sorcerer draconic resilience

[dolby]

Edit: not a bug, but tool tip could do with more clarity.
Mage armor bonus isn't added when you have draconic resilience armor bonus active.

Both mage armor and draconic resilience have the same prerequisite in tooltip:

Not wearing armor.


Armor needs to be added from Mage armor spell
or draconic resilience tooltip needs to be fixed.
i would think the first one is the case...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

So, they don't stack, because are both an "AC replacement" effect.

In short, both Draconic Resilience and Mage Armor set your AC to 13, they do not just give you a +3 to AC.

Since they do the exact same thing (set your AC to 13) there's no need to have both.

This is intentional in 5e and is part of bounded accuracy - basically it's to prevent players from achieving astronomical AC values (which in turn would require enemies with astronomical bonuses to hit, starting an arms race over buffs that ends in...Pathfinder).

[dolby]

引用自 pandariuskairos：

So, they don't stack, because are both an "AC replacement" effect.

In short, both Draconic Resilience and Mage Armor set your AC to 13, they do not just give you a +3 to AC.

Since they do the exact same thing (set your AC to 13) there's no need to have both.

This is intentional in 5e and is part of bounded accuracy - basically it's to prevent players from achieving astronomical AC values (which in turn would require enemies with astronomical bonuses to hit, starting an arms race over buffs that ends in...Pathfinder).

i guess we are stuck with just an edge case use again as always. Classic 5e stuff never will i understand people who made 5e. So much stuff meh... no wonder Larian is changing stuff left and right.

i can have a CLASS skill in a scroll what a waste...


anyway, like i said if this is the case they need to fix the tool tip. Mark it in red so people don't waste spell slots in character creation with draconic bloodline.

i really don't get it how WoTc devs couldn't come up with a better Class skill... Just a new player trap. Luckily i expected it cos god forbid 5e would be fun, so in the end it was just a wasted scroll.

if this was my first playthrough in video game i would be very annoyed right about now and if this was DnD i would be fighting with DM heh.

Why even give sorcerers mage armor spell just leave it as a wizard spell. God knows they should have a separate spells lists in the first place.

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

引用自 dolby：

引用自 pandariuskairos：

So, they don't stack, because are both an "AC replacement" effect.

In short, both Draconic Resilience and Mage Armor set your AC to 13, they do not just give you a +3 to AC.

Since they do the exact same thing (set your AC to 13) there's no need to have both.

This is intentional in 5e and is part of bounded accuracy - basically it's to prevent players from achieving astronomical AC values (which in turn would require enemies with astronomical bonuses to hit, starting an arms race over buffs that ends in...Pathfinder).

i guess we are stuck with just an edge case use again as always. Classic 5e stuff never will i understand people who made 5e. So much stuff meh... no wonder Larian is changing stuff left and right.

i can have a CLASS skill in a scroll what a waste...


anyway, like i said if this is the case they need to fix the tool tip. Mark it in red so people don't waste spell slots in character creation with draconic bloodline.

i really don't get it how WoTc devs couldn't come up with a better Class skill... Just a new player trap. Luckily i expected it cos god forbid 5e would be fun, so in the end it was just a wasted scroll.

if this was my first playthrough in video game i would be very annoyed right about now and if this was DnD i would be fighting with DM heh.

Why even give sorcerers mage armor spell just leave it as a wizard spell. God knows they should have a separate spells lists in the first place.

To be honest, that kinda surprised me only because draconic said "+3 armor class" it didn't say it raises my base armor class by 3, which mage armor does. The only thing i would expect is a better wording like "Your base armor class is increased by 3" similar to mage armor, so we can expect them not to stack, by telling us base armor class.

[dolby]

引用自 elitkrumpliharcos：

引用自 dolby：

i guess we are stuck with just an edge case use again as always. Classic 5e stuff never will i understand people who made 5e. So much stuff meh... no wonder Larian is changing stuff left and right.

i can have a CLASS skill in a scroll what a waste...


anyway, like i said if this is the case they need to fix the tool tip. Mark it in red so people don't waste spell slots in character creation with draconic bloodline.

i really don't get it how WoTc devs couldn't come up with a better Class skill... Just a new player trap. Luckily i expected it cos god forbid 5e would be fun, so in the end it was just a wasted scroll.

if this was my first playthrough in video game i would be very annoyed right about now and if this was DnD i would be fighting with DM heh.

