How to stage surprise attacks

[SigilFey]

I'm posting this because it took me forever to come across the actual answer. I've found everything from, "You just can't do it," to complete misinformation. But, yes -- it is totally possible!

Here are the correct steps (but they are wildly un-intuitive and extremely confusing.)

1.) You need to unchain your party while standing together. Be sure you do this first!

2.) Enter turn-based mode. Shift-Space, by default. (Be sure your party is unchained BEFORE you do so!)

3.) Be sure you remain in TB the entire time.

4.) Do NOT chain your party again until the combat is done.

5.) Now, position each character individually. You will then be able to decide which character makes the first attack. We'll call this the "opening character". Once this attack happens, the enemies within range will be "Surprised!" (See * below for a note on an issue with this part.)

6.) DO NOT END THAT CHARACTER'S TURN.

7.) This is the really confusing bit. One by one, attack with the other 3 characters. DO NOT END ANYONE'S TURN. You need to be sure that either a.) they're attacking enemies that are all in the same range as the initial character, or b.) they attack enemies that are out of range of the combat but still not alerted to your presence. (You need to refer to the turn order that may only appear for the opening character. Cross reference that with other enemies you can see in the world to see if they're not actually included in the combat yet.) If other non-engaged enemies are alerted, they'll go active and get their attack rounds that same turn. They won't be "Surprised!" You'll need to attack them separately, which effectively initiates a totally separate combat encounter...but very often the two encounters will be "merged" the moment the second opening attack is made. If a character seems to be unable to act, even though they haven't moved yet, find the green button that appears above the "End Turn" button. This will jump you to the character that must move next. Yes, the way this works is insanely convoluted. (See ** below for more explanation.)

8.) If you've done this correctly, all of the enemies will now be "Surprised!", and you will be able to attack that turn, then the following turn before they can react.

9.) The one, absolutely critical thing to remember is: DO NOT END ANY CHARACTER'S TURN until ALL 4 CHARACTERS APPEAR IN THE TURN ORDER at the top of the screen.

10.) Following this, the combat should play out as normal. There does seem to be a bug, however, that occurs if you chain your party during the combat. It will suddenly rearrange the turn order, and you may wind up giving enemies attacks before your characters can act. And/or, it may simply refuse to allow certain characters into the unified combat -- even though they appeared in the turn order correctly before you chained the group.


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* Note 1:
There is a "bug" with opening attacks, though it may simply be jank with the system, as it happens fairly often. When you finally have your first character make the surprise attack, your other characters may automatically return to real-time, but the TB combat is still going. This will NOT affect the combat -- it will still work. Simply put each of the other characters back into TB, one by one, and execute your plan. This can backfire occasionally, which is covered more below. Always a good idea to save the game before attempting a surprise attack.


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** Note 2:
Combat in the game can be asynchronous, even in SP. It seems to be something they worked in to make multiplayer more robust, but it can make absolutely no sense at all in single player. I'm not sure why there is no "universal turn-based option", but we have to use the tools we have.

Here's what can happen if the "bug" identified in * above occurs. If your party members are spread out too much, then only the initial character(s) in the group that makes the initial surprise attack will be drawn into combat. The TB combat will affect only a radius around the opening character. This may or may not include the other player characters, even if they are standing right next to them. Furthermore, the rest of the world, like enemies that are standing further away, WILL NOT BE IN COMBAT and WILL NOT BE SURPRISED. They can now wander around freely, and they may begin another, totally separate combat in a totally different combat radius than the first character. That happens when they wander into one of your other characters while you're still dealing with the TB combat.

The key to avoiding this is not to separate your party too much. If you do, try to ensure all the characters are 100% outside the vision range of the enemies. If that's the case, when the "bug" happens, you can immediately cycle through your characters and individually put them back into TB mode. I've never seen this "bug" happen more than once in any given combat. It shouldn't affect you once everyone is engaged, and if handled correctly, it should not prevent you from surprising all the enemies you mean to.


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Using this approach, it is totally possible to spring massive surprise attacks and get a lot of damage in before larger groups of enemies have any chance to react. Given the fairly steep difficulty, the inclusion of the "Surprise!" mechanic, and near impossibility of actually utilizing it if your party is chained together...it seems this was what was intended. o.O

I hope this helps players that may still be struggling with the mechanics. I know I searched since launch day without being able to find any reliable steps. Surprise attacks make a tremendous difference, especially in Act 1.

Yes, we can strike from the shadows like actual tacticians!

[MeyerX]

An awful wall of text for "let Astarion attack first while speaking"
;-)

Seriously, my party does surprise attacks all the time without me paying much attention to the process

[TheBlueFox]

Here's an easier way...

1. Unchain the party.
2. Attack with the character who has the highest stealth score
3. you now have surprise unless someone beat his score with a perception roll.

you can now spend all day, slowly moving the rest of the group into position while all the enemies are stuck in Turn Based combat and are unable to move. You can even have them return to town, get a drink at the pub, talk to an old lady on the street, go to camp and get equipment, or whatever.

