[Major Spoilers] Prince Orpheus or the Emperor

[Merevity214]

Let me preface this by saying: I am in love with this game. Baldur's Gate 3 is the reason I got my first gaming computer. I've played BG3 for something like three years. My hours logged on BG3 is a bit embarrassing to be honest. And I don't have very many grievances with it. I enjoyed all the acts and wondered why Act 3 was so critiqued by many players.

Then I hit the endgame quest.

Oh, boy. The reveal about the netherbrain's machinations was awesome. The emperor saving us? Great. Choosing between saving prince orpheus or having the emperor eat his brain and assimilate his powers? Less so.

I understand the Emperor's caution and objection to freeing the githyanki prince. And there are signs of the Emperor's devious and power-hungry nature as the player further interacts with it. So trying to take the prince's powers for himself, I can believe. What I don't believe to be believable or even understandable is the Emperor defecting to the Netherbrain's side if you choose to free the prince.

The one consistent and clear motivation of the Emperor throughout the game is it's desire to defeat the Absolute, or as is revealed, the Netherbrain. Choosing to abandon all it's efforts and give up the freedom it so cherishes, feels character breaking. I believe another gamer review on here said, that its more believable that it would keep it's distance or flee the city. Which are far more in line with the Emperor's character.

But I raise another option.

We should be able to convince the Emperor to at least attempt an alliance with Prince Orpheus.

Throughout the game, persuasion/intimidation/deception checks have maintained their same importance in altering the outcomes of encounters/quests and companion quest lines. In Act 2, there are at least four enemies that you can persuade to off themselves. If you confront Orin without Gortash's netherstone, you can convince her to not kill your kidnapped companion. Persuasions checks are entirely character changing for nearly all your companions personal quests.

I truly loved how much agency it gives to the player. It feels like actual roleplaying and I love it.

But I guess it all really boils down to this: I want the happy ending.

I want all the happy endings for these characters that Larian Studios has gifted us with. I want to convince the Emperor and Orpheus to work together. Because I want proud Lae'zel to fight for her people's freedom alongside the Prince of the Comet. I don't want to let awesome Karlach to become an Illithid just for her to be able to live outside Avernus permanently. And even more selfishly, I want my player character, my Tav to remain happily non-Illithid. But it's the only "good" option. It feels very rail-roading to me. All this time my tav has obstained from using the tadpoles only to lose herself to ceremophosis in the end. To be honest, it's upsetting.

I know this is a more selfish suggestion/feedback. But the consequences of this choice really got to me. It makes me not want to finish BG3.

This all my opinion, of course. Just thought I'd put this out there.

[lil scallop]

you make a lot of convincing points

to play devil's advocate for a second, though, you could argue that The Emperor's most defining characteristic is his desire for self-preservation.

when he first became Illithid, he had no problem brain-sucking a bunch of people to stay alive while he gained power and political influence. sure, they were criminals, but do all criminals deserve death? hell, you can literally play as a criminal in this game. it's just an easy excuse.

later, when he had to go back to serving the Elder Brain, he was pretending to be under its control. presumably, he did a lot of horrible ♥♥♥♥ in its name. whether or not that was justifiable is another topic. but certainly he was again willing to put aside morality to survive by doing its bidding while still having free will.

then we have Orpheus and the Githyanki. he imprisoned Orpheus against his will and killed anyone who tried to free him. beyond that, he knew this imprisonment was going to cause mass unrest, indoctrination, oppression, and countless deaths within an entire civilization! not to mention the subsequent destruction the Gith inflict upon Faerun in pursuit of the prism. but The Emperor is willing to do it all because Orpheus and the prism ensure his own protection.

I mean, the irony here is palpable. think about it: The Emperor explicitly states that the thing he cares about the most is freedom, yet he has no problem forcibly imprisoning this guy for all eternity - hypocrite, much? it's just his own freedom that he cares about.

finally, The Emperor's relationship to your character. he lies to you about his identity and certainly has no qualms or regrets about manipulating you. he constantly tries to control you and puts you in difficult positions. he'll say and do anything he needs to in order to ensure his own survival. basically, you are a means to an end - a tool. yes, he protects you from the Brain's influence, but only because he believes you can get him what he wants. and he's so blinded by it that he doesn't even see he's playing right into the Elder Brain's hands all along.

all this is to say, throughout the game, I never got the impression The Emperor cared too much about the people of the world. he just wants to stop the Grand Design because it would take away his own freedom. and even beyond that, his own power. after all, when it comes time to confront the Netherbrain, he's focused on dominating it, not saving lives.

so in the end, his choice to side with the Netherbrain wasn't that surprising to me. in his eyes, you were no longer going to get him what he wanted and he had run out of options. he's thinking: "the Netherbrain is obviously going to win, and at least if I go with the winning side, I can ensure my survival." the only thing he truly cares about.

just my two cents! I think both interpretations are totally valid and Larian created this dichotomy by design. :)

[Zaris]

Did the emperor joined the Netherbrain? I also took the prince route and it seems more like he just got controlled by the brain instantly because the princes powers only kept him safe and after freeing him he fled (for good reason after using him as powersource).

The influence of the netherbrain seems to be country wide (after they left moonrise for BG someone noted that the influence of the netherbrain is still there but weaker and we're talking here about multiple day marshes away).

[Rappeldrache]

[SPOILER!!!!]

[SPOILER!!!!]


The Emporer is against to free Orpheus and he say: "You leave me no option but to join the Netherbrain." .... and is gone .....

I read a lot about the Emperor and ... I really don't like him. I think he always wanted to controll me and he is ... not a nice person at all. Not to say a real ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ! Even don't want to think what he have done to Stelmane & Ansur (see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbBs1b7g-6Y&t=145s). So I don't care about him.

But I REALLY don't understand why we don't have a 4. Option when it is about: "We need a mindflayer" to fight the Netherbrain." WHY we don't have the option to take Omeluum??

And finaly a Happy-end-option (a real one) for Karlach? This with an Omeluum-End-Option would be really a great combination!

Hope Larian does not start to akt like Bioware ...

.

[jacobems]

It was definitely abrupt but my interpretation is that the Emperor is a paranoid, manipulative, egotistical, amoral ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and has been from the first dream. I'd argue that this was probably somewhat true long before he became a mindflayer as well if you know who he used to be (though obviously it'd get much worse after). Think about how many things he said that turned out to be absolutely not true. I don't know how much of that was a lie and how much was paranoia and fear but either way he was never actually trustworthy nor did he ever trust you with the whole truth. I would almost put him in the same category as Raphael honestly. I'm still convinced his endgame was to steal the crown after we take revenge on the elder brain that turned him into a thrall. I don't think he ever intended to do anything for anyone but himself.

[Moonbane]

Yes, the Emperor is a flat out liar, Ansur paid the price for not realizing his old friend was long gone.