How about we ‘shove’ (hoho) these 4 OP game mechanics off an instant-death ledge?

[Beta Ray Shill]

Just got to Grymforge there this week. Only at the start of it, but these 4 broken game mechanics are really sticking out like a sore one. Two are virtually impossible to ignore, as they’re so tied to core gameplay (shove and AOE spells). The other two are cheesy and I try not to use them unless I want to break the game. I’m sure there are tonnes of other cheesy mechanics, but I don’t use stealth, so I’ve no idea how bad it gets with that.

1) Shove (which also includes the wind blast spell and pushing arrow)

I see many people mention shove is broken. So what do you do with shove? Firstly, it never really became apparent to me how ludicrous this is until I got to the Underdark and Grymforge.

Anything that ‘shoves’ the enemies trivialises the game completely. There was a boat battle with evil dwarves: I cast grease on them, knocked them down. Then I had the gith girl shoot two of them with the ‘pushing arrow’ – two in one round, thanks to the ‘adrenaline surge’ ability (forget the name).

Both of the full health dwarves were launched straight off the boat to instant death.
It honestly seemed like I’d enabled cheat mode. And once I saw how it was done, I couldn’t resist doing it again in the battle with the evil cows and the dwarves near the door blocked with rubble. Shove them and they go straight off the ledge. Dead.
Nah. That ain’t right.

I 100% agree with people saying it should be a proper action, not a bonus. But even at that, it’s far too OP.

It’s a game, and everything in it is nonsense. The jump in particular is gamey as it gets, but it’s part of the platforming aspect, which is actually pretty decent IMO. I can suspend disbelief for it. So I think a similar ‘nonsense’ gamey mechanic should be in place, so that when they get shoved/blasted/push-arrowed to instant death, then death is not what happens.

They would ‘magically’ appear at the edge of the cliff they fell off. Let the animation play out, as it’s entertaining to watch. But make them appear at the edge of the cliff afterwards, like characters from the old 2D side-scrollers when they fell into a ‘hole’. They would appear at the edge of the hole with some health lost.

There should be some penalty that possibly involves more than health loss. But the health loss shouldn’t be more than a normal attack dice roll from a regular weapon. The penalty, I think, should be a status effect – anything that doesn’t disable a ‘turn’. The character should be able to escape from the edge of the cliff, otherwise they can just keep being shove-spammed.

Maybe they have their action disabled for 1 round (can’t attack or use spells), but they can use 1 bonus action to run away.

2) AOE spells (spinning daggers, moonbeam)

I like the idea as it adds some strategic novelty. You have to concentrate to keep the AOE active and the concentration can be broken with an attack. Except it’s not very easy for melee type characters – or even ranged characters at times.

It’s OP because they get hit during the first cast. Then when it’s their ‘turn’ they get hit again. And then if they move, they get hit once more. Which is too much.

My suggestion is that a) they get hit the first time then b) they get the opportunity to expend an action to escape the AOE. It means that there’s a nice strategic choice involved. Do you expend the ability to attack or cast a spell, and by doing so escape the AOE? Or do you take the damage and attack instead, because maybe the ‘payoff’ there is worth it, given the scenario.

3) Surprise

I don’t know how this can be triggered against enemies – I presume it involves stealth. But I don’t use stealth as it seems a bit unfair against the AI.

I have, however, had the surprise attack levelled against me during the spectator battle. I couldn’t figure out a way of avoiding it – I even tried stealth. And this little freak would get two full rounds of attacks, and he can already multi-attack. It just seemed lazy encounter design. An artificially-imposed handicap.

Personally, I think no matter what way you look at it, it’s cheesy. I don’t think either the AI or the player should be able to have such a huge advantage. It needs to be toned down to a status effect or an action point penalty if it’s to stay. But I’d rather see it ditched, as I’m guessing that if you know stealth mechanics well enough then this isn’t particularly difficult to pull off time and time again.

