[Question] Is there a Stat (Ability) Cap of 20 ?

[Schutzengel]

Hello all,

5e normally has this Stat Cap of 20 for all Stats and only the Barbarian's Level 20 Capstone Ability "Primal Champion" alters it and so only to 24 and only for Strength and Constitution.

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Edit: I tested these things by cheating my Stats to 18+Racial Bonuses.

Test 1 - Racial Bonuses
Contrary to D&D 5e, Racial Bonuses allow any Stat to exceed the Stat Cap of 20, meaning while the Stat Cap might be in place for Base Stats, Racial Bonuses are factored in only after the Base Stats, as can be seen in the below picture.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2835026694

At 18+2 Dexterity, I was able to allocate both my ASI towards Dexterity for a combined of 22 Dex. This means that Races like Elf are superior to others when going for a Dex Class like Rogue and a Gnome will always be the better Wizard.

Test 2 - Feat Bonuses
Contrary to D&D 5e, Feat Bonuses also allow any Stat to exceed the Stat Cap of 20, as can be seen below.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2835030689

At 20+1 Charisma, I was able to get the increase in Charisma for picking the "Performer" Feat introduced with Patch 8 (Bard) which adds "Musical Instrument Proficiency" as well as +1 to Cha.

While the Half-Elf / Tiefling already can achieve 22 Cha due to their Racial Bonuses, a Human / Drow / Lightfoot Halfling non-Bard, because the Bard already has "Musical Instrument Proficiency" and would not be eligible for, who picks "Performer", can also get to 22 Cha using a Feat pick.

In this test I also noticed that the Stat Cap of 20 is in fact non-existant. I could pick any Stat to increase past 20 using the standard ASI, so the OP question can be answered with a clear: No. There is no Stat Cap of 20.

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Racial Stat Bonuses when getting an Ability Score Increase

I wonder how Racial Bonuses and the like are factored into this calculation. Now, Im not meaning how it should be working, Im meaning how its actually implemented in-game.

[ Example 1 - 5e / expected result:
An Elf with +2 Dex would have a Stat Cap of 18 Dex + 2 Dex from his Race. If an Elf has 17 Dex already and chooses to get an Ability Score Increase, she cannot put 2 Stat Points into Dex, as that would raise her Dexterity to 21, meaning above the Stat Cap. ]

Is this 1:1 the actual implementation of BG3 ? Or can an Elf get to 22 Dexterity in-game, because any Racial Bonuses are excluded from the Stat Cap equation ?

If the latter is true, this has a large impact of the chosen Race toward the chosen Class / Multiclass. A Gnome would be a better Wizard in all cases, an Elf would be a better Rogue, etc.

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Feats with Stat Bonuses

I also wonder how some of the Feats are factored into this equation.

[ Example 2 -5e / expected result:
An Elf with a current Strength of 10 and a Dex of 18+2 chooses to pick the Feat "Moderately Armed", which apart from the gear Proficiency, allows her to raise either of Strength or Dexterity by 1. She can only increase her Strength because she is already at her Stat Cap of 18 Dexterity +2 from her Race. ]

Is this 1:1 the actual implementation of BG 3 ? Or can the Elf choose to increase her Dex by 1 this way ?

[ Example 3 -5e / expected result:
An Elf with a current Strength of 20 and a Dex of 18+2 chooses to pick the Feat "Moderately Armed", which apart from the gear Proficiency, allows her to raise either of Strength or Dexterity by 1.

She cant increase either of her Strength or Dexterity because she is already at her Stat Cap of 20 Str and 18 Dex +2 from her Race. In effect, choosing this Feat, the game takes note of her current Stats and ejects the step that allows for a +1 Stat Increase and occurs after picking this Feat .]

Is this 1:1 the actual implementation of BG 3 ? Or can the Elf choose to increase either her Str or Dex by 1 this way and thus raise that stat past 20 ?

.

Essentially, does the game work this way ?
Current Dex: 23
base Stat: 20
from Race: +2
from Moderately Armed: +1

Id like to know how these things are implemented in-game so I can plan my character builds much better beforehand.

Sincerely.

.

[SnarkOne]

Stat cap creation is 15 (without racial bonuses), so if you make a gold dwarf you get 15+2 = 17 starting con.

The ability score increase is capped at 20; so for that dwaf of 15+2, you can add 2 more to a total of 17+2 = 19... Since we're capped at level 4 & that's only 1 feat, I checked this with a few mods in patch 6 (idk if it's the same now); The racial bonuses are Also CALCULATED in the equation, so you cannot go past 20 with the ability score increase. The most you'll get is 18+2 or a flat 20(in theory with ability scores if feats aren't limited). Reality is 15+2 before level 4...
However, you can go past the 20 cap with feats like Moderately armed which give +1 to dex or str; This will make you go 18+2+1 to a total of 21 dex or str.

