Help. Why does each spell have a different (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value?

[Gladiator]

Here are the condition:
1. Im playing with Shadow Heart
2. Im only single class Cleric not multi class so my primary attribute is "Wisdom"
3. My wisdom is 19, intelligence at 8, charisma at 8, strength 15, dexterity 8, const 17

In-game description shows that my spell difficulty class is 16 when im casting "Bless" but my spell difficulty class is 11 when im casting "Bane".

Q1. Why is (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value not the same with all spells? Doesn't all spell use the primary attribute to determine spell difficulty class ? Shadow hearts (Cleric Class) primary attribute is "Wisdom".
Q2. Is you chance to hit with a spell the same as a spell difficulty class (DC)? Does these 2 terms mean the same things or does they function differently ?
Q3. All the spells you unlock after leveling up use the primary attribute of a character, don't they? In the case of Clerics, it's 'Wisdom,' isn't it?
Q4. Do i need to dump points in other attributes aswell to determine my spell hit chance and spell difficulty class DC? If so, then why does the game says that only the primary attribute determines your spell hit chance?

In game description of primary attribute is "The most important ability for your class. It influences you chance to hit and your damage output with weapons attacks and spells"

In game description of Spell difficulty class is " Certain spells requires enemies to make a saving throw. The higher your spell difficulty class, the harder it is to resist your spells.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Gladiator:

Help. Why does each spell have a different (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value?
Here are the condition:
1. Im playing with Shadow Heart
2. Im only single class Cleric not multi class so my primary attribute is "Wisdom"
3. My wisdom is 19, intelligence at 8, charisma at 8, strength 15, dexterity 8, const 17

In-game description shows that my spell difficulty class is 16 when im casting "Bless" but my spell difficulty class is 11 when im casting "Bane".

Q1. Why is (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value not the same with all spells? Doesn't all spell use the primary attribute to determine spell difficulty class ? Shadow hearts (Cleric Class) primary attribute is "Wisdom".
Q2. Is you chance to hit with a spell the same as a spell difficulty class (DC)? Does these 2 terms mean the same things or does they function differently ?
Q3. All the spells you unlock after leveling up use the primary attribute of a character, don't they? In the case of Clerics, it's 'Wisdom,' isn't it?
Q4. Do i need to dump points in other attributes aswell to determine my spell hit chance and spell difficulty class DC? If so, then why does the game says that only the primary attribute determines your spell hit chance?

In game description of primary attribute is "The most important ability for your class. It influences you chance to hit and your damage output with weapons attacks and spells"

In game description of Spell difficulty class is " Certain spells requires enemies to make a saving throw. The higher your spell difficulty class, the harder it is to resist your spells.

Share screenshots to clarify what you mean.

It sounds to me you are mixing up attack rolls and spell DC.

[Maraxus]

Hmm i just checked in a save and bless and bane both have the same spell DC... maybe you are getting the bane spell from an item?

A1. Every spell you cast indeed has the same spell DC, that the target has to roll an ability check against(spell description says which one), it is:

8 + 
proficiency bonus(starts at 1 and increases by 1 every 4 levels) + 
spellcasting ability modifier(0 at 10 and increases or decreases by 1 every 2 points, so at wisdom 19 it is +4).

In the first screenshot, if you hover over the shield icon next to CHA your you can see how the DC is calculated. (15)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3140060558
A2. The chance to hit is different from spell DC, a few spells(like firebolt) use it instead, the bonus is:

Your proficiency bonus + 
spellcasting ability modifier.

and it works like a regular weapon attack. In the previous screenshot that number is the die next to the shield. (+9)

A3. Yes.

A4. No.

You can also increase your DC and/or attack hit chance with spells with some items.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3140060598

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Gladiator:

Here are the condition:
1. Im playing with Shadow Heart
2. Im only single class Cleric not multi class so my primary attribute is "Wisdom"
3. My wisdom is 19, intelligence at 8, charisma at 8, strength 15, dexterity 8, const 17

I would respec and avoid odd ability scores. They are of no value.

In-game description shows that my spell difficulty class is 16 when im casting "Bless" but my spell difficulty class is 11 when im casting "Bane".

Where do you find these numbers at?

Q1. Why is (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value not the same with all spells? Doesn't all spell use the primary attribute to determine spell difficulty class ? Shadow hearts (Cleric Class) primary attribute is "Wisdom".

All spells requiring a saving throw use Spell Saving DC(Press K to see). All attack spells use Spell Attack value + 1d20 as the attack roll.