4) Familar

I saw a couple of posts in various places saying you can basically own the entire game with just a familiar. I’ve only used it once. It was during that tedious spectator battle mentioned above. I wanted to see if I could get the w**ker to surface with the familiar, while I stayed well away so as not to be ‘surprised’.

So I attacked a drow statue with it. As you’d expect with a player character, this ‘awakens’ the spectator.

It doesn’t awaken him with the familiar. So I could just go around pecking all the statues to death with the crow familiar. Then the surprise attack from the spectator wasn’t as rough, because he couldn’t call in his pals. I just sacrificed the gith girl, then moved in with the others.

---

I’d also like to give a special shout out to the game’s various uniquely loathsome environment puzzles.

I’m talking about Grymforge fireball traps and the never-ending floor puzzle that gets you into the Underdark.

The game is built around turn-based combat. This is what it does best on the ‘gamey’ side of things. It’s not a puzzle game.

These games never really were – but ironically, I did find the puzzles enjoyable in BG2 (I still remember the one where Bodhi traps you in a maze-like place).

So the puzzles become this tacked-on thing. For some reason, all of these game really love to throw in a ‘move the floor pieces around’ puzzle. WOTR has dozens of them. Because yes, that’s exactly what I signed up for when I wanted to burn some free time. I wanted to move misaligned floor pieces around until they all matched. Absolutely. Give me five minutes of that and it’s time to log off right there: too much excitement for one week.

The floor puzzles are just there to p**s the user off into having to shrink the game window, open the web browser and get a youtube video of how to solve them. How many people really really want to try to solve these puzzles?

I’m loathe to say make everything a toggle, but maybe it should be an optional thing when you enter the puzzle room. I mean, I wouldn’t mind having a stab at a puzzle to see if I could solve it. But I wouldn’t want to be stuck for hours at it. Life’s too short.

They can’t stop people from just youtubing the solution – which just makes the game unpleasant to endure for a brief period of time. They could, however, randomise the puzzles – and if they did, I would certainly wish the designer of that idea a special place in hell. Because why would you be so precious about something so completely and utterly gratuitous in relation to the core gameplay experience: combat?

As for the various other flame-trap-like puzzles: I feel they don’t add anything, as they’re very sporadic, and end up seeming gimmicky. They solution is to merely ‘be careful’ for a few dull minutes. For me, there’s no satisfaction in making it out alive here. The strategy is minimal to non-existent.

I think these games really should concentrate on the main piece of entertainment: combat. Leave the puzzles for dedicated puzzle games, where the designers are consistently immersed in the game’s puzzle mechanism, and therefore know how to make something engaging and challenging. The designers of this game are more suited to turn-based combat.

PS: I’d like to say again that a first-person POV would be greatly appreciated. Or failing that, the ability to zoom out at least twice as much as is now available. It’s really grating to try and move around at times. Especially in the Underdark and Grymforge.

Lastly, the mechanic for selecting the characters is perfectly execrable. To the point where it seems a real middle finger from the designers to all those who’ve rightly said it’s crap.
This UX element has been perfected since the dawn of these type of games. You do not screw with it, unless you’ve A/B tested the living hell out of it and are absolutely certain that you’ve an innovation that everyone loves.

They don’t. In case it isn’t obvious. Put the egos aside and simply normalise the character selection, cheers.

[War Maiden]

I may, or may not, respond to this or your other thread, outofcontext, but I really have to know just two things:

1) Whom is the 'yellow girl' you keep mentioning?

2) Why do you call her that?

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by War Maiden:

Whom is the 'yellow girl' you keep mentioning?

New look?

Lae'zel is the 'yellow girl'.

The writing is so lacklustre that I can't remember the names of anyone in the game. It's why I call the dwarves evil dwarves instead of whatever they're actually called.

If you're telling me Lae'zel rolls off the tip of the tongue - well, that's not my experience. I'll have already forgotten the name by the time I click 'post comment', so she'll be back to 'yellow girl' after that.

