Non-D&D things in a "D&D 5th edition" game

[Bismillah Enjoyer]

Okay, I've been trying this game on a friend's account and I have to say I'm really disappointed.
I am a veteran D&D player and a big fan of the original Baldur's Gate series.

I understand there are certain thing which will be addressed and fixed before the full release and I won't be talking about those in this post. (bad animations, frequent bugs, etc.)

What I will talk about however, is how the core concept of the game tries to merge D&D mechanics with Divinity mechanics. (That's a huge no no for me. You're either D&D or you're not D&D at all.)

Here's an example : Ranged poison spit attacks of spiders (phase spiders in the caves which lead to underdark) leave a poison puddle beneath your character's feet and any other character who walks over it has to make a con save or become poisoned. That's divinity and it sticks out like a sore thumb. That does not exist in D&D 5th edition AT ALL. I haven't progressed too far yet, but does this mean every time I cast a 'Fireball spell' I'm going to have to deal with a burning circle in the middle of the combat area? I'm sorry, is this Divinity? or is this Baldur's Gate?

Here's another example : You have thieves tools in the game which you can use to pick locks. Very well, D&D 5e has thieves tools too. They are not one time use consumables unlike how it is represented in the game though. There are magical items in the game which does not exist in D&D (ok, we can give that a pass for the sake of diversity since this is a video game)
but why does my character have 18 (EIGHTTEEN) healing potions at level 3? Seems to me like you failed to implement a proper short/long rest cycle that fits the gameplay and decided to substitute it with an abundance of healing potions. I've been playing D&D for over 20 years and I can safely say none of my characters ever had 18 healing potions before. EVER. My divinity characters had tons of healing potions though. (see where I'm going with this?)

And another example : Some spells work differently compared to their D&D counterparts and it is very annoying. Mirror Image spell provides the caster +3 AC per image they conjure. (No offense but that's just a lazy workaround. That's not what 'Mirror Image' spell is supposed to do. Not to mention the 1st level wizard spell 'Shield' straight up does not exist even though the developers put in a reaction mechanic.

Listen, I like your work and I only want it to improve further. But you have to decide what you want this game to be. Is it going to be an awkward and out of place combination of Divinity mechanics and D&D 5E? Or is it going to stay true to the D&D rule set and aim to provide a consistent world to play in?

Bugs and animations can be fixed in time, but if you mess up the consistency of the game rules (making it "less D&D" in any way) there's no way you're going to patch it up later.

Make up your mind Larian.

[dulany67]

The DOS stuff is a valid argument, but honestly I think most of it is good. Though I do dislike the acid surfaces.

[Altihex]

I'm alright with having a more reactive world.As a GM I also tended to make spells more than just one and done type of effects.I enjoy spells causing effects on the world. I do believe that spells like cantrips should have less of a chance of creating a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ slippery surface big enough for multiple people to trip.

Let's discuss some stuff.

"That does not exist in D&D 5th edition at all".
-RULE 0. The GM creates whatever he wants. I hate your kind of player that tells me, the GM, "NO, OGRES CANT DO THAT." The Ogres do what I say they do.

'every time I cast a 'Fireball spell' I'm going to have to deal with a burning circle in the middle of the combat area?'
-Well, yeah. Fireball should ignite any non-carried flamable item, as per description in 5e. Tables, wood, grass, pieces of spider web, paper, stuff on the floor.

'why does my character have 18 (EIGHTTEEN) healing potions at level 3?'
Seems normal. You have a party of 4 players, and are traveling in inhabited areas where people live. It would be unusual if they dont have potions and items like food and meat and such.I love how 'real' places feel. Bedrooms, random items.

' Some spells work differently compared to their D&D counterparts'
Yes, this is videogame with a lot more combat than the average DND game.Things have to be adapted to work better. If you had 'Shield' as a reaction type ability that burns a 1st level slot, I suppose It could be done.The problem is that since you cant see the dice roll, you dont know if it would be worth spending the Shield reaction spell. I'm sure they're working on a way to make it possible. Same with Mirror Image.

I'm okay with them taking some liberties with 5th Ed DnD. BG1 and 2 had a ton of liberties from 2nd Ed and even started blending ♥♥♥♥ from 3rd ED and even Epic level rules.

[zenebatos1]

There is spells and effects that leaves Difficult terrains and terrain effects in D&D, i dunno what kind of D&D5 you've been playing...

[Bismillah Enjoyer]

You're really going to sit there and tell me you're not seeing the Divinity influence here?

I'm not saying it's all bad either. It just feels more divinity than it should in my opinion.

[zenebatos1]

Originally posted by Altihex:

I'm okay with them taking some liberties with 5th Ed DnD. BG1 and 2 had a ton of liberties from 2nd Ed and even started blending ♥♥♥♥ from 3rd ED and even Epic level rules.

This.

