Jaheira... the hell:?

[Kamuizin]

It's just some rant from me, but... how the hell Jaheira is only level 8 after all SoA and ToB Stuff? She soloed lichs with a hand behind her back (kinda, AD&D mages were on steroids, so maybe not).

And if she's not high level Druid to have timeless body, how's she alive!!!

Half-elf timespan is 180 years afaik. BG2 events started in 1.368DR and BG is in 1492DR, more than 1100 years of difference.

Larian had the perfect excuse to justify her being alive (lvl 18 druid - 2 fighter) and just throw it away?

[Behemmoth]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

It's just some rant from me, but... how the hell Jaheira is only level 8 after all SoA and ToB Stuff? She soloed lichs with a hand behind her back (kinda, AD&D mages were on steroids, so maybe not).

And if she's not high level Druid to have timeless body, how's she alive!!!

Half-elf timespan is 180 years afaik. BG2 events started in 1.368DR and BG is in 1492DR, more than 1100 years of difference.

Larian had the perfect excuse to justify her being alive (lvl 18 druid - 2 fighter) and just throw it away?

Because Larian cared more about creating Divinity 3 rather than actually a sequel to Baldur's Gate franchise.

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by Behemmoth:

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

It's just some rant from me, but... how the hell Jaheira is only level 8 after all SoA and ToB Stuff? She soloed lichs with a hand behind her back (kinda, AD&D mages were on steroids, so maybe not).

And if she's not high level Druid to have timeless body, how's she alive!!!

Half-elf timespan is 180 years afaik. BG2 events started in 1.368DR and BG is in 1492DR, more than 1100 years of difference.

Larian had the perfect excuse to justify her being alive (lvl 18 druid - 2 fighter) and just throw it away?

Because Larian cared more about creating Divinity 3 rather than actually a sequel to Baldur's Gate franchise.

Can’t argue with blatant truth.

The game is still good, it’s just that these details bother my nostalgia.

[Atomsk]

I never use Jaheira, her accent is quite annoying.

[Sardorim]

Originally posted by id795078477:

.. because reasons. Jaheira is also a character where "muh, it's a tadpole doing" sorry excuse doesn't work. Don't expect consistency. The writing in this game isn't on a decent level.

Please. You sound like a blind hater. The writing is fantastic. That's why BG3 won all those awards while your favorite game won 0.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I need Jaheira
I'm holding out for Jaheira till the morning light
She's gotta be strong, she's gotta be old
And she's gotta Wildshape for the fight!
I need Jaheira!

[Lotus86]

Jaheira, Minsc, Viconia, Volo, Sarevok, Elminster are just too many recurring characters.

I would have expected even the storywriters to have more general knowledge of mathematical stochastics. You just have to think of the above names as coins in a common chain of events. Let's say heads = failure and tails = success for a return in BG 3, then it should be clear that never all coin tosses have the same result or show tails/success.

And also the reasoning behind this random chain is just too ridiculous:

3x humans over 100 years old and also still in their prime, two of which appear by space and time magic randomly at the same time and randomly in the same region. A few too many coincidences.

2x aged elves sounds a bit better, but why are Vicci and Sarevok returning to BG when they should be wanted by the Flame Fist? Sarevok in particular should have been banished for life after his crime, when he should have died as an ordinary human without divinity anyway, like Imoen... Jaheira should have faced her own past after the Bhaalspawn saga in Thetir, especially after the loss of loved ones in BG and the surrounding area.

Elminster making a brief appearance is the only thing that fits convincingly.

[votadc]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

It's just some rant from me, but... how the hell Jaheira is only level 8 after all SoA and ToB Stuff? She soloed lichs with a hand behind her back (kinda, AD&D mages were on steroids, so maybe not).

And if she's not high level Druid to have timeless body, how's she alive!!!

Half-elf timespan is 180 years afaik. BG2 events started in 1.368DR and BG is in 1492DR, more than 1100 years of difference.

Larian had the perfect excuse to justify her being alive (lvl 18 druid - 2 fighter) and just throw it away?

She left the party at the beginning of Bg2 after refusing to resurrect Khalid.

[Heart of Storm]

Originally posted by Lotus86:

Jaheira, Minsc, Viconia, Volo, Sarevok, Elminster are just too many recurring characters.

I would have expected even the storywriters to have more general knowledge of mathematical stochastics. You just have to think of the above names as coins in a common chain of events. Let's say heads = failure and tails = success for a return in BG 3, then it should be clear that never all coin tosses have the same result or show tails/success.