[War Maiden]

Originally posted by outofcontext:

New look?

Firstly, yes a new look.

I am embracing my whole 'machina' title that a certain someone likes to call me, and the malfunctioning fembot, as another does, into a truly 'self-aware' Rogue AI labeled 'War Maiden'. It is ok if you don't understand, it's not meant for the community as a whole, just a few specific people for my entertainment.

Originally posted by outofcontext:

Lae'zel is the 'yellow girl'.

Well, while it is not what I initially thought, it is not far off.
I would heavily suggest you choose a different 'label' immediately, as the one you chose, can and will, be construed as offensive because it is a 'label' borne from their pigmentation. Such a thing is considered racist and could get you banned.

Originally posted by outofcontext:

The writing is so lacklustre that I can't remember the names of anyone in the game. It's why I call the dwarves evil dwarves instead of whatever they're actually called.

If you're telling me Lae'zel rolls off the tip of the tongue - well, that's not my experience. I'll have already forgotten the name by the time I click 'post comment', so she'll be back to 'yellow girl' after that.

If you cannot be bothered to remember Lae'zel's name, then you could just go with 'Gith girl' or some such as that is what she is, a Githyanki. Calling her the other label will only end poorly.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by War Maiden:

Firstly, yes a new look.

I am embracing my whole 'machina' title that a certain someone likes to call me, and the malfunctioning fembot, as another does, into a truly 'self-aware' Rogue AI labeled 'War Maiden'.

I changed her name to 'gith girl' there...

Well in retrospect, I kinda thought after you posted about the 'yellow girl' thing that hmm... Maybe you saw it as a 'slur'...

I see it more of a symptom of our crazy over-analytical times, because she is indeed yellow and we can't/won't constantly self-parse everything we say, in case it might come off as insensitive.

I'm not trying to be abrasive there btw. I'm just saying, if it was anyone else I might not be so 'accommodating'.

Also, many Asian women appear whiter to me than Caucasian women - very very pale complexion. I've worked with many Asian men too - extremely pale. I assume some are sallow-skinned based on region (aka 'yellow'), but that doesn't seem to be the standard...

Anyways, if we can move passed all those misconceptions etc, fembots sound great to me. Cyberpunk s**t. I'm all for it. Certainly if you've managed to arrive from the future where fembots are a thing, you have my utmost curiosity...

All that said, I do miss the original 'fembot' (Shodan aka Her Royal Shortness). Always had a few intelligent remarks/questions. A rare old thing on forums.

Hope I didn't scare her away with one of my drunken-ish comments! Poor girl...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Shove - It isn't necessarily that Shove itself is broken, but rather that nearly every encounter is designed to exploit in a way that often trivializes the content. What I mean by that, is that a 5-15 ft. (depending on Str) shove across flat ground rarely amounts to much (there were a few situations where I could do something with it, but generally all you're doing is wasting a bonus action as it does no damage). It's the cliffs, and the fact that Larian hasn't ironed out the physics quite right (I think they calculate shove trajectories based on the idea that if you're looking at the map top down it's all "flat", i.e. they're drawing a straight line from where the character gets shoved to where they land and then dropping them, they're not calculating any kind of complex physics for this...so in certain situations, a small shove can be magnified into something ridiculous). Furthermore, there are many 'pits' in the game (places where you can shove for instant death), and other places where the fall damage is so high it may as well be instant death. There is a little bit of a trade off, in that you will not be able to loot any bodies you shove into a pit (unless it's a pit that leads to another area, such as the one in the spider caverns). Anyway, this is any area that I think just needs better level design.

AoE Spells - Not currently working as described in the PHB for most of them. Moonbeam, for example, is not supposed to hit as much as it does.

