for the attempt at help. I just went ahead an uninstalled the game. Banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what minor setting is causing my bullpen to have an ERA over 17 doesn't sound all that fun to me to be honest. I was expecting something more straightforward when I purchased this game- managing baseball, not CPU settings- so I'm just going to cut my losses. I appreciate the help though.

[dakin1]

Originally posted by biggalloot:

keep trying things. maybe try this next:
find your most rested bullpen arm and use him as opener for the next game. try to get two innings out of him if possible but yank him once the green/red slider scale of pitcher endurance starts to get into the orange territory. then bring in your expected starting pitcher.
as in real life, manager for OOTP21 often needs to change strategy to stymie the "evil genius" even if most moves will fail.

I think Lou Piniella actually did this IRL when he was managing as a way to try and break a losing streak. The only other potential options are to fire the pitching coach if he has poor ratings and also check the catcher ratings, since they have some effect on pitcher performance as well.

Sometimes I put a reliever out there and for whatever reason he gets rocked, so now what I do is always have another reliever up in the bullpen warming up when making a pitching change. If the current reliever gives up more than 2 hits/walks in a row (may need to be 3 if you are playing with the 2020 3 batter rule), I yank him and often the next reliever can get out of the jam.

[aaronlohr]

My last three seasons have been like this. Every reliever in the bullpen gets shelled. So eventually I bring up others or sign free agents but during these three seasons no matter who comes in they get rocked. And they're good relievers too. It's a historical game with real players. I had Mariano Rivera, Gregg Olson, Broxton, Lidge, didn't matter. Guys who had 2 ERAs would come to my team and have 8 ERAs.

BABIP was also crazy. Some were over .400. All were over .320. And the defense up the middle has no one under 50 rating in arm/range. Very odd three seasons...

[ev^]

I prefer to go with pitchers with strong stuff (and at least 2-3 pitches in the green, if not blue) and decent control. If you have a lot of groundball pitchers, then make sure you have a good defensive infield. I had a fictional team with ERAs around 3 three years in a row despite a lack of a bonafide ace (the league ERA has been around 4.10-4.20). My pitchers were in the 3-4 star range and my team was at/near the top in Zone Rating/Defensive Efficiency.

[biggalloot]

One more thing if you are playing each game live as manager:

Do take a trip to visit the pitching mound when your pitcher seems to get on the ropes. I don't know why, but this seems to often result in an out during a critical time.

[inosk0pedjfk]

Try to adjust the offense/defense calculations in league settings