Your primary ability score for a caster applies to all spells cast including scrolls unless you multiclass and then any scroll cast uses the last lvl 1 caster taken.

Q2. Is you chance to hit with a spell the same as a spell difficulty class (DC)? Does these 2 terms mean the same things or does they function differently ?

For non attack spells yes and yes.

Q3. All the spells you unlock after leveling up use the primary attribute of a character, don't they? In the case of Clerics, it's 'Wisdom,' isn't it?

Yes.

Q4. Do i need to dump points in other attributes aswell to determine my spell hit chance and spell difficulty class DC? If so, then why does the game says that only the primary attribute determines your spell hit chance?

Only if you create a mixed up multiclass and use a lot of scrolls.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

A1. Every spell you cast indeed has the same spell DC, that the target has to roll an ability check against(spell description says which one), it is:

Technically it is not an Ability Check. It is a Saving Throw. Buffs to Ability checks will not buff Spell Saving DC.

The chance to hit is different from spell DC, a few spells(like firebolt) use it instead, the bonus is:

Firebolt uses Spell Attack or 1d20+Spell Attack for it's chance to hit.

Spell Save DC is equivalent to chance to hit but for spells that require a Saving Throw. So the DC is 8+Spell Saving DC.

Some times there are other things that get thrown in the mix like .. Favorable Beginnings.

[Maraxus]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by Maraxus:

A1. Every spell you cast indeed has the same spell DC, that the target has to roll an ability check against(spell description says which one), it is:

Technically it is not an Ability Check. It is a Saving Throw. Buffs to Ability checks will not buff Spell Saving DC.

The chance to hit is different from spell DC, a few spells(like firebolt) use it instead, the bonus is:

Firebolt uses Spell Attack or 1d20+Spell Attack for it's chance to hit.

Spell Save DC is equivalent to chance to hit but for spells that require a Saving Throw. So the DC is 8+Spell Saving DC.

Some times there are other things that get thrown in the mix like .. Favorable Beginnings.

Yeah it's the target that has to make an ability check vs the spell saving throw DC. :p

But ah yes you are right, you get an extra proficiency bonus if you are proficient in those saving throws... guess I will just add the saving throw roll for clarity. xD

d20 + ability modifier + proficiency bonus(if proficient)

And yeah that's what I was saying.. firebolt is just like a regular attack... perhaps i didn't word it clearly... I meant the chance to hit of the spell attack. xD

[Boss]

Simple answer is it's either a tooltip bug, or you get the spells from different sources. Bless doesnt even have a DC, since it never forces a save.

As for Q2: only by coincidence. DC spells are actually 15% less likely to land than attacks, all other things being equal. Add to that the fact it's a lot easier to get advantage on an attack than it is to force disadvantage on a save

[Ironwu]

My recommendation is to do a little research on the game, especially on Cleric. Some things you might want to find out about:

* Why is Str 15, Con 17, Wis 19 NOT a good distribution of Ability points for Shadowheart?
* Why is the Shadowheart default Trickery subclass not good and should be changed ASAP?
* Why is Fire Bolt a useless spell for Shadowheart to cast?
* What is the difference between an Ability check and a Saving Throw?
* What should be the real source of party healing and what is a Cleric really good for?
* Why do you NOT want a Cleric to be the 'Face' and 'Voice' of the party?

These are the sorts of basic things that need to be found out in order to make Shadowheart a viable team member. There are even more to learn about. Here is a more advanced one:

* Why would it be good to spec: Dex 14, Wis 16, Con 16, Int 8, Cha 8, rest into Str.

Good Luck

[jonnin]

shadowheart...
- change her cantrip to produce flame. Its annoying, but it uses wisdom whereas firebolt uses int (racial wizard spell) and the stupid one (sacred flame) almost never hits at all. Firebolt is for blowing up kegs or burning something, not fighting.
trickery isn't all bad. her terrible stats are a big problem.

there are many ways to build her better. My favorite is monk 1, str and wis 16, tavern brawler feat, cleric levels in your favorite domain (light is probably the meta so she can nuke a bit harder). That monk 1 simply turns your bonus action into a hard hitting kick, and on really hard stuff, a couple of double punches can be used and later an amulet you find can refill her ki points to get a couple more double punches. But the kick + mace in the face are solid through act 2, and by then, youll mostly use spells anyway. Starting at level 5 your cantrips do double damage (2 dice instead of 1, not true double) and that equates to 2 weapon swings more or less.

as others said, bane and bless and all should be the same DC. If the spell is in your main actions (where your main hand attack lives), its from an item. If its there, it will not always be ideally suited to cast, sometimes using another stat like int or cha.

the above questions are good questions, but the answers and questions are not all the possibilities. For example you can answer that your main source of heals should be potions, but that may not be true in every act or every sleep cycle. It could also be special magic powers or short rests or even isolating and soloing mobs with the life sucking weapon.