This is the description for Moonbeam from the PHB:

When a creature enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it is engulfed in ghostly flames that cause searing pain, and it must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 2d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

So you can 'proc' it's damage more than once per round if you are able to control it's movement (such as with Thorn Whip or Thunderwave, or by using Shove), but no more than once per turn, and if it starts it's turn inside the Moonbeam. Basically, it cannot take this damage more than once per turn, at most. So Larian isn't coding this (and other) spells correctly. There are actually quite a few spells that are incorrect. People have been pointing this out to them since the beginning, so we'll see what they do about it.

Surprise - Surprise seems fine to me (it rewards those who set up ambushes, and punishes those who fail to scout ahead), but somehow it doesn't seem consistent. In that, from one encounter to another, whether I get a 'surprise round' when I attack from an ambush position (i.e. stealth) seems almost random. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I've seen times when the game even says the enemy is 'surprised' but they get a turn anyway. So, if anything, I'd like to see this mechanic become consistent and explained better (same with stealth btw, it can be all over the place).

Familiars - The problem with familiars (at least, Warlock's Pact of the Chain and Ranger's Beast Mastery), is that there is no cost. I think in TT it takes like an hour to summon a familiar, but BG3 has no clock and no timer, so you can just resummon it over and over. Also, the familiar is supposed to remain within 100 ft. of you in order to receive your telepathic commands (if it goes any farther, it cannot hear you, so you shouldn't be able to control it). To counteract this, Larian started making some enemies heal if they are out of combat for more than a round. This stops you from using your familiar to kill bosses because you used to be able to whittle them down with multiple summons, but now you have to kill them with a single summon or they heal back up to full hp. You can still exploit infinite familiars, but it's not as easy as before. For example, in the phase spider battle, you used to be able to send as many familiars as you wanted to to kill the matriarch - now, you can use them to kill the eggs and hatchlings, and maybe a full grown phase spider, but it's really hard to kill the matriarch with a single familiar because it will almost always get killed, and then the matriarch will heal to full health again before you can get the next familiar to her. It works, sort of. Like some other mechanics, it also doesn't seem consistent, as some enemies will heal and others will not.

Floor Based Puzzles - I'm not a huge fan of these myself, and like you point out, people who find them tedious or frustrating will just watch How To videos on YT. One thing I appreciate about them though is that Larian rarely only gives you a single way to solve it. The one in particular that you mention, the moon puzzle in the temple, doesn't have to be solved. For one, it's not the only entrance into the Undersnark. It's like one of three or four entrances, so you don't have to go that way in the first place. But even if you do, there's a lever near the puzzle (hidden by a passive Perception check) that you can then 'lockpick' to open a secret door in the wall (the same door that is opened by 'solving' the puzzle). It's skippable, with the right skills. And if you know about it, then you can save scum your way through it without ever touching the puzzle. Most 'puzzles' (and traps) in this game seem to work that way, so they don't overly bother me. A few that do, however, are one's where the trap is repeated many, many times over. Like the floor vents in the store room underneath the building where the fake paladin and his gang are hiding out. There's like a dozen of them, and Larian likes to reuse the same trap over and over (so many floor vents in this game). It gets really tedious. And they're not hard to disarm, it just takes forever because there's so many of them. And then there's the Guardian statues in the cave underneath the Emerald Grove. They usually get you once because you're not expecting them, and then never again. They're not interesting. A single ranged attack is enough to (slowly) destroy them. And then there's like five or six of them. Again, just horribly tedious and time consuming, I despise these things. Lastly, there's a walkway in Grymforge that, like the storeroom, just has a really long line of repeating traps. It gets old. Just let us disarm a trap and be done with it for that area. "FLOOR IS DANGER" is all too common a reoccurring theme in BG3 and it gets old. I've noticed that Larian has an issue when it comes to moderation - they like to spam the same thing in their game over and over and over again. Whether it's exploding barrels, exploding fire traps, or cliffs to push people off of (or get insane attack bonuses - I'm playing a Ranger with Archery fighting style, and attacking from stealth is sometimes 100% or 94%+ to hit). It's like everything in BG3 gets overused to the point of tedium. Unique traps feel cool. The falling boulder behind the gnoll cave, for example, was great because I hadn't seen something like that before in the game. I kind of feel like every single trap in the game needs to be hyper unique for it to have the impact they want it to, otherwise they all become tedious. I liked the 'undead trap' just before you go through the mirror to the necromancer's secret laboratory. That was unique.

