Too many damn traps [spoiler] Underdark Area [/spoiler]

[Valkyrie]

Seriously?????? Why the heck did you design a walkway in the underdark shar level that has the same 3 traps at every 10 feet. Have you ever played game of D&D? This is not how you use traps. Ah yes peak d&d is having your players tediously walk down this whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ walkway perceiving, disarming, and recasting guidance for the next hour.

No advantage/lower dc to perception for it being the same damn trap every 5 feet. No advantage/lower dc when disarming even though its the exact same trap every five feet. No taking 20.

"hundreds of the same trap over and over again, What a fun game play mechanic. I might add this to my table top game. My players would love it"- No DM ever

Just tedium and save scuming because none of your developers have ever dm'd before.

I dare you to play this level out in a tabletop game. Tell me how long it takes before your players decide to never play d&d again with you. Shame on you.

Every DM on the planet knows traps are basically worthless if you use more than a handful in a dungeon. You have to sparse them out, and only use them to create tension, to break up lulls in game play, and as a mechanic to suggest they better be on their toes for whats coming.

If you use traps early and often it completely ruins your players fun. They spend every five minutes doings perception checks and they refuse to explore. It turns players into a slow moving blob of boring that wont try new things and are suspicious of everything.

Its even worse in video game form because "that's obviously a trap, we went through this 10 times already" doesn't work in a video game. You just keep forcing your dumb passive perception checks and you keep forcing dc checks that are too high for a group that has disarmed that trap multiple times in the last 10 seconds.

For what little its worth, such horrendous DM'ing would never be welcome at my table.

-Update-
The trapped walkway in Grymforge leading up to philomeen is the offender I am referring to.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

You're right - there are several elements that get overused in this game, traps being one of them.

Also, explosive barrels, and 'burning' and fire in general. There's fire everywhere. Literally everywhere. Everything's on fire, all the time.

[Valkyrie]

I didnt even think about that. I noticed they have been everywhere. Even the nautiloid ship has them in the form of purple goop.

Explosive barrels/goop/mushrooms change the pass and theme of a fight. Once or twice you can use them for that sweet 1 shot kill moment but over saturation takes the cool factor away.

Things like abundant explosives, traps, and to an extent constant environmental hazard distract from core RPG moments.

For example, I have used grease and a firebolt in BG3 more times than I can count, but that's a tactic I have never done at a table. Heck I cant even think of a DM I've played with that would allow it. Nothing in 5e suggest grease is flammable and Jeremy crawford flat out said if it was suppose to be it would say so in the description. This game gives me grease bottles like ever 5 minutes.

The tools and mechanics favor environmental damage and stacking affects. It makes the fighter and rogue seem fairly boring by comparison, which is never an issue I have had in D&D before.

It really seems like the devs have never DM'ed a game before. The pacing is off, the time spent with things like traps and environmental hazards are way to high, perception isnt handled well, and things get repetitive and tedious quickly.

Its a shame because the story is pretty intriguing. The mechanics just are not meeting the mark.

[dolby]

That's the point of traps, it's exactly how they should use them! To slow you down into a blob... Problem right now is if you trigger a trap nothing happens at all!
Maybe you suffer some damage that you can just heal up with broken resting and there is no injury system so yeah just tedious clicking for nothing.

Purpose of traps is to slow down the enemy, trigger alarm, give Injury maybe kill a few and set the stage so a passing patrol defending the area can bring hell down from on high.

In short they just need fix the enimies so they respond to trap triggers.
Add patrolling enemies that have crossing paths that can reinforce each other and cover those traps...

Defend an area like a enemy would and not like a stupid AI that just stands there and waits to be kiled off one by one. That was ok 20 years ago.

But i guess if they did that, people would cry that the game is to hard.

[War Maiden]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

You're right - there are several elements that get overused in this game, traps being one of them.

Also, explosive barrels, and 'burning' and fire in general. There's fire everywhere. Literally everywhere. Everything's on fire, all the time.

Panda, they fixed that. They even adjusted Higher elevation.
You got what you wanted, and yet you are still crying. Why?