Why even give sorcerers mage armor spell just leave it as a wizard spell. God knows they should have a separate spells lists in the first place.

To be honest, that kinda surprised me only because draconic said "+3 armor class" it didn't say it raises my base armor class by 3, which mage armor does. The only thing i would expect is a better wording like "Your base armor class is increased by 3" similar to mage armor, so we can expect them not to stack, by telling us base armor class.

welli, expected it, cos after 1 year of EA i know how much 5e hates stacking. I just wasn't sure...and like you said tooltips are little help..
But if someone never played dnd or played older versions they would be disappointed.
No clue why they didn't just make it +1 and let it stack...
For 16 armor it would actullty be worth getting mage armor spell as known spell. i guess it would be to op.:)

As is right now, for myself i would never get it, not really even if i would play wild magic. Scrolls are just to easy to get in this game. Even as a wizzard i think i never wasted a spell slot on it cos you always have few mage armor scrolls around.

[TheBlueFox]

The reason they didn't want to make it +1 and let it stack is because they didn't want you to Cast mage armor
And have Draconic resilience
And have unarmored defense
And have Barkskin

They wanted to get RID of Pre-buffing. So no stacking buffs. you just get the one best one that works for your class.

[dolby]

引用自 TheBlueFox：

The reason they didn't want to make it +1 and let it stack is because they didn't want you to Cast mage armor
And have Draconic resilience
And have unarmored defense
And have Barkskin

They wanted to get RID of Pre-buffing. So no stacking buffs. you just get the one best one that works for your class.

you still have to prebuff not that it's anythign wrong with it...i have no clue where this pre buffing hate comes from...i guess from table top? Where everything takes ages?

[seandeven]

引用自 dolby：

引用自 TheBlueFox：

The reason they didn't want to make it +1 and let it stack is because they didn't want you to Cast mage armor
And have Draconic resilience
And have unarmored defense
And have Barkskin

They wanted to get RID of Pre-buffing. So no stacking buffs. you just get the one best one that works for your class.

you still have to prebuff not that it's anythign wrong with it...i have no clue where this pre buffing hate comes from...i guess from table top? Where everything takes ages?

Yes, unequivocally yes, this is where the pre-buff hate comes from. Jonny the mage and Anji the cleric just took 30 minutes buffing the party. Not everything takes ages..... Just taking time to cast spells...... the same spells over and over. Every session, every 30 minutes you could have back to adventure forth. This is where the pre-buff hate originates.

[dolby]

引用自 seandeven：

引用自 dolby：

you still have to prebuff not that it's anythign wrong with it...i have no clue where this pre buffing hate comes from...i guess from table top? Where everything takes ages?

Yes, unequivocally yes, this is where the pre-buff hate comes from. Jonny the mage and Anji the cleric just took 30 minutes buffing the party. Not everything takes ages..... Just taking time to cast spells...... the same spells over and over. Every session, every 30 minutes you could have back to adventure forth. This is where the pre-buff hate originates.

knew it ! Makes sense...

But this is a video game.:))

You can have a feature on spell book where you store all the spells you want to prebuff in one nice separat line or two. And then you just hit one button and ALLLL those spells get cast one after the other... Players just enjoy the effects and animations, pure caster greatness... BG 2 even had a mid combat versions
easy peasy.:)
Oh well, maybe someday someone will make Video game again that actuality feels like DND but is not like DnD.

[Hobocop]

Too much prebuffing is a problem because it stops being a nice thing to have and becomes a mandatory chore to do after every single rest when it goes too far. It's one of the reasons why I dislike both Pathfinder games because they balance around the assumption that you'll be stacked up, basically using it as a replacement for actual encounter design, and you die immediately if you don't have your giant prebuff stack going.

[dolby]

引用自 Hobocop：

Too much prebuffing is a problem because it stops being a nice thing to have and becomes a mandatory chore to do after every single rest when it goes too far. It's one of the reasons why I dislike both Pathfinder games because they balance around the assumption that you'll be stacked up, basically using it as a replacement for actual encounter design, and you die immediately if you don't have your giant prebuff stack going.

Well, in that game the balance is completely artificial... Crayze modifiers are just droped on everything.
So i can see how someone would find it tedious especially if you need to do it by hand... But there is no reason one should have to do it, in a video game.

And there is always middle ground, pathfinder is the other extreme, complete opposite to 5e.