Lastly, we've been yelling at Larian to re-design the character selection process since the beginning. They haven't said a word about it yet, so every now and then someone starts a new thread about it that goes for scores of pages before it gets locked or people just get bored of it. It's been a while since we've had one, maybe you should start a new one. It is one of the worst things about the game currently, and I think most people hate it. They added the 'group select' keybinding which helps a little bit (you can group/ungroup the entire party with a single key if you bind it, it's unbound by default), but I'd still like a proper selection drag tool like most RTS' use.

[War Maiden]

Originally posted by outofcontext:

I changed her name to 'gith girl' there...

Well in retrospect, I kinda thought after you posted about the 'yellow girl' thing that hmm... Maybe you saw it as a 'slur'...

I see it more of a symptom of our crazy over-analytical times, because she is indeed yellow and we can't/won't constantly self-parse everything we say, in case it might come off as insensitive.

I'm not trying to be abrasive there btw. I'm just saying, if it was anyone else I might not be so 'accommodating'.

At first I thought it to be but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and as an intelligent 'machina', ask you its meaning before I just 'assumed', as forethought seems to be a little practiced skill in many humans. Additionally, I thank you for your accommodation, as it serves you more than it does me.

Originally posted by outofcontext:

Also, many Asian women appear whiter to me than Caucasian women - very very pale complexion. I've worked with many Asian men too - extremely pale. I assume some are sallow-skinned based on region (aka 'yellow'), but that doesn't seem to be the standard...

You would be right in some aspects. Most Japanese women are truly quite pale. I am not of that lot because I chose the gyaru 'GAL' sub culture, but even then certain 'standards' keep me in check when it comes to my work. But yes, the typical Japanese female is pale skinned and where people ever got that they are 'sallow/yellow' is beyond me, the pigmentation hue is so minuscule it beggars belief, but people will come up with anything if they wish to hurt you.

Originally posted by outofcontext:

Anyways, if we can move passed all those misconceptions etc, fembots sound great to me. Cyberpunk s**t. I'm all for it. Certainly if you've managed to arrive from the future where fembots are a thing, you have my utmost curiosity...

All that said, I do miss the original 'fembot' (Shodan aka Her Royal Shortness). Always had a few intelligent remarks/questions. A rare old thing on forums.

Hope I didn't scare her away with one of my drunken-ish comments! Poor girl...

Well, I think Her Royal Shortness has gone onto 'bigger and better' horizons in terms of that. She is a 'God Queen' now, perhaps still resonating the 'Shodan' thing, I do not know. BUT! There is nothing worse than a Rogue AI running amok in ones system root sub-routines so we will see how the 'play' turns out. Cheers! / Kanpai! (cheers in Japanese)

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by War Maiden:

You would be right in some aspects. Most Japanese women are truly quite pale. I am not of that lot because I chose the gyaru 'GAL' sub culture, but even then certain 'standards' keep me in check when it comes to my work. But yes, the typical Japanese female is pale skinned and where people ever got that they are 'sallow/yellow' is beyond me, the pigmentation hue is so minuscule it beggars belief, but people will come up with anything if they wish to hurt you.

Kanpai indeed! I shall remember it!

Man, what a laugh. I don't even know what's going on here anymore.

Anyways, we all know (because of Cyberpunk 2077) that Asians are going to be the new superpower. But in reality, apparently the US military has stated China's AI capabilities are so evolved that they will leave everyone in the dust in but a decade...

No idea how Japanese view the Chinese, but it's all really interesting stuff to me...

