Feedback on barrels, story, and consistency

[Glaucidium]

Played through the EA and generally enjoyed the story and combat despite being an unfinished product. Lots of areas for feedback, but I thought I would deep dive on oil barrels and the story/consistency of their implementation since I see lots of other posts focused on their role in combat.

Barrel Fun Facts:
1. There are water, fish, fire wine, smoke powder, oil, and wooden barrels (the last kind you can open and find/place items).

2. The barrels all weigh 10kg (empty barrel weighs the same as a full barrel).

3. You can explode and cause fire by hitting fire wine, smoke powder, and oil barrel. You can spread around fire wine (and oil?) just by hitting them without fire.

Story:
1. I don't get the sense that the story team and barrel team have talked.

2. Why are there so many oil barrels everywhere?

3. More specifically, what is the story or setting explanation for this all these barrels? Right now I have no idea what type of oil is in the barrels (crude oil, whale oil) or what on earth the NPCs are using the oil for. Because of the high number of barrels, and their over-the-top potential for use in combat, they stick out like sore thumb in the story/environment. I am left wonder if this part of bigger story element like the iron shortage (oil barrel glut?) from BG1.

4. Small changes would help this. For example, when you examine the barrel it would be nice if it explained the type of oil and/or hinted at it's possible use. Is this crude oil mined from a near surface source, whale oil for lamps (which appear rare in act I), or some other oil with some other purpose? Right now all I know is that NPCs store oil in barrels to blow up in combat. An RPG (i.e. not DOOM from 1994) is where a little writing can make 'rules as fun' (blowing up barrels) fit better with the story/setting.

Consistency:
1. An empty wooden barrel should not weigh the same as a barrel full of wine or fish etc.

2. I would take consistency a step further and suggest the weights should either be closer to real world weights and/or the implementation of DnDs encumbrance system should be modded to limit how many barrels you can carry. You can't make the weights too close to real world if you want players to be able to carry them around though*.

3. Personal bias: As someone who carries a 60L plastic barrel with supplies on his back while portaging a canoe, I struggle with the idea of my characters hauling even these empty wooden barrels (or chests etc.) around. DnD has a magic item that solves this problem, but right now in EA there is basic zero value in acquiring a bag of holding because you can carry so much gak by weight and there is no consideration to the size/awkwardness of the items. I'd rather that some items auto-encumbered your character if they were carried regardless of weight (like barrels of wine, chests), and/or thresholds were reached (like carrying 10 martials would auto-encumber you).

4. I think this is part of a more general problem with how the inventory/encumbrance system is implemented which ties back into the story/setting and immersion in the world. For example, why do you need a caravan of carts/horses to transport a bunch chests, crates, barrels? My characters can literally carry everything in the caravan. Where is my dialogue option to have Gale trash talk all these weak choir boys using horses and carts?


*Weight & Dimensions of a Wine Barrel
Capacity Standard Bordeaux Chateau 225L (60 US Gallons)
Typical Length 95 cm (37.4 inches)
Head Diameter 56 cm (22 inches)
Common Wood Thickness 27 mm (2 inch)
Number of Hoops 6 or 8
Bung Hole Diameter 50 mm (2 inches)
Typical Barrel Weight 50 kg (110 pounds)
Total Weight when Full 275 kg (600 pounds)

Other:
a) smoke powder barrels shouldn't leak oil
b) barrels of oil/wine should really only explode if something big ignites them all at once, otherwise they should just burn imo.
c) I used an oil boil once maybe twice in combat because an NPC was standing right beside it. I am not a practicing barrelmancer, but hat tip to those that choose that path.
d) If the design team could add in barrels of different sizes with different weights/volumes (i.e. explicitly smaller ones) you could reduce some of their over the top potency (smaller damage and AoE) for combat too.

[Tenebrae]

Originally posted by Glaucidium:

1. I don't get the sense that the story team and barrel team have talked.

This one cracked me up.

[LeftPaw]

When ever I see a barrel I am reminded of Larian, It needs to be their logo. They are flippigng barrel mad.
You now see a map filled with barrels and know this is going to be s***.

[Core]

Barrels are ridicilous. I really hate that. Why are so many explosives laying around everywhere in a FRP game, I do not even want to know. But then again... I asked for a refund already, so meh

[Camjuan™]

Barrels add a ton of fun to and offer alternative routes in gameplay. If these were to weigh 110lb then players would be forced to spend hours on inventory management. Anyone who claims PHB DnD has a good balanced is delusional.

[Camjuan™]

Originally posted by pandariuskairos:

Originally posted by Camjuan™:

If these were to weigh 110lb then players would be forced to spend hours on inventory management.

Good. If you really want to blow the entire game up then it should require that kind of commitment.

Barrelmancy is a meme, not a strategy.

This only goes to proves you don't have the slightest idea of how the BG3 campaign plays, or how to balance a video game,

[Glaucidium]

To clarify my original long post, I don't think DND PHB 5e (or any edition) is perfectly balanced, nor do I think any video game adaptation is, or will be. The bigger the audience, the more difficult it must be to find an acceptable balance. Regardless, my feedback is less about balance regarding combat and more about balance for incorporating the prolific barrels better in the story/setting. Right now it feels gimicky like an FPS game from the 90's, and not a well thought addition to the setting. At least there weren't exploding barrels on the mind flayer ship...

If there were a better explanation for why there were so many barrels then they would fit with the game better. Players can largely then decide if/how they want to use them (choice is a good thing). I'm really not worried about fringe cases of people spending hours moving barrels or objects around to thunderwave at opponents. It's more the basic setting and what I view as their overabundance coupled with their ease of use in general that is off putting.

I also don't think it's desirable to make, or try to make, any game 100% aligned with the real world for things like the weight of objects (it's a fools errand imo). I do however think it's helpful when world building to "ground-truth" the setting you're creating versus reality and keep in game consistency in mind (full barrels weigh the same as empty?).

I think the encumbrance rules are very generous in 5e and rely on the DM and players at the table to decide what would seem ridiculous or not. If Larian is the DM, they need to listen to a much bigger and more diverse community than any table top. I hope the community errs on reducing barrelmancy and asks the DM to explain or at least hint at why there is so much explosive stuff everywhere. Since it's a video game they can easily code in complexity behind the scenes that 5e avoids as long as it doesn't create a rats nest for the player to figure out how to use. For example, they could hard code items that would be too bulky to carry or limit how many can be carried at once regardless of weight. This would be, and honestly should be, intuitive to players for the objects. Who would be surprised that your character, regardless of strength, couldn't carry around a bunch huge chests and barrels (sans a bag of holding)? Eventually there is going to be a bag of holding and currently it will be the most useless iconic magic item ever.

For the record, I am not 100% against using oil barrels in room to blow goblins up or tipping over an oil barrel to create a flammable surface. It just feels like too much in EA. I could even totally see Ogres that are large creatures with 19 strength, say three of them who want to eat you, easily carrying and throwing barrels (and chests etc.) at players. Getting hammered with 50lb barrel or 110lbs barrel should be pretty devasting to low level characters (unless you're Halsin the tank). I can also see players carrying smaller barrels or pushing/tipping barrels for use in combat depending on size and strength of the character and the size/weight of the barrel.

End of the day, a little writing, tweaking to the mechanics, and generally toning down the barrels would go a long way for a better fit and feel for me.