Combat ruins this game

[Snobgoblin]

As I feared, the turn based combat is just way too slow and makes the game feel like anything but a sequal to the original BG games. I hope they add other options, I don't think I can bear going through more of it until they do. :(

[Pipinpadaloxicopolis]

Rebecca の投稿を引用：

Doomguy の投稿を引用：

the more people play it the more they realise that this is exactly their problem.
Combat is slow and boring. RT would have been the right thing to go with. They pretty much made a huge mistaken. But sometims you need to make mistakes to learn from them

I agree.
As a sidenote: Too bad immature profiles hat to derail that 900 posts RT/TB discussion thread and get it locked from a moderator. At least they banned one of the perpetrators.

Let's have an open and respectful discussion here. Its ok if you dont agree, you can always agree to disagree.

And remember: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me2:

a discussion would be nice, lol.

i will say both tb and rtwp are good but good for different things.
I really think TB is amazing for hard fights (boss fights, mini bosses, etc.) but really really drags in the easy fights. running easy missions in xcom is a drag but can get super fun and tense when a chosen shows up. i think its causing Larian to make every fight a "challenge" and thats kinda lame tbh. when fighting a group of 4 goblins becomes just as difficult as fighting a group of fallen paladins or a hag then it sorta looses something for me.

its opposite for rtwp. in bg1 having to fight a group of xvarts is easy pz no problem and fast. get that little combat out of the way. but when it comes to fighting something like Kangaxx or the Demogorgont in bg2 i find myself mashing spacebar more than letting the game play out. TB those fights would be WAY more enjoyable.

TBH pathfinder kingmaker when they introduced the turn based system and nailed it. you can turn it off and on, and get the best of both worlds.

its larians game tho, and i dont hate the TB all the time, just hope they speed up and tone down some of the fights cuz the easy fights shouldnt be a chore.

[zenebatos1]

I feel like people had it too easy for the last or so decade of gaming, that whenever a fight takes more than 3 minutes they "can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Even"...

[Pipinpadaloxicopolis]

zenebatos1 の投稿を引用：

I feel like people had it too easy for the last or so decade of gaming, that whenever a fight takes more than 3 minutes they "can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Even"...

i think it depends on what kind of combat. boss should take 5+ minutes. pack of random wolves not so much.

[Brady4444]

I enjoy taking a moment to deliberate on the next move. Also, it's nice to be able to step away for a moment and make a sandwich. If I forgot to pause it, no big deal.

[zenebatos1]

Pipinpadaloxicopolis の投稿を引用：

zenebatos1 の投稿を引用：

I feel like people had it too easy for the last or so decade of gaming, that whenever a fight takes more than 3 minutes they "can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Even"...

i think it depends on what kind of combat. boss should take 5+ minutes. pack of random wolves not so much.

If it takes you more than 3 minutes to dispatch a pack of small fries in this game, then there is somethign really wrong with your tactics honestly.( and there is not even any need to cheese it)

The only fights that took more than 3 minutes, where because there was like 10 participants on a huge map, so yeha it took like 6 minutes...

And thats with a party of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Coop that where more doing ♥♥♥♥ for the giggles than actually paying attention...

[Pipinpadaloxicopolis]

zenebatos1 の投稿を引用：

Pipinpadaloxicopolis の投稿を引用：

i think it depends on what kind of combat. boss should take 5+ minutes. pack of random wolves not so much.

If it takes you more than 3 minutes to dispatch a pack of small fries in this game, then there is somethign really wrong with your tactics honestly.( and there is not even any need to cheese it)

The only fights that took more than 3 minutes, where because there was like 10 participants on a huge map, so yeha it took like 6 minutes...

And thats with a party of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Coop that where more doing ♥♥♥♥ for the giggles than actually paying attention...

didnt say it took 3 minutes to kill a pack of small fries, said it shouldnt take as long to fight them as what should be a much harder fight. YET i spent just about the same amount time fighting say... the 3 ogres with the int crown as i did fighting the 5~ goblins on the bridge after the first town. dont have that problem with rtwp.
also generally in a turn economy game the more people you have on a given side gives the larger advantage so 10v4 SHOULD be a much faster/easier fight than a 4v4(CR~ being similar between them) as you dont have to do multiple rounds but thats a whole nother discussion and not one i care to get into.
my original point is that, besides some clear exceptions, all the fights are equal in terms of time spent in them but not difficulty spent doing them.

as an example in a rl game of dnd, if im DMing, im not going to bother having my level 4 party of 4 roll initiative to kill a group of 4 goblins. theres no point. all it would do is slow the game down. BG3 however says "well actually rather than those goblins having 7hp(bog standard 5e goblin) we'll give them all 10+ hp and special attacks, and potions worth multiple gold, and spells, and higher saves and and... dont want to say a dm will never change the numbers (cuz they should to keep it interesting). but when ALL the fights are like that it just becomes a drag, specially when you have to go through the turn system with slow AI and stuff.

Edit: probably not saying this right

[Elminster]

surreptitious の投稿を引用：

The Jump - barrel - ground effect - dipping weapons - candles it's all crap!
and if it is all part of 5e then 5e is crap.

It’s all house rules. Removing them would solve 90% of balancing problems.

[Elminster]

zenebatos1 の投稿を引用：

Pipinpadaloxicopolis の投稿を引用：

i think it depends on what kind of combat. boss should take 5+ minutes. pack of random wolves not so much.

