Magic Initiate: Warlock

[lordgizka]

How good of an idea is this on a sorcerer? Eldritch Blast would still gain rays and can be metamagic'd, but obviously no Agonizing Blast for more damage.

[BigAlzBub]

It is okay. Without all the invocations it is roughly the same as firebolt, but has the advantage of being of a damage type which is rarely (if ever) resisted, and is also good for smashing things like walls and/or doors (which are often vulverable to force damage). The being able to hit multiple targets is a mixed bag, it is better in that if you have a few enemies all on low hit points you can ray each down, and because the bolts are separate rolls, you have more chances to critically hit...however when you do critically it hit, it is just one bolt it won't be as much damage as other cantrips where the damage is block. The same applies when rolling to hit, if the enemy has a high armour class, there is a better chance that one of the bolts will hit, but you are much less likely to get all the bolts to hit.

Quicken metamagic is okay, but personally I would rather use it on a leveled spell rather than a cantrip. You might be able to use Twin spell on Eldritch Blast when below 5th level, but after that it can targets multiple enemies so it ought to be ineligible, also you are probably better using it on Hold Person/Monster or haste or some such rather than doing a handful of extra damage.

[lordgizka]

Oh, right, firebolt also gains more rays. Nvm then.

[BigAlzBub]

Originally posted by lordgizka:

Oh, right, firebolt also gains more rays. Nvm then.

Firebolt doesn't get more rays, but it does deal more damage.

[lordgizka]

Originally posted by BigAlzBub:

Originally posted by lordgizka:

Oh, right, firebolt also gains more rays. Nvm then.

Firebolt doesn't get more rays, but it does deal more damage.

Oh yeah, thanks. It does make wasting a feat on this seem silly.

[BigAlzBub]

It is not necessarily a waste, as you can pick up a first level warlock spell like Hex or Armor of Agathys (although you can also get this by having a draconic (white) bloodline). The Force damage is pretty cool over fire damage, as fire is second most resisted elemental damage type (poison being the worst). Perosnally I like cold or Electrical damage, because when enemies are wet they take double damage from these sources, and with cold, it also freezes the water puddle which can cause enemies to fall on their ass.

[BigAlzBub]

A particularly dirty trick I am fond of, is to have Lae'zel summon her Mage hand before a battle, then you can drop water bottles on the floor as a free action and have the hand use it's action to lob them at the enemies. You can also do the same with potions, so it makes for great action economy.

[Lex]

My opinion on the Magic Initiate feats is that they're a trap. They seem great initially by providing more diversity, but casters naturally get a lot of cantrips. The 1st level spell is once a day. The spells you get scale with the class stat it's from. You could use the ASI/Feat for anything else like warcaster or just increasing your primary stat. I would even just recommend putting a few levels into Warlock so you can get things that increase EB's damage and empower you and even give you more sorcery points.

[BigAlzBub]

Originally posted by Lex:

My opinion on the Magic Initiate feats is that they're a trap. They seem great initially by providing more diversity, but casters naturally get a lot of cantrips. The 1st level spell is once a day. The spells you get scale with the class stat it's from. You could use the ASI/Feat for anything else like warcaster or just increasing your primary stat. I would even just recommend putting a few levels into Warlock so you can get things that increase EB's damage and empower you and even give you more sorcery points.

There are certainly better things you can do with your Stats/Feats, pushing your primary attribute to max is definitely one of the stronger things you can do. That said not everything has to be maximised to within an inch of its life, sometimes it can be fun to play a suboptimal build which does the things you want rather than being a slave to spreadsheets.
I do tend to agree that would be better off with a couple of levels of lock if you want powerful eldritch blasts, although obviously doing so causes you to lose some sorcery points and the top level of spells; without seeing the full spell lists it tough to know if that is worthwhile.

[Lex]

Originally posted by BigAlzBub:

Originally posted by Lex:

My opinion on the Magic Initiate feats is that they're a trap. They seem great initially by providing more diversity, but casters naturally get a lot of cantrips. The 1st level spell is once a day. The spells you get scale with the class stat it's from. You could use the ASI/Feat for anything else like warcaster or just increasing your primary stat. I would even just recommend putting a few levels into Warlock so you can get things that increase EB's damage and empower you and even give you more sorcery points.

There are certainly better things you can do with your Stats/Feats, pushing your primary attribute to max is definitely one of the stronger things you can do. That said not everything has to be maximised to within an inch of its life, sometimes it can be fun to play a suboptimal build which does the things you want rather than being a slave to spreadsheets.
I do tend to agree that would be better off with a couple of levels of lock if you want powerful eldritch blasts, although obviously doing so causes you to lose some sorcery points and the top level of spells; without seeing the full spell lists it tough to know if that is worthwhile.

Dude... when someone starts talking about a Sorcerer with EB they're already out the gate for min-maxing lol. A super optimal min-max build though? Maybe not, but it's enough.

There are, however, BAD builds and they should not be encouraged because it's going to make the game NOT fun because game mechanics exist.

[BigAlzBub]

Agree to disagree. EB is definitely not the strongest option you take, but it won't make your build bad, it just won't be as powerful as it could be, that said there are some legitimate situational circumstances where EB is a far superior choice over the other damaging cantrips.
I agree taking two level of Warlock to get EB and the invocations is a far, far stronger, but you do then miss out on sorcerer 6th level spells like Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Globe of Invulnerability, Sunbeam or True Seeing,

[lordgizka]

Think I'll play a proper Sorlock (2 or 3 warlock levels) for my second playthrough. Should be OP enough for Tactitian.