As long as they're in stealth and don't enter a red sight cone, they can do whatever they want. They can even enter combat with an attack

[SigilFey]

Yes, if you're intending to just bull-rush into combat on the opening turn, that sort of thing may work.

For those players that are trying to specifically position to take out key targets (like spellcasters or archers on that surprise turn), it's not that simple.

1.) There are plenty of bugs with how things execute. I've had characters completely excluded from combat, all actions greyed out, and no option to get them into combat at all.
(That's occurred several times with my party chained.)

2.) It doesn't allow for precise tactics. If it were simply "switch the whole world into TB mode", there would be no problem at all. But that's not the way it works, unfortunately.

3.) If not done as described, many enemies may aggro on the subsequent turn, rather than being surprised with the rest. It all depends on how far away they are from that opening attack.

This is a guide for people that want to use detailed tactics. I was honestly expecting it to work much more thoroughly out of the box. If your general approach can best be summed up as "Get'em!" have at it! (Little Icewind Dale 2 humor, there.)

[BlackMage]

There are so many unexpected quality of life features I miss from Solasta while playing this. Having to jump through these hoops just to initiate a surprise attack is ridiculous. The fact that there are modifiers and status for it implies it was intended by the devs, but it is basically breaking the game's flow and suspension of disbelief to go through these steps.

I appreciate you outlining your experience with this in detail regardless. Thank you.

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by SigilFey:

Yes, if you're intending to just bull-rush into combat on the opening turn, that sort of thing may work.

For those players that are trying to specifically position to take out key targets (like spellcasters or archers on that surprise turn), it's not that simple.

1.) There are plenty of bugs with how things execute. I've had characters completely excluded from combat, all actions greyed out, and no option to get them into combat at all.
(That's occurred several times with my party chained.)

2.) It doesn't allow for precise tactics. If it were simply "switch the whole world into TB mode", there would be no problem at all. But that's not the way it works, unfortunately.

3.) If not done as described, many enemies may aggro on the subsequent turn, rather than being surprised with the rest. It all depends on how far away they are from that opening attack.

This is a guide for people that want to use detailed tactics. I was honestly expecting it to work much more thoroughly out of the box. If your general approach can best be summed up as "Get'em!" have at it! (Little Icewind Dale 2 humor, there.)

How is it not that simple?

Once your rogue has entered combat, enemies are COMPLETELY LOCKED in position. They cannot move, they cannot adjust sight cones, they cannot act.

You have all day to completely micromanage the 3 allies who have not yet entered combat. Change weapons, adjust spells, SET UP BOMBS.

And you know the ludicrous thing? If you try to enter combat with an attack, and kill your target... you don't even get put in combat unless someone saw it. So you can go back into stealth and enter combat with a DIFFERENT attack... Oops, killed that target too, silly me.

I've been playing the game from the start as an assassin rogue, I'm very... very adept at getting surprise rounds. Once you have practice it's so easy, and enemies drop like flies.

[SigilFey]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

How is it not that simple?

Once your rogue has entered combat, enemies are COMPLETELY LOCKED in position. They cannot move, they cannot adjust sight cones, they cannot act.

You have all day to completely micromanage the 3 allies who have not yet entered combat. Change weapons, adjust spells, SET UP BOMBS.

And you know the ludicrous thing? If you try to enter combat with an attack, and kill your target... you don't even get put in combat unless someone saw it. So you can go back into stealth and enter combat with a DIFFERENT attack... Oops, killed that target too, silly me.

I've been playing the game from the start as an assassin rogue, I'm very... very adept at getting surprise rounds. Once you have practice it's so easy, and enemies drop like flies.

Sorry, man, that's not how it works across the board. I've specifically outlined the bugs and issues that can occur. If you have never seen those issues on your end, that's great for you. For the rest of us that do see those issues, we'll need a system that works reliably for us.

You also don't seem to be accounting for enemies that are not in that combat range that you still want to deal with at the same time. For example, two high ground areas, across from one another, both of which contain archers and spellcasters, and both groups are going to get involved in combat if you charge into range of the first group.

Like sneaking around the side path at the goblin temple in Act 1. Both sets of archers on the gates are going to aggro when you attack the other. You can't get to both sides, simultaneously, but you can split your group up and attack both groups individually, at the same time. To pull that off, you'll need to follow the steps that I've outlined. If you try to do it your way, the second group will aggro when you get within melee range of the first group, and they will not be surprised. Using the system I've outlined, you get the surprise round on both groups at the same time.

You're only adept at getting basic, initial surprise rounds from only one direction against only one, small group, using your particular build and approach. That's not the only approach. Other tactical games from the 1990s and earlier 2000s did account for these wider tactics, and their mechanics allowed for it, plainly and obviously. Players familiar with those games will be able to recognize the advantage of those tactics in BG3, but this game doesn't make the methodology clear at all.

If you don't care about it, then what I'm describing isn't for you. Have fun with it the way you choose!