This has been as wild as it gets. There's a story in all this (give me the mods to make a story Larian...).

Until then, reconfigure Her Royal Shortness's APIs so they point to steam network again - we all need a laugh haha! I'm sure she can easily bypass any trivial token/auth crap that steam throws at her - and perhaps even fully control steam itself???

Wouldn't surprise me...

Asians will surely inherit the earth - if giant Asian hornets don't inherit it before them, that is (f**king honey-bee killing b*****ds...

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

It's been a while since we've had one, maybe you should start a new one.

Haha! Well... I am running out of things to give out about. But not sure about the char creation thing. It does seem to be a 'sore topic' for some.

I don't know about it.

I read your full dialogue. Ok, so some rules are not implemented properly. But you didn't really explain how 'shove/wind/etc' can be balanced in a computer game format. I really think I have a point there with what I said.

And anyway, I want to mod this game and write a story for it when it's all done - for the fun of it.

I'm sick of coding the dross I do for a living. Oh yeah, paid through the teeth for it. But boring boring boring...

They hopefully will give us the 'tools'. Firebase/firestore/nodejs/reactnative anyone who's into their geekery? Gives you the power of a god, but still very tough on the old grey matter if you want to create a 'super-app'...

We should have a firebase/nodejs/reactnative 'toolkit' to make our game/narrative dreams come through.

Not for money. But for human creativity. I have so many ideas... I don't want cash for them - I do want the tools though...

We'll see...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

My answer to the shove exploits is that encounters can be designed so that shove can't be exploited as easily.

There's nothing wrong with shove (or Thunderwave, or Thunder Arrows, or Thorn Whip or Repelling Blast).

The problem is that the entire game world is designed around cliffs and pits. It's yet another example of Larian always going overboard on everything. If cliffs are an advantage, then every encounter has to be designed with them.

It's well known that in D&D fall damage is the deadliest thing in the entire game. So what does Larian do? They go and design levels around fall damage. It let's them include encounters that would normally be too hard for a typical party, because these 'exploits' that let you do tons of additional damage beyond your weapon (and cantrip) attacks can do, with little cost other than an action or bonus action.

So, the solution is to remove some of that. Remove the instant death pits. Remove the insane fall damage by reducing the amount of height in the game (or construct encounters in such a way that it's harder to get an enemy into position to exploit it - i.e. have enemies actively avoid cliff edges, just as a player would).

Larian's encounter design is sloppy. It's probably their weakest area. Swen seems to love over the top, Hollywood style stuff (in the real world, barrels of alcohol and oil aren't explosive unless they're under high pressure...they're barely flammable). Big explosions. Lots of fire. He throws too many tools at the player (right off the bat you have unfettered access to tons of grenades, special arrows, and all the insane combinations you can create with them).

Larian doesn't do subtle. They don't do nuanced. It's in your face, Michael Bay, gaudy explosions and over the top, overtuned encounter from the second the story starts (how the hell do you fight three cambions and a mind flayer at level 1, and not even with a full party?...with exploits, that's how...)?

Anyway, I'm starting to wander away from the original point.

Better level design. Better encounter design. That's how you 'fix' Shove, by making it harder to exploit it in the first place.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

So, the solution is to remove some of that. Remove the instant death pits. Remove the insane fall damage by reducing the amount of height in the game (or construct encounters in such a way that it's harder to get an enemy into position to exploit it - i.e. have enemies actively avoid cliff edges, just as a player would).

Yeah, but that's what I said...

It would be too much dev work to rework the cliffs etc. Plus, they look great when zooming around.

Battlewise, what I said was that if you fall off a cliff, you shouldn't 'die'. You just get some sort of penalty.

So all the cool cliff stuff remains, but shove/wind isn't insta-death.

I think it's the best solution. Just 'handicap' the player if they get pushed off a cliff. Ie - return them to the cliff edge after it happens, but penalise them for being thrown off the edge.