If it takes you more than 3 minutes to dispatch a pack of small fries in this game, then there is somethign really wrong with your tactics honestly.( and there is not even any need to cheese it)

The only fights that took more than 3 minutes, where because there was like 10 participants on a huge map, so yeha it took like 6 minutes...

And thats with a party of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Coop that where more doing ♥♥♥♥ for the giggles than actually paying attention...

Sometimes it takes 3 minutes to wait for your turn.
The goblin fight at the gate takes easily 5-10 minutes depending on rolls.

This is way to slow paced for me.

But hey to each his own...

[Blue]

I absolutely love this conspiracy that a bunch of people hated the game and left. Because a few butthurt pen and paper bois (If you are a PnP boi and not butt hurt this isnt about you) got upset.

If the game isn't to your liking. You can just.. not play it or refund it lmao.

I think its great. I love it.

[zenebatos1]

Elminster の投稿を引用：

Sometimes it takes 3 minutes to wait for your turn.

Thats a bug cause the AI is stumbling on something during the decision makings and takes longer

Its not like its a default setting of the game and thats not how it should be.

Personaly i had it happens 2 times, and it was in an area with a lot of clutter and things going on at the same time in the Blighted village.

It was also an issue back in DOSII EA that they resolved before the games release.

[zenebatos1]

Rebecca の投稿を引用：

I hate to do that by there are so many tiny game design flaws I encounter every time I start the game and continue my playthrough.
Vendor system for selling stuff is so obsolete and annoying. Have to click multiple times every single time. Could be made much easier and faster if they changed it.

The distance you can fly with your camera away from your chars is limited. its annoying when I want to go to a far distant location and click a "move" command. I cant, I have to scroll, wait, click, scroll, wait, click. Maybe there is an option for that but idk.

Honestly, if I could still refund this game at this point, I would. Just to buy it later when its on discount.

Discounts doesn't happen after a long while, new games are never or rarely on discount and you'll get 5%...

Is it so hard to simply wait?...its like none of you have any patience or Anything else to do...

[Elminster]

zenebatos1 の投稿を引用：

Elminster の投稿を引用：

Sometimes it takes 3 minutes to wait for your turn.

Thats a bug cause the AI is stumbling on something during the decision makings and takes longer

Its not like its a default setting of the game and thats not how it should be.

Personaly i had it happens 2 times, and it was in an area with a lot of clutter and things going on at the same time in the Blighted village.

It was also an issue back in DOSII EA that they resolved before the games release.

In my roughly 80hours of playing I had that about a dozen times. I get is ea and it will be fixed, but even without the bug, a fight with 4-6 opponents i.e. a total of 8-10 characters takes 1-2 minutes per round and easily extend to 3-4 rounds making it way too long for people used to RTwP. This kind of encounters used to take 20 seconds to resolve and we could go on with the interesting part of the game.

Now boss fight could take 3-4 hours to figure out sometimes. But that was engaging. Clicking through the same attack button 4 times each round and then waiting for the AI to move is just repetitive and utterly boring for me.

[Brady4444]

One of the annoying facts about some of the combats is that the game knows where to stand to give it the best mechanical advantage, or give the players disadvantage (or both).

It seems very difficult to remove advantage from a target in some cases. It also seems very difficult to remove disadvantage even when the party has the high ground at range.

The advantage/disadvantage needs to be tuned. Right now, it seems enemies have 'advantage' and pc's have disadvantage in most every fight. All you can hope is that you can gain advantage to cancel the effects of being at disadvantage.

That said, this game is really fun even if it's a bit frustrating when you have to save scum for a few minutes on some of the dialogue rolls.

[Blue]

Brady4444 の投稿を引用：

One of the annoying facts about some of the combats is that the game knows where to stand to give it the best mechanical advantage, or give the players disadvantage (or both).

It seems very difficult to remove advantage from a target in some cases. It also seems very difficult to remove disadvantage even when the party has the high ground at range.

The advantage/disadvantage needs to be tuned. Right now, it seems enemies have 'advantage' and pc's have disadvantage in most every fight. All you can hope is that you can gain advantage to cancel the effects of being at disadvantage.

That said, this game is really fun even if it's a bit frustrating when you have to save scum for a few minutes on some of the dialogue rolls.

People are doing solo runs of the entire early access. If they can do that, surely you can come up with something to even out the odds for yourself lmao

[Elminster]

Tofu の投稿を引用：

Brady4444 の投稿を引用：

One of the annoying facts about some of the combats is that the game knows where to stand to give it the best mechanical advantage, or give the players disadvantage (or both).

It seems very difficult to remove advantage from a target in some cases. It also seems very difficult to remove disadvantage even when the party has the high ground at range.

The advantage/disadvantage needs to be tuned. Right now, it seems enemies have 'advantage' and pc's have disadvantage in most every fight. All you can hope is that you can gain advantage to cancel the effects of being at disadvantage.

That said, this game is really fun even if it's a bit frustrating when you have to save scum for a few minutes on some of the dialogue rolls.

People are doing solo runs of the entire early access. If they can do that, surely you can come up with something to even out the odds for yourself lmao

But you see this IS the problem, lets forget about RTwP for a second and focus on the turn based implementation.

The game pushes you to use certain environment mechanics and disregards your class and build inherent strength, because the environment mechanics overshadow everything else.

The moment that you understand how the game works it becomes a boring repetition of the same tactics at every fight, hide get to high ground, attack from out of range, re-hide, create an hazard surface between you and the monster, destroy stairs so they have to go the long way, push them back down when they reach you... rinse and repeat. how utterly boring.