Are casters meant to be horrendous

[Dusty!]

Melees casually double their damage with more health and utility. It's not even a level thing, you get level 5 and half your spells miss or deal 4 damage.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

My casters (incl. Druid tav) have demolished every encounter so far. I only had difficulty (sub 60%) with the attack rolls (for spells) on the spider matriarch so far, but still the majority of damage I did to her was with spells. Use right click to check the vulnerable save for each enemy, bane/bless makes a huge difference in every fight, as can fox's cunning/owls wisdom/eagles splendor.

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

My casters (incl. Druid tav) have demolished every encounter so far. I only had difficulty (sub 60%) with the attack rolls (for spells) on the spider matriarch so far, but still the majority of damage I did to her was with spells. Use right click to check the vulnerable save for each enemy, bane/bless makes a huge difference in every fight, as can fox's cunning/owls wisdom/eagles splendor.

Well, the problem isn't landing attack rolls, ACs have been reduced in BG3. Not to mention, there's a host of ways to increase attack bonus in BG3. The problem is spells that require the target to fail a saving throw, as the majority of these spells have been weakened both directly and indirectly by Larian's design.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

IgnatiusJ.Reilly님이 먼저 게시:

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

My casters (incl. Druid tav) have demolished every encounter so far. I only had difficulty (sub 60%) with the attack rolls (for spells) on the spider matriarch so far, but still the majority of damage I did to her was with spells. Use right click to check the vulnerable save for each enemy, bane/bless makes a huge difference in every fight, as can fox's cunning/owls wisdom/eagles splendor.

Well, the problem isn't landing attack rolls, ACs have been reduced in BG3. Not to mention, there's a host of ways to increase attack bonus in BG3. The problem is spells that require the target to fail a saving throw, as the majority of these spells have been weakened both directly and indirectly by Larian's design.

Isn't that offset by the fact that you can examine and determine which saving throws enemies are worst at? You can buff INT/WIS/CHA, hex the saving stat, and target the lowest save. I've gotten as far as clearing the blighted village, the matriarch, the shadow druid fight, the gnolls, the paladins, just turned level 4 and haven't had any issues utilizing all of the spellcasters. Sleep and hideous laughter helped me steamroll a lot of encounters. I'd also assume that because the classes/subclasses aren't fully featured in EA nor is the available map fully utilized that there will be more ways to make it work. Stat potions, ability buff scrolls, etc.

[Hobocop]

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

Isn't that offset by the fact that you can examine and determine which saving throws enemies are worst at? You can buff INT/WIS/CHA, hex the saving stat, and target the lowest save. I've gotten as far as clearing the blighted village, the matriarch, the shadow druid fight, the gnolls, the paladins, just turned level 4 and haven't had any issues utilizing all of the spellcasters. Sleep and hideous laughter helped me steamroll a lot of encounters. I'd also assume that because the classes/subclasses aren't fully featured in EA nor is the available map fully utilized that there will be more ways to make it work. Stat potions, ability buff scrolls, etc.

Hex doesn't affect saving throws, only ability checks.

The rest of your points still apply though, and tbh, Sleep affecting a set amount of HP in BG3 makes it way more reliable than PnP RAW.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

I'm only familiar with 3.5, but shouldn't there be plenty of ways to penalize saving throws once out of EA?

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

IgnatiusJ.Reilly님이 먼저 게시:

Well, the problem isn't landing attack rolls, ACs have been reduced in BG3. Not to mention, there's a host of ways to increase attack bonus in BG3. The problem is spells that require the target to fail a saving throw, as the majority of these spells have been weakened both directly and indirectly by Larian's design.

Isn't that offset by the fact that you can examine and determine which saving throws enemies are worst at? You can buff INT/WIS/CHA, hex the saving stat, and target the lowest save. I've gotten as far as clearing the blighted village, the matriarch, the shadow druid fight, the gnolls, the paladins, just turned level 4 and haven't had any issues utilizing all of the spellcasters. Sleep and hideous laughter helped me steamroll a lot of encounters. I'd also assume that because the classes/subclasses aren't fully featured in EA nor is the available map fully utilized that there will be more ways to make it work. Stat potions, ability buff scrolls, etc.

Sleep a bit of a strange one, as it's been both buffed and nerfed. One knows the HP of enemy in BG3, and hits on a sleeping creature are now critical hits. Which is a buff. However, on the other hand, you're capped to average roll of 5d8, enemy HP has increased, and your sleeping target can be awoken by a bonus action shove.

Tasha's is just as bad as it is in tabletop, only useful in my opinion if Twinned via Meta-Magic. And since multi-targeting, with Twinned Meta-Magic and many spells in general, in BG3 is horribly implemented, I don't see it as an option. It's really a coin-flip to land the thing anyway, unless you're targeting an Ogre. Originally, Larian had nerfed the spell's duration by 80%.