As for the OP.
Traps are traps. That is why you have the 'Perception skill'.
That is why some of your people 'could' have a light cantrip.
This is where cunning and intellect comes into place.
(Cunning and intellect being yours not theirs)

Use 'your' resources and your people's 'capabilities' to your advantage.
You cannot blame Larian for your own ineptitude.

Larian has a history of giving free reign, and also free creativity. Figure out a cool way to beat the enemy, they allow that. Figure our a cool strategy that isn't mods or 'cheese' as some like to call it, smart thinking. Think outside the box, and you will progress.

[Valkyrie]

Originally posted by War Maiden:

Use 'your' resources and your people's 'capabilities' to your advantage.
You cannot blame Larian for your own ineptitude.

I can absolutely blame them for poor dungeon design. They don't know how to use traps properly.

We have a long walk way that has the same trap over and over again. The game as designed doesn't take into account that if you have seen the same pressure plat 6 times in a row, the 7th one is going to be easier to spot. The DC's don't get lower with each identical trap.

If your perception check fails you can't interact with the object at all, and traps are immune to nearly all damage, these one specifically are immune to just about everything a level 4 party would have.

So what you end up with is a super tedious slog through an unimaginative walkway that has literally no purpose. These traps dont add anything. Patrols are not possible here because the whole point of this area is its a place the grey dwarves cant get to.

Its not a matter of ineptitude. The traps are there, they are seen, and they can be disarmed. They can't be attack as they are immune to nearly all damage types. Its absolutely dumb that they are even here like this when 1 or 2 traps at the start and end of the walkway would have achieved the same function without the tedium. But instead we have to slowly move down and disarm 30 times in a row.

Its is not fun, it requires absolutely no skills, it is not creative, it adds nothing to the game play, it ruins the pacing of this particular section of the game, and most importantly it suggest the developers lack an understanding of the nuances of D&D in general.

Meaningful trap placement is a common discussion point between DM's. Literally every D&D reddit, every forum, heck even the official modules discuss how and when to use traps. The consensus is always use them sparsely, use them wisely. Larian failed on both counts.

Go stan for Larain somewhere else.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Valkyrie:

Its not a matter of ineptitude. The traps are there, they are seen, and they can be disarmed. They can't be attack as they are immune to nearly all damage types. Its absolutely dumb

well, i agree about this if you can see the trap and spot it you should be able to destroy it if nothing else trigger it remotely. The other option should be to disarm them with a small chance to collect it for yourself and use it later.

[Valkyrie]

Being able to attack them when you see them would be a nice solution. Infact given that this section in particular uses the same pressure plate 6 times in a row, even if the character doesn't perceive all of them, attack them should still be an option.

If i put 6 tiles front of you and said the first ones trapped, the second ones trapped, then stpped saying anything, it would be reasonable to assume the rest were as well and act as though they were even if you didn't specifically know.

This happens all the time, if a player sets of a trap off they often immediately distrusts all future tiles that look like that, even going so far as to shot them with arrows or drop rocks on tiles that are not even trapped. Its just how a logical person would respond.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I agree with OP - far too many traps on the ground seem like they're placed there just to make you walk slower and savescum more.

[Valkyrie]

In the dank crypt area there's another example of confusing trap use. The heads that shoot fire, the grates that spew gas, and even the button can all be disarmed, but the sarcophagus which is the actual trigger for the trap cant be disarmed or attacked, if fact it doesn't even trigger a perception check.

So from a game play perspective you have to perceive then disarm each head and gas vent separately to complete the room without triggering a trap. Just another example of trap tedium. The statue heads and grates in this case can be damaged but given you are level 1 when they are encountered, it takes a while to do it. So that option is also tedious.

Sure I could just set it off and run to the button real quick but why? What if I don't perceive the button? Are there really no other options? Why does it have to be so tedious? What is the point of this trap? What does this trap design achieve? Why cant the lid just be a trigger to a trap that harms the opener. Why does this trap require so many components?

If you want the player to question stealing from the dead, why not have the damn cleric comment "we should not steal from the dead"

If the goal is to hold the player up, why don't any NPC's react to this trap going off?

If the goal is to cause damage, why do the trap continue nonstop until the button is pressed?

If the the goal is to create a hazardous environment for the players to creatively resolve, Why is the button so close to the sarcophagus and why is it possible to press the button on the same turn the trap activates?