Too many people think that for some odd reason out of nowhere Bg1 & 2 where PERFECT rendition of the AD&D rule set, with nothing changed from the port to Video game...lol

There are things that can be and cannot be done, cause the "Eninge" and mecanics involved ain't the same...

[BW022]

By 5e rules... oil, acid, and alchemists fire is single target only. Nor would I expect every other goblin to have a 25gp or 50gp consumable. Grease cannot be ignited. You can't throw barrels. There are no grease bottles. I don't mind that surface affects exist, but Larian is basically nurfing the rules so for the "look what I can do" feel. They also have massive effects unintended consequences on game play, tactics, difficulty, etc.

Failing prone does not end your turn. Disengage and hide should be actions (not bonus) and thus rogues shouldn't get an extra bonus action, but just allow these to be bonus actions.

[zenebatos1]

Originally posted by Fasho Yolo:

You're really going to sit there and tell me you're not seeing the Divinity influence here?

And?... why is it such a bad thing?

Our Dm has been throwing that kind of stuff at us in our Midgard campaign, we din't start to wet ourselfs, we though about it tacticaly and if they could do it, so could we and it worked out great

[Planeforger]

In one of my current 5e campaigns, I cast Create Bonfire just about every battle. It creates a burning surface that damages enemies over and over (if they stay in the fire).

In my previous 5e campaign, our sorcerer was a total pyromaniac. He cast Web every battle, and then ignited it with his many, many fire spells and equipment. RAW, Web is a flammable surface that can damage over time when ignited.

In the campaign before that, a band of goblins had raided a town and broke into an alchemist's shop. So yeah, they obviously had alchemist's fire.

Oh, and also in my current campaign, kobolds tend to carry around vials of acid, skunks, and other damage over time/area effect attacks. Not to mention frost giants throwing beehives at people.

So...uh, I get what the OP is saying, but it's not like these environmental effects are totally incompatible with D&D 5e.

[Bismillah Enjoyer]

Originally posted by zenebatos1:

Originally posted by Fasho Yolo:

You're really going to sit there and tell me you're not seeing the Divinity influence here?

And?... why is it such a bad thing?

Our Dm has been throwing that kind of stuff at us in our Midgard campaign, we din't start to wet ourselfs, we though about it tacticaly and if they could do it, so could we and it worked out great

Lingering surface effects will straight up break the game balance in my opinion. There's a reason why some attacks and spells have limitations. Can you imagine taking 8d6 fire damage from a fireball and then have to walk out of the fire taking 1d4 extra fire damage per 5ft of movement?
That pushes the damage of that spell from 8d6 to 8d6 + 4d4.

It isn't only true for spells either. Spiders spit at your characters from afar as a 'single target attack' and leave poison puddles all over the place. That's not how D&D combat works. That's how Divinity combat works.

[Planeforger]

For reference, here's an official 5e enemy - a kobold inventor: https://www.aidedd.org/dnd/monstres.php?vo=kobold-inventor

[Bismillah Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Planeforger:

For reference, here's an official 5e enemy - a kobold inventor: https://www.aidedd.org/dnd/monstres.php?vo=kobold-inventor

That is a specific enemy type in D&D.
Just because a specific type of enemy creature that exist in D&D can do things like that doesn't mean every enemy should.
Just to be clear, I'm not bothered by the difficulty implications of this mechanic. I am however annoyed that this game feels more like Divinity rather than Baldur's Gate. And that's why I don't like it.

[hello]

Originally posted by Fasho Yolo:

Make up your mind Larian.

We've known since the game was announced that the game was BG in name only, which is why it's "BG"3 rather than BG3 as it's not actually a Baldur's Gate game.

[Oku]

I hate this dumb argument because the DMs that adhere strictly to a "if it's not written in the rulebook you're not allowed to do it" are the most pretentious and boring game-runners in the hobby.

The rules are a baseline, everything beyond that uses the rules to enhance the experience through creativity.

[hello]

Originally posted by Aarkethrix:

I hate this dumb argument because the DMs that adhere strictly to a "if it's not written in the rulebook you're not allowed to do it" are the most pretentious and boring game-runners in the hobby.

The rules are a baseline, everything beyond that uses the rules to enhance the experience through creativity.

Copy pasting DOS sure as ♥♥♥♥ isn't creative tho

[Bismillah Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Aarkethrix:

I hate this dumb argument because the DMs that adhere strictly to a "if it's not written in the rulebook you're not allowed to do it" are the most pretentious and boring game-runners in the hobby.

The rules are a baseline, everything beyond that uses the rules to enhance the experience through creativity.

Good DM's know that rules are there for a reason and often refer to the existing rules for guidance. I'm not saying everything should be according to what the book says, but you need to take the game balance into account when changing something. Otherwise you're just gonna end up with a broken mess of a game that no one enjoys.

I bet you play anime characters in D&D. I hate your dumb snowflake argument too.