How do you stop the turn based combat from screwing up with in-stealth players?

[Jacmac]

When I get into combat and some of my characters are in stealth, the game skips past them like they don't have any turn? How can I turn that effect off, permanently? It's stupid, it makes no sense. Even if I start turn based mode outside of combat, it still skips them once combat begins. Which means I have to reload the game, again.

[Estevan Valladares]

That is one of the most powerful features of the game to people who actually know how to play the game. By having a character in stealth while you start combat, you can simply determine how your characters join combat instead of relying solely in initiative.

You can instead of barging like a stupid grunt full group into combat, go character by character insuring that your character are the first to attack. If you are using the difficult that does not allow it, you still entitled to AoE effect from character out of combat.

Many fights can be finished without an enemy making a single attack because you are not dumb.

Alas, as I always say:
"You are free to roleplay a stupid character, but you should not expect to be rewarded for it."

[harken23]

When combat starts, select the character(s) that is(are) not in combat. The combat part will freeze until the character you're controlling enters the fray (or you pick somebody who is already fighting). So you can sneak up on an enemy that's engaged in combat and backstab them, or fire arrows or something. You will get your action and then roll initiative and slot in to the TB combat accordingly.

[harken23]

Originally posted by Estevan Valladares:

Alas, as I always say:
"You are free to roleplay a stupid character, but you should not expect to be rewarded for it."

If I'm DMing and someone wants to play a stupid character, I would absolutely give them extra EXP for role-playing a stupid character well.

[Ylion]

Select the character in question and perform an action with it.
That´s it.

[Jacmac]

Originally posted by Ylion:

Select the character in question and perform an action with it.
That´s it.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem this simple. Like the character I initially attack with is in combat and all of the enemies begin attacking it after he attacks. I go to select another chracter and the game just continues with the enemies attacking the unstealthed character and keeps rolling stealth checks over and over. It feels like the unstealthed character goes through 2-3 rounds of combat before I can get my other characters in the fight. It isn't obvious what is going on. If I try to select another character, there is a finger above the end turn saying it is someone elses turn. So I go to that character and end turn, then the enemies all get another round of combat. It mind bogglingly bad combat design when you enter combat in turn mode, plan an attack, then the whole thing falls apart because you can't force each character to have a turn or attack on the same turn, or in between the enemy turns, it keeps going with the stealh checks instead of just giving me control.

It so confusing that it isn't worth it to me to use stealth because the UI mechanics make it hard to understand. Why does each character doesn't get an option to exit stealth and attack between each enemy move? Like I would rather it cycle between each character and ask every single move if that character wanted to exit stealth and attack. Instead it just rushes and the enemies get in like 7 or 8 attacks between all of them, and I just end up reloading the game.

[hermit0wl]

Originally posted by Jacmac:

Originally posted by Ylion:

Select the character in question and perform an action with it.
That´s it.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem this simple. Like the character I initially attack with is in combat and all of the enemies begin attacking it after he attacks. I go to select another chracter and the game just continues with the enemies attacking the unstealthed character and keeps rolling stealth checks over and over. It feels like the unstealthed character goes through 2-3 rounds of combat before I can get my other characters in the fight. It isn't obvious what is going on. If I try to select another character, there is a finger above the end turn saying it is someone elses turn. So I go to that character and end turn, then the enemies all get another round of combat. It mind bogglingly bad combat design when you enter combat in turn mode, plan an attack, then the whole thing falls apart because you can't force each character to have a turn or attack on the same turn, or in between the enemy turns, it keeps going with the stealh checks instead of just giving me control.

It so confusing that it isn't worth it to me to use stealth because the UI mechanics make it hard to understand. Why does each character doesn't get an option to exit stealth and attack between each enemy move? Like I would rather it cycle between each character and ask every single move if that character wanted to exit stealth and attack. Instead it just rushes and the enemies get in like 7 or 8 attacks between all of them, and I just end up reloading the game.

When one of your characters enters combat, if the enemies have higher intiative, they'll get to attack first. When it's your turn in the initiative, you can switch to a stealthed character who isn't in combat, and out of turn-based mode move them wherever you want (as long as they don't get spotted) and attack - at which point that character will enter combat and roll initiative.
You might want to start fights with a character who has good DEX/bonus to initiative, so you don't get a bunch of enemies going first. Starting combat by attacking from stealth can also make the enemies Surprised, meaning they won't be able to act on their first turn.

[alanc9]

And if you keep ending the unstealthed character's turn, of course that gives the enemies another round.