And also the reasoning behind this random chain is just too ridiculous:

3x humans over 100 years old and also still in their prime, two of which appear by space and time magic randomly at the same time and randomly in the same region. A few too many coincidences.

2x aged elves sounds a bit better, but why are Vicci and Sarevok returning to BG when they should be wanted by the Flame Fist? Sarevok in particular should have been banished for life after his crime, when he should have died as an ordinary human without divinity anyway, like Imoen... Jaheira should have faced her own past after the Bhaalspawn saga in Thetir, especially after the loss of loved ones in BG and the surrounding area.

Elminster making a brief appearance is the only thing that fits convincingly.

Its almost like the game is set in a universe where magic and gods is a thing and heroes / powerful people are regularly able to extend their lives or something?

As to the "why is she level X and not the epic level hero she was at the end of ToB" - I assume the same reason that Wyll is "the blade of the frontiers" having killed monsters for his whole life to that point, and is still level 1, or Gale is an archmage yet still level 1, or Lae'zel is an experienced fighter and still level 1, or Karlach was fighting in the hells for years but is still level 1.

Narrative isnt always the same as game mechanics.

[Talist]

With most of the companions, they handwave it away as "the tadpole ate their powers" even though that's not shown in-game happening to anyone but your companions. Eh, it's a consequence of making a game based around an established ruleset. Sometimes you have to bend either the narrative or the rules to fit with one another. Most of the time, it's not that jarring, but it is a moment of fridge logic when you get to Jaheira as, narratively, she should be able to solo Ketheric.

[Behemmoth]

Originally posted by Heart of Storm:

Originally posted by Lotus86:

Jaheira, Minsc, Viconia, Volo, Sarevok, Elminster are just too many recurring characters.

I would have expected even the storywriters to have more general knowledge of mathematical stochastics. You just have to think of the above names as coins in a common chain of events. Let's say heads = failure and tails = success for a return in BG 3, then it should be clear that never all coin tosses have the same result or show tails/success.

And also the reasoning behind this random chain is just too ridiculous:

3x humans over 100 years old and also still in their prime, two of which appear by space and time magic randomly at the same time and randomly in the same region. A few too many coincidences.

2x aged elves sounds a bit better, but why are Vicci and Sarevok returning to BG when they should be wanted by the Flame Fist? Sarevok in particular should have been banished for life after his crime, when he should have died as an ordinary human without divinity anyway, like Imoen... Jaheira should have faced her own past after the Bhaalspawn saga in Thetir, especially after the loss of loved ones in BG and the surrounding area.

Elminster making a brief appearance is the only thing that fits convincingly.

Its almost like the game is set in a universe where magic and gods is a thing and heroes / powerful people are regularly able to extend their lives or something?

As to the "why is she level X and not the epic level hero she was at the end of ToB" - I assume the same reason that Wyll is "the blade of the frontiers" having killed monsters for his whole life to that point, and is still level 1, or Gale is an archmage yet still level 1, or Lae'zel is an experienced fighter and still level 1, or Karlach was fighting in the hells for years but is still level 1.

Narrative isnt always the same as game mechanics.

The thing is: BG3 has a poor narrative.

Baldur's Gate 3 is way too epic to be concise with the story being told. Or attempt to be told.

Each character is epic: vampires, gith soldiers, goddess bangers. Your main character is a nobody at all which is just tagging along with all these super awesome people, who for some reason are all level 1. Then all of you are facing Underdark prior to level 4-5, killing demigods, devils, yada yada, whilst being level 10 or under.

BG3 tries to make you the superhero just like every single game nowadays does. There is no sense of adventure nor character growth.

[ChuckyDontCare]

There is a timeless body scroll or something in her little hideout beneath her house, you can ask her about it, I would that is the explanation for her still being around and not in Lord Gortash's Hospice unit.

[Xomap]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Imagine they made bg 4 and you meet astarion, and he's a raving lunatic vampire that you and your party kill with ease.
That's what they did to viconia.

Her character is nothing like bg2 viconia. The canon ending of viconia is slaughtering her entire sect of Shar worshippers for betraying her and scoffing at shars anger, before joining drizzt in saving the elf kingdom and becoming a hero. This all after she left in exile from the underdark and lolth because she refused to sacrifice a child.

Now she's a one dimensional bad guy who's extremely loyal to shar, kidnapping children and slaughtering their family.

Yeah they butchered her. Badly.