If the goal is trying to create tension to suggest the dungeon is dangerous, why is this at the end? If you started here, why is there no other traps anywhere else in the dungeon?

This whole trap is needlessly complex and causes more questions than anything. A simple, lift lid and spike shoot out trap would have achieved the same affect without plotholes.

Hell, the trap should have been a fight. Open lid and undead pop out of all 5 sarcophagus. That would have been better trap. Disarming would not have worked, you would have had to use a spell to disarm it because it would be a magical trap. Arcane check would be needed to spot that it was trapped, and the resolution would be a fight that took a few turns to complete. Like even new DM's would have put more thought into this.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Another bad one is the guardian statues in the cave underneath the grove.

The first time you trigger it it's just a "gotcha!", but after that it's just tedium as you plunk away at them for ten minutes with an xbow.

[Valkyrie]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Another bad one is the guardian statues in the cave underneath the grove.

The first time you trigger it it's just a "gotcha!", but after that it's just tedium as you plunk away at them for ten minutes with an xbow.

This!

In addition to the tedium; Larian has on mulitple occasion claimed they want to make the game with replayability in mind. Traps as a gameplay function inherently are not replayable. Combat and dialogue is replable as you may come with different characters and skills. Traps however and just traps. Once you have set them off they are setoff. Their magic is gone. Whatever they did for the story has been done. In every future replay you will know that trap is their and you will know how to defeat/avoid it.

If the goal is replayablity, traps should be used in a very different context. Specifically scripted as a result of branching choices and not just placed in a spot.

A great example of this is the traps next to the net that leads up to the Zhentarim secret storage. The first time you set them off and burn the net, that has an impact on the story, you now have to enter that area from the elevator. But now in every future playthrough you know you can just go to the underdark with a high wisdom character and avoid the elevator altogether.

Meanwhile if their was just 1 guard at the top of the net, instead of traps, you could have a dialogue solutions (pursuasion or deceptions), you could try distracting and sneaking, you could fight them, you could bribe them, you could charm them, scare them, at later levels you could polymorph them, the list goes on an on.

The trap in this instance specifically defeats the intentions of the developer.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Valkyrie:

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Another bad one is the guardian statues in the cave underneath the grove.

The first time you trigger it it's just a "gotcha!", but after that it's just tedium as you plunk away at them for ten minutes with an xbow.

This!

yeah this one was mentioned multiple times over last year and yes it's just busywork sadly.
we posted suggestions on how to improve it as well...

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

In addition to the tedium; Larian has on mulitple occasion claimed they want to make the game with replayability in mind. Traps as a gameplay function inherently are not replayable. Combat and dialogue is replable as you may come with different characters and skills. Traps however and just traps. Once you have set them off they are setoff. Their magic is gone. Whatever they did for the story has been done. In every future replay you will know that trap is their and you will know how to defeat/avoid it.

If the goal is replayablity, traps should be used in a very different context. Specifically scripted as a result of branching choices and not just placed in a spot.

well, they could use both static and scripted. Those would be cool indeed. but it's kinda unrealistic to have all traps be scripted i guess to much work...

The second option could be those patrols i mentioned before, They could just drop traps at random in the patrol zone...

[Valkyrie]

Patrols work in most cases, the grymforge one couldn't have patrols because the area is not accessabie to them. the Dank crypt and zhentarim areas absolutely should have enemy's that get alerted.

[Core]

I agree, the traps are way too high in number. Maybe repercussions could be elevated instead of placing dozens of them.

[Krys Runsonlattes]

I have spent the last 4 hours trying to get down that walk way... because I came at it from the trapped direction and I can't reach the gate with the gargoyle at the other end. That trap hits you hard enough to blast you off the walkway, and if that isn't bad enough, even if you just jump a trap you didn't "see" after 4 hours of getting to the other end of the freaking tunnel... your idiot companions will always decide to backtrack and set off the trap you skipped. There is no lever for me, not only do I have to succeed in disarming traps, I have to do it MULTIPLE times on the SAME trap on one go. One took *3* disarms before it actually worked, and I was doubling some of the skill checks.

I can honestly say, I may never play this game again. Which is sad, I like to run every character through as much as possible when I buy a game. This one may be my bards last stanza.