[Damedius]

The real problem is that it often knocks them out of turn base mode. So if you set up your characters with buffs prior to combat, rounds continue even if you do nothing with the character that is in combat.

I'm not sure if it's a bug or working as intended but it's annoying.

[cirugo]

you have to manually select the characters that are still stealthed or it won't count them in the turns. Once they've entered combat it will proceed as normal. You can see by their icons whether they're in combat or not. A crossed-sword icon will be by all the characters in combat.

[RoboSauce]

Yeah its bad- a better system would've been to have the player's party all roll for initiative, then have a ready attack or delay mechanic so they can move around in initiative if they want to- or they can simply move and stay hidden on their turn. Then there isn't this weird hybrid real time and turn based thing happening. The fact that when an outside PC enters combat they roll for initiative anyways makes me think "normal" CRPG mechanics make way more sense. Sadly, on this forum OP won't find many people agreeing, a more generic CRPG forum will have better conversations because other games have figured it out. Don't get me started on the awful chain party management which makes all of this even more of a headache.

[harken23]

No combat will take place that you don't know about. If you leave TB mode with your stealthed character, they can move around for as long as you want, until they take an aggressive action or are spotted. So even after your front line is engaged, you can try to sneak your rogue around back for some flanking. If you don't get spotted, it's pretty deadly.

[alanc9]

Well, the problem is that most of us have found a way to exploit it. All the boss kills at a certain event revolve around this mechanic, for instance. So saying it's a problem is a hard sell.

I wouldn't mind dropping everyone into initiative order the moment combat starts , but that's because I don't like that exploit .

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by Jacmac:

Originally posted by Ylion:

Select the character in question and perform an action with it.
That´s it.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem this simple. Like the character I initially attack with is in combat and all of the enemies begin attacking it after he attacks. I go to select another chracter and the game just continues with the enemies attacking the unstealthed character and keeps rolling stealth checks over and over. It feels like the unstealthed character goes through 2-3 rounds of combat before I can get my other characters in the fight. It isn't obvious what is going on. If I try to select another character, there is a finger above the end turn saying it is someone elses turn. So I go to that character and end turn, then the enemies all get another round of combat. It mind bogglingly bad combat design when you enter combat in turn mode, plan an attack, then the whole thing falls apart because you can't force each character to have a turn or attack on the same turn, or in between the enemy turns, it keeps going with the stealh checks instead of just giving me control.

It so confusing that it isn't worth it to me to use stealth because the UI mechanics make it hard to understand. Why does each character doesn't get an option to exit stealth and attack between each enemy move? Like I would rather it cycle between each character and ask every single move if that character wanted to exit stealth and attack. Instead it just rushes and the enemies get in like 7 or 8 attacks between all of them, and I just end up reloading the game.

Combat will only continue if your player IN combat has taken there turn, is incapacitated or dead (obviously). If you know how to use this mechanic it is quite powerful.

If your not sure what to do or until you get the hang of how the turn base round works, when you select your "stealthed" party member click them into TB mode.

Now if that character has low initiative or loses initiative when he attacks, moves into line of sight he will only get 1 action until there turn in initiative hits

try it leaving your party behind. practice attacking at range and immediately back off when enemies come to "investigate". Its like your playing a different game that's suddenly NOT TB

[TheMasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Jacmac:

When I get into combat and some of my characters are in stealth, the game skips past them like they don't have any turn? How can I turn that effect off, permanently? It's stupid, it makes no sense. Even if I start turn based mode outside of combat, it still skips them once combat begins. Which means I have to reload the game, again.

It's not screwing up, you just don't understand the mechanic, which actually works strongly in your favor if you use it right.

typically, initiative is only rolled for characters when they start or join in combat. Your stealthed characters don't roll for initiative until they take an offensive Action/Bonus Action. To do this, you need to select those stealthed characters when the initiative tracker is on your active character already in combat.

So, therefor, this tactic works great with a high initiative character (preferably one with the Alert feat and a high DEX bonus), to make your first attack while the rest of your party is stealthed.

However, if you're using a low initiative character to start combat and the enemies roll higher initiative, then yeah, they're going to focus fire your active character until the initiative tracker moves down the line to your active character - thus finally allowing you a chance to activate your stealthed characters. Not a great plan.

[Lisan al Gaib]

I don't think OP understands this mechanic.

Just enter combat, let the initiative rolls play out and then one-by-one enter your stealthed party members into combat. That's it. Simple. All you have to do do is not end the turn of the first character in combat, and then go down the line from there.