If you know that, you know that was in the 12th century DR and Matron DeVir was still on the lookout for her to prostrate herself to Lolth. She was saved by her brother Valas, who was turned to a drider, and she escaped to the surface and turned to Shar. Then she was hunted by elves, saved by Calishite and accused of murdering them. By the 13th century she was being hunted by the Fist, bought some land in Beregost and lived in exile with her neighbour Roran Midfallow, he figured out she was a drow and she murdered him. After several episodes like that, running and murdering and surviving her House destruction, by the 15th century she was the Mother Superior of another Shar cult in Baldur's Gate. That's just another episode in her life and not her canonical end.

[Lani]

Originally posted by Xomap:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Imagine they made bg 4 and you meet astarion, and he's a raving lunatic vampire that you and your party kill with ease.
That's what they did to viconia.

Her character is nothing like bg2 viconia. The canon ending of viconia is slaughtering her entire sect of Shar worshippers for betraying her and scoffing at shars anger, before joining drizzt in saving the elf kingdom and becoming a hero. This all after she left in exile from the underdark and lolth because she refused to sacrifice a child.

Now she's a one dimensional bad guy who's extremely loyal to shar, kidnapping children and slaughtering their family.

Yeah they butchered her. Badly.

If you know that, you know that was in the 12th century DR and Matron DeVir was still on the lookout for her to prostrate herself to Lolth. She was saved by her brother Valas, who was turned to a drider, and she escaped to the surface and turned to Shar. Then she was hunted by elves, saved by Calishite and accused of murdering them. By the 13th century she was being hunted by the Fist, bought some land in Beregost and lived in exile with her neighbour Roran Midfallow, he figured out she was a drow and she murdered him. After several episodes like that, running and murdering and surviving her House destruction, by the 15th century she was the Mother Superior of another Shar cult in Baldur's Gate. That's just another episode in her life and not her canonical end.

Now she sounds like an over regurgitated character who gets dragged into new stories after every conclusion. Sadly that does seem to be a trend with Drow characters in the Forgotten Realm. Over use and over exposure.
Makes me worry what all happened to Liriel Baenre after Starlight & Shadows. I think I won't look.

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by Xomap:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Imagine they made bg 4 and you meet astarion, and he's a raving lunatic vampire that you and your party kill with ease.
That's what they did to viconia.

Her character is nothing like bg2 viconia. The canon ending of viconia is slaughtering her entire sect of Shar worshippers for betraying her and scoffing at shars anger, before joining drizzt in saving the elf kingdom and becoming a hero. This all after she left in exile from the underdark and lolth because she refused to sacrifice a child.

Now she's a one dimensional bad guy who's extremely loyal to shar, kidnapping children and slaughtering their family.

Yeah they butchered her. Badly.

If you know that, you know that was in the 12th century DR and Matron DeVir was still on the lookout for her to prostrate herself to Lolth. She was saved by her brother Valas, who was turned to a drider, and she escaped to the surface and turned to Shar. Then she was hunted by elves, saved by Calishite and accused of murdering them. By the 13th century she was being hunted by the Fist, bought some land in Beregost and lived in exile with her neighbour Roran Midfallow, he figured out she was a drow and she murdered him. After several episodes like that, running and murdering and surviving her House destruction, by the 15th century she was the Mother Superior of another Shar cult in Baldur's Gate. That's just another episode in her life and not her canonical end.

This is hypocrite bro, if you know all this you have romanced her in BG2 and know that the Calishite merchant didn’t saved her for the good of his heaet but to enslave her, you also should know that Roran Midfallow, after discovering her race, fake being still friendly with her and lured Viconia to a trap, where he and his sons raped her, and almost every scenario where she painted herself as a ruthless evil was in truth self defense and survival.

The only true evil that she commited truly was on the blooding of her adulthood, where she killed a kindly priest that tried to help her.

[Xomap]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

This is hypocrite bro, if you know all this you have romanced her in BG2 and know that the Calishite merchant didn’t saved her for the good of his heaet but to enslave her, you also should know that Roran Midfallow, after discovering her race, fake being still friendly with her and lured Viconia to a trap, where he and his sons raped her, and almost every scenario where she painted herself as a ruthless evil was in truth self defense and survival.

The only true evil that she commited truly was on the blooding of her adulthood, where she killed a kindly priest that tried to help her.

I was just giving a quick summary, the guy probably didn't even look her up to start spouting she's 1 dimensional... It's true that the Calishite died of a heart attack and they enslaved her, but she pretty much took control and enslaved them back and everything she did after that was in survival mode, but her only way out is murder... Roran was going to kill her and she killed him first. She's a Neutral Evil character that fights Bhaalists, she's not good but not prone to atrocities either... I can respect her, but I don't pity her... Same with Astarion, tbh.