Of course, spell DCs will slowly rise with level and attribute increase, but I've noticed saving throw buffs to Dex and Wis on some of Larian's 'custom' creatures. In the end, we'll see how it turns out at full release, but I'm speaking of spells in general.

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

I'm only familiar with 3.5, but shouldn't there be plenty of ways to penalize saving throws once out of EA?

In D&D 5e, in general, there's the Bane spell and the Sorcerer's Heighten Spell Meta-Magic. There are also some conditions that penalize Dexterity saving throws as well. But, the spells are designed to work with reasonable efficiency in a particular environment, and Larian's been mucking around with that environment fairly heavily.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

IgnatiusJ.Reilly님이 먼저 게시:

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

I'm only familiar with 3.5, but shouldn't there be plenty of ways to penalize saving throws once out of EA?

In D&D 5e, in general, there's the Bane spell and the Sorcerer's Heighten Spell Meta-Magic. There are also some conditions that penalize Dexterity saving throws as well. But, the spells are designed to work with reasonable efficiency in a particular environment, and Larian's been mucking around with that environment fairly heavily.

I think I expected 5E to be more similar to 3.5 than it is. I never looked at the full spell and feat lists, it's extremely condensed in comparison. 3.5 PHB has to be like twice the size.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

IgnatiusJ.Reilly님이 먼저 게시:

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

Isn't that offset by the fact that you can examine and determine which saving throws enemies are worst at? You can buff INT/WIS/CHA, hex the saving stat, and target the lowest save. I've gotten as far as clearing the blighted village, the matriarch, the shadow druid fight, the gnolls, the paladins, just turned level 4 and haven't had any issues utilizing all of the spellcasters. Sleep and hideous laughter helped me steamroll a lot of encounters. I'd also assume that because the classes/subclasses aren't fully featured in EA nor is the available map fully utilized that there will be more ways to make it work. Stat potions, ability buff scrolls, etc.

Sleep a bit of a strange one, as it's been both buffed and nerfed. One knows the HP of enemy in BG3, and hits on a sleeping creature are now critical hits. Which is a buff. However, on the other hand, you're capped to average roll of 5d8, enemy HP has increased, and your sleeping target can be awoken by a bonus action shove.

Tasha's is just as bad as it is in tabletop, only useful in my opinion if Twinned via Meta-Magic. And since multi-targeting, with Twinned Meta-Magic and many spells in general, in BG3 is horribly implemented, I don't see it as an option. It's really a coin-flip to land the thing anyway, unless you're targeting an Ogre. Originally, Larian had nerfed the spell's duration by 80%.

Of course, spell DCs will slowly rise with level and attribute increase, but I've noticed saving throw buffs to Dex and Wis on some of Larian's 'custom' creatures. In the end, we'll see how it turns out at full release, but I'm speaking of spells in general.

Maybe so, but Tasha's made the Paladins of Tyr and Harpies encounters very easy for me.

[dolby]

BeautifulFlowerField님이 먼저 게시:

I'm only familiar with 3.5, but shouldn't there be plenty of ways to penalize saving throws once out of EA?

You have a few things like bane all the homebrew weapon attacks and all sorts of other effects like stuns and ensnare like spells...pets attacks... Sorcerers have Heightened Spell...

Bestow Curse would be good if the upcast wasn't gated at level 5 slot for no concentration so more then half of the game will be over by that point so and if you are a cleric you got Contagion at tha point anyway but that's a con save spell so yeah i guess that's something. no clue why upcast limit was done that way.


Other than that casting stat..and any items that boost that beyond 20... Robe of the archmagi let say does the same thing to DC or at least it did not sure if its still a thing in 5e... I'm sure larian will add more homebrew to add to the weapons attacks and pets those do help already so...

[Lucky Mud]

I think it's a power curve thing. Traditionally, physical characters excel at lower levels and casters have their glory in later levels. Certainly casters provide more utility and control, even at lower levels.

But, for my money, give me a warlock with the electricity staff, and she's going to be carrying the party by level 3. Getting the +1 attack bonus from the electrical charges helps a lot to ensure hits, and you can stack up quite a few charges with multi-hit abilities (Scorching Ray). If you stack on some hex damage (which needn't even cost you a spell if you cast it previous to your last short rest) that procs three times in a round, you'll see some faces melt I promise.

I will agree that Wizards, Bards, Sorcerers and caster Druids are fairly puny right now though.

[Solaris]

Hmm, I don't agree that spellcasters are less powerful. Harder to play though. A wizard can effectively ruin mirror image in one go using magic missile for instance, or sure-kill lesser monsters. Limited spells is imo what limits their power. The fighter can go on and on, but the wizard is not worth much once his spells are depleted. Use spells in a clever way and your spellcasters can turn the fight around in your favour. There are not so many choices at lower levels, but it will get better. A well placed fireball does way more damage than a fighter could in one round. I chose a sorcerer for my main character in one playthrough and found him to be just as good in combat as a fighter.