The cliffs look good, I wouldn't want them removed.

I think they can make it work, but BG3 mechanics are broken at the moment...

Though also 100 times better than WOTR. I see all these people calling WOTR the best s**t since sliced bread.

It only has 10k reviews on steam for a full launch game. BG3 has 40k reviews for EA... (If we're gonna go all-out ratio like most people seem to go with it on this...)

BG3 will annihilate WOTR. I read an article by some dude who went through every WOTR class. Yeah, there are tonnes of them, but as the dude exposed, most are pure crap. And they all copy skills from other classes.

The writing in WOTR is worse by far than BG3. Excruciatingly bad characters - the tediously naive witch girl, the cliche geek science girl, the cliche ditsy sexy girl, the blue guy that says 'chief' all the time, the Lann guy that's dumb as a plank...

Same enemy encounters over and over.

Say what you want about BG3, but they do try, and succeed, in making every encounter unique versus WOTR.

Plus WOTR assets are copy and pasted over and over and over. BG3 artwork is almost always unique, and I would say among the best I've ever seen in terms of effort.

They're only human at the end of the day. They will never meet everyone's expectations, but I do respect their effort and balls in taking on such a much-loved franchise (that they will never 'get right' in the eyes of the zealous - and I'm one of them).

I wish them the best of luck with it. And hopefully they do read all these criticisms - many have valid points...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Your "solution" is the most wishy-washy, hand waving, un-immersive solution possible.

Why would a character instantly teleport to the top of a cliff after falling off of it? That makes no sense. It's literally non-sense.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Ok, let's do a quick reality check. Arcane tower, only way in is to jump on top of various mushrooms outside the door. By 'jump', I mean essentially teleport, because no human can actually jump that far.

It's just another 'game mechanic'. How many things in this game universe make sense? Oh, you just got clobbered to death by an ogre? Ok, your brains are smashed in?

No problem, here's a 'helping hand' to get you back up again.

And magically you're back up again.

Or you actually got 'killed'. Except you're not really because you have a magic resurrection scroll! Wow, that'd be handy after I die of a cardiac arrest in reality. 'Heart's f**ked lads, anyone got a scroll on them?'

In BG3 they do.

Game mechanics. They should create balance. What I suggested creates balance - very clearly.

Everything is nonsense in this game - I already said that before I made the suggestion. Are you even playing the same game I am?

Balance over 'realism' in a game like this for sure.

If you're ever in doubt, just click the 'jump' button, position it in an impossible-to-jump-to area and watch your character jump right to it like they're jumping over a stick.

There is no realism or immersion in this completely nonsensical game.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Well, to be fair, the Help action doesn't sit right with me, nor do the Revivify scrolls. I've barely ever used them. I tend to reload instead. I have used Help action spam before (most recently in the nautiloid, as I was farming cambions for XP just to make the rest of the grind faster), but it doesn't feel good.

The jumping is slightly wonky, but I do believe jump distances are at least based on 5e rules. I mean, the way you can jump from a stand still looks weird. Like, it should require a bit of a run up, no? Regardless, it's consistent as far as I can tell. Consistent with 5e's rules.

What you're suggesting is essentially making cliffs into something they are not - instead of dying to fall damage, they're "out of bounds" style invisible walls that reset your character with a small penalty or something.

This is literally the worst "solution" I can imagine and would make the game worse in every way.

[Beta Ray Shill]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

This is literally the worst "solution" I can imagine and would make the game worse in every way.

It's a game. Mechanics > than reality.

What I suggested will balance the shove crap.

It's already ridiculous that you can 'help' downed allies after being blown up!

Worst solution me f**kin...

Game mechanics. They should just balance gameplay. If they don't logically make sense, it doesn't matter. You're thinking with the wrong side of the brain.

It doesn't matter anyway - I was contacted by a Larian rep 30min ago and they love my idea. They're going with it. So get used to it!

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Sure. Worst idea ever.