Hope this answers your question

[Schutzengel]

Автор сообщения: SnarkOne

Stat cap creation is 15 (without racial bonuses), so if you make a gold dwarf you get 15+2 = 17 starting con.

The ability score increase is capped at 20; so for that dwaf of 15+2, you can add 2 more to a total of 17+2 = 19... Since we're capped at level 4 & that's only 1 feat, I checked this with a few mods in patch 6 (idk if it's the same now); The racial bonuses are Also CALCULATED in the equation, so you cannot go past 20 with the ability score increase. The most you'll get is 18+2 or a flat 20(in theory with ability scores if feats aren't limited). Reality is 15+2 before level 4...
However, you can go past the 20 cap with feats like Moderately armed which give +1 to dex or str; This will make you go 18+2+1 to a total of 21 dex or str.

Hope this answers your question

So the Racial Bonuses are working as intended by 5e, but the Feats are not. Im happy that Im not forced to play a Gnome Wizard, the presented female Gnome head choices are far too Nordic looking for my preference.

As for Feats, does the game acknowledge their existence if you got for an ASI later on, meaning if youre at 20 and pick a Feat the Stat gets to 21, but if youre at 19 and pick the same Feat which brings you to 20 you then cant ASI the base (minus Feat) to 20 ?

I can remember the same dilemma in Fallout 4, where if you got a SPECIAL Stat to 10 and then picked up the Bobblehead you could achieve 11, but if you picked up the Bobblehead prior to getting the SPECIAL Stat to 10 youd then be locked at 10, because the game acknowledged the Bobblehead the moment you picked it up for what increases you could get to your SPECIAL Stats on leveling up.

If a simlar mechanic is in place in BG3, the best approach would be to get a Stat to 20 and then pick Feats that buff it further as opposed to picking up Feats and then be locked at 20.

It would also limit Stats past 20 to what increases the available Feats offer. Since the Feats at hand only ever increase Strength and Dexterity, Classes that use these Stats are a tad more viable compared to Classes that cant further increase their Main Stat past 20 using Feats.

[SnarkOne]

Автор сообщения: Schutzengel

As for Feats, does the game acknowledge their existence if you got for an ASI later on, meaning if youre at 20 and pick a Feat the Stat gets to 21, but if youre at 19 and pick the same Feat which brings you to 20 you then cant ASI the base (minus Feat) to 20 ?

If a simlar mechanic is in place in BG3, the best approach would be to get a Stat to 20 and then pick Feats that buff it further as opposed to picking up Feats and then be locked at 20.

It would also limit Stats past 20 to what increases the available Feats offer. Since the Feats at hand only ever increase Strength and Dexterity, Classes that use these Stats are a tad more viable compared to Classes that cant further increase their Main Stat past 20 using Feats.

I can't say this for certain because I haven't spent that much time exploring all the min-max options; but i ASSUME that the game calculates the stats as a total, so if you go from 19+1 using some feat... then you can't ASI yourself to 21 or 22. There's a description when you pick the ASI that it's capped at 20. I believe the math for the 20 cap is done only to what you currently have & doesn't calculate how it was achieved.

[Schutzengel]

I tested how things work out as of Patch 8 and whether or not there is a Stat Cap of 20 and the clear answer to the OPs question is: No.

Stats can exceed 20 by using an ASI, Feat pick and from Racial Bonuses.

An Elf will always be more dextrous than a non-Elf, a Tiefling / Half-Elf will always be more charismatic than all other Races. Wanted to share.

[dolby]

cap is 20 apparently yes and you cant test it... Cos you need a full game for that and you can't cheat so ..:)

[Shwin]

Without any temporary boosts or stat-boosting magic items, you are capped at a score of 20 (with the exception of a max-level barbarian that can turn their Strength and Constitution scores from 20 to 24).

As per the 5e ruleset, you cannot use an ASI, Feat or racial modifier to exceed the 20 stat cap. Feats that grant a +1 to a stat, pushing it above 20 should be a bug. I wouldn't expect to see that in a full release. Same goes for racial bonuses.

As I mentioned, there are temporary boosts and magic items to boost above 20. Things like Manuals (Bodily Health, Gainful Exercise, Quickness of Action) Potions or Belts of Giant Strength (Hill, Stone, Frost, Fire, Cloud, Storm) and very specific Artifacts that may or may not grant the chance to raise one ability score to a max of 24 will do that.

Regardless, instead of min-maxing a character build, you can diversify your feat choices to get those very helpful advantages. Personally, I'll be diving into Lucky, Inspiring Leader, Mobile and Martial Adept just to be cheeky. If you want more information, I highly recommend using the 5e Player's Handbook.