Devs need to find a middle ground. At least for my taste. This is why i love the new high ground bonus and weapon abilities.

[War Maiden]

There is also one other thing.
If you play a Draconic Drow Sorc and you get your Dex to 17 in Character Creation, then the mage armor spell is a complete waste to get, as it only sets your AC to 13. The very same 13 AC you get with having those scales plus your regular default outfit. Then after that plus whatever + to DEX you have will, like with my Draconic Drow Sorc having 17 DEX, gets a +3 to it so she has 16 AC.

[dolby]

yeah they just use bad tooltips for the game and for PHB...
IF they do the same thing there is no reason not to use the same wording. but whatever. Not to mention why the ♥♥♥♥ dont they just say that it doesn't stack with mage armor like how hard is it to type that...
At least they coud use "sets" instead of equals" cos how you get to that 13 can be explaind in alot of ways...

But knowing 5e and the hate it has for stacking panda was right, sadly.

[Dragon Master]

引用自 War Maiden：

There is also one other thing.
If you play a Draconic Drow Sorc and you get your Dex to 17 in Character Creation, then the mage armor spell is a complete waste to get, as it only sets your AC to 13. The very same 13 AC you get with having those scales plus your regular default outfit. Then after that plus whatever + to DEX you have will, like with my Draconic Drow Sorc having 17 DEX, gets a +3 to it so she has 16 AC.

Well, odd numbers above 10 don't do anything. It's the even numbers that change the modifier.

But yeah, Mage Armor sets AC to 13 + Dex and Dragon Scales do the exact same thing. Dragon sorcerers basically have mage armor on all the time, and since they get limited spells it makes sense for players not to pick up mage armor if you'r a draconic sorcerer when you can heighten or twin scorching ray.

[dolby]

引用自 Dragon Master：

Dragon sorcerers basically have mage armor on all the time, and since they get limited spells it makes sense for players not to pick up mage armor if you'r a draconic sorcerer when you can heighten or twin scorching ray.

Would you pick it with other sub classes ? cos i'm pretty sure i woudn't. i reckon i would buy the scrolls or just make do without..

[thrythlind]

Rule of thumb: If you have multiple features that give an AC equation, only the most beneficial equation takes effect.

So:

Unarmored
Light Armor
Medium Armor
Natural Armor
Unarmored Defense (Monk/Barbarian)
Mage Armor
Barkskin

Unarmored Defense class feature also specifically says that if you get the feature from two classes, only the first source counts ever.

Things that give an AC bonus do not stack with other things of the same name but will stack freely with other sources of different names.

So:

Actual Shields
Shield and Armor enhancement bonuses
Shield Spell
Shield of Faith
Defense Fighting Style
Ring of Protection
Cloak of Protection
Bracers of Defense
Dual Wield feat bonus
Defender Sword AC bonus
Various Reaction abilities such as Beast Barbarian Tail option, Defensive Duelist Feat, Battlemaster Parry

This is not to prevent Pre-Buffing.

It's to prevent the insane modifier stacking that afflicted 3.X.

The way Concentration and Attunement work also contribute to this.

I could, in theory, have a Defender sword setting all of its bonus to AC (+3), a +3 Shield, a +3 set of plate armor, a Ring of Protection, a Cloak of Protection, Shield of Faith, and then throw in Battlemaster Parry with d12 superiority dice and you could get up to 45 AC for one attack.

That sounds and looks a bit silly but it's loads better than the sort of eternal effect stacking you got in 3.X.

In the case of "why give sorcerers Mage Armor?" it's because Draconic Sorcerer is the only one that has this innate. Similarly, if you play a Mountain Dwarf or Githyanki, you also get Medium Armor proficiency as a race thing at which point you won't need Mage Armor either since you'll be able to get comparable ACs without spending a spell slot... though you may want to have a 12 strength to avoid encumbrance issues.

Currently, there are only two sorcerer heritages (which I can't play with because the current patch is just broken for me and crashes when I try to make a character) but if we see further heritages down the line then we'll see this:

Wild Mage - no innate AC bonus
Shadow - no innate AC bonus
Aberrant Mind - no innate AC bonus
Divine Soul - no innate AC bonus
Clockwork Soul - no innate AC bonus
Storm - no innate AC bonus
Draconic - innate AC... hey, you save the casting of a 1st level spell.

EDIT: If tool tips are saying "Raises Base AC by 3" that's changing the language used by WotC for AC equations and might be a source of confusion.