[Gladiator]

Originally posted by northernwater:

In-game description shows that my spell difficulty class is 16 when im casting "Bless" but my spell difficulty class is 11 when im casting "Bane".

Where do you find these numbers at?

I got it from here:

https://imgur.com/a/jWTgYer

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Yeah it's the target that has to make an ability check vs the spell saving throw DC. :p

No. Spell targets make Saving Throws. Your character makes Ability Checks. Ability Checks are associated with Skills like a Stealth Check or a Survival Check. Your character may make Saving Throws outside combat like if it walks through a poison cloud or something, too.

[Gladiator]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Gladiator:

Help. Why does each spell have a different (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value?
Here are the condition:
1. Im playing with Shadow Heart
2. Im only single class Cleric not multi class so my primary attribute is "Wisdom"
3. My wisdom is 19, intelligence at 8, charisma at 8, strength 15, dexterity 8, const 17

In-game description shows that my spell difficulty class is 16 when im casting "Bless" but my spell difficulty class is 11 when im casting "Bane".

Q1. Why is (DC) Spell Difficulty Class Value not the same with all spells? Doesn't all spell use the primary attribute to determine spell difficulty class ? Shadow hearts (Cleric Class) primary attribute is "Wisdom".
Q2. Is you chance to hit with a spell the same as a spell difficulty class (DC)? Does these 2 terms mean the same things or does they function differently ?
Q3. All the spells you unlock after leveling up use the primary attribute of a character, don't they? In the case of Clerics, it's 'Wisdom,' isn't it?
Q4. Do i need to dump points in other attributes aswell to determine my spell hit chance and spell difficulty class DC? If so, then why does the game says that only the primary attribute determines your spell hit chance?

In game description of primary attribute is "The most important ability for your class. It influences you chance to hit and your damage output with weapons attacks and spells"

In game description of Spell difficulty class is " Certain spells requires enemies to make a saving throw. The higher your spell difficulty class, the harder it is to resist your spells.

Share screenshots to clarify what you mean.

It sounds to me you are mixing up attack rolls and spell DC.

here: https://imgur.com/a/jWTgYer

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Gladiator:

Originally posted by northernwater:

Where do you find these numbers at?

I got it from here:

https://imgur.com/a/jWTgYer

For Bless that's a UI bug. When SH casts Bless there is no Saving Throw made by anyone. It is a friendly cast. No one wants to prevent getting the bonus it offers. My version of the game does not include that in the tooltip, oddly.

Here is an image from a fight I just picked to show the DC on Bane. The DC is what you see when you press K on your caster. My cleric is 18, which is low for act 3. Notice the Saving throw made by the target includes Bless because I just Blessed him before attacking to show what Bless does if your character has Bless.

https://imgur.com/a/Lm8O0rN

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Ironwu:

* Why is Fire Bolt a useless spell for Shadowheart to cast?

This is not true. Cantrip attack spells can be very powerful. I use them often when I have a running concentration spell which I want to continue. Cantrips are better than weapon attacks for casters because many optimizations for for the spell casting increase the effectiveness of the Cantrip.

A lot like DOS 2 on my casters I pick weapons not because I use them but because of the buffs they provide. A good example would be Mourning Frost.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Ironwu:

* Why do you NOT want a Cleric to be the 'Face' and 'Voice' of the party?

I play a Deep Gnome Knowledge Cleric and he is great.

[Gladiator]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by Gladiator:

I got it from here:

https://imgur.com/a/jWTgYer

For Bless that's a UI bug. When SH casts Bless there is no Saving Throw made by anyone. It is a friendly cast. No one wants to prevent getting the bonus it offers. My version of the game does not include that in the tooltip, oddly.

Here is an image from a fight I just picked to show the DC on Bane. The DC is what you see when you press K on your caster. My cleric is 18, which is low for act 3. Notice the Saving throw made by the target includes Bless because I just Blessed him before attacking to show what Bless does if your character has Bless.

https://imgur.com/a/Lm8O0rN

How did you get +3 Charisma modifier and aura of protection ? Instead of charisma modifier, shouldn't you get wisdom modifier if your a cleric ?