I did not like the way how they retconned Balduran in the game.

[Aksolotli]

I'm not gonna say any spoilers but if you played the game and you find the true identity of Balduran himself. Problem is in my opinion this is one the worst decisions made by the writers.

I can see and understand this decision but still in my eyes. This is horrible. If there is anything that should be cut of changed it is the identity of Balduran.

[Steffan]

Ah, well. It was a nice twist. Do you think all the heroes from our past are as glorious as they write them in the history books? In addition, whoever he was, he has lost almost everything of what has made him human.

P.S. More than friends does not necessarily mean "lovers"

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by steffan8:

Ah, well. It was a nice twist. Do you think all the heroes from our past are as glorious as they write them in the history books? In addition, whoever he was, he has lost almost everything of what has made him human.

P.S. More than friends does not necessarily mean "lovers"

Nah, everyone knows there are only four options: strangers, enemies, friends, and lovers. Platonic love? Get that ♥♥♥♥ out of here!

[Lani]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Spoilers.


Big Secret stuffs!

I'm not sure why Balduran has to be an elf? Presumably because the are a (far from the only) race with longer than human lifespan?
Are there any solid dates in the story that preclude Balduran having had a human lifespan?
I don't recall the game mentioning any dates for any of Balduran's storypoints at all as the source is the Emperor. Or are there in-game books confirming things, with dates.
And the emperor himself is not limited to a human lifespan.
Even a lot of humans in Faerun aren't limited to a human lifespan and Balduran by all accounts had the wealth to buy himself one or more lifespan extending dweomers.

[Aksolotli]

Originally posted by Lani:

Originally posted by seeker1:

Spoilers.


Big Secret stuffs!

I'm not sure why Balduran has to be an elf? Presumably because the are a (far from the only) race with longer than human lifespan?
Are there any solid dates in the story that preclude Balduran having had a human lifespan?
I don't recall the game mentioning any dates for any of Balduran's storypoints at all as the source is the Emperor. Or are there in-game books confirming things, with dates.
And the emperor himself is not limited to a human lifespan.
Even a lot of humans in Faerun aren't limited to a human lifespan and Balduran by all accounts had the wealth to buy himself one or more lifespan extending dweomers.

Balduran is definitely a Human. He's been a Human since 1988. It would be super crazy to race bend him like that.

[Brian Sirith]

They retconned their own character and lore in DOS2. I consider them extremely bad at continuity, and occasionally at storytelling too.

What helps me enjoy their games: DOS2 happened in an alternate reality where the BBEG/idiot is definitely not me cool character from the first game. BG3 happens also in an alternate reality, where Minsc doesn’t remember the Bhaalspawn because they spoke all of 3 sentences to each other.

And then I enjoy Larians games, for the inconsistent mess that they are. :)

Edit: Yeah, don’t really mind Minsc. But Viconia -who I didn’t even like in the original games- and Balduran were a mess.

[ppaladin123]

I think a lot of the problems with the story and timeline come down to shoehorning in the Balduran stuff and I agree it is an unncessary addition that detracts from the overall story

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Brian Sirith:

They retconned their own character and lore in DOS2. I consider them extremely bad at continuity, and occasionally at storytelling too.

What helps me enjoy their games: DOS2 happened in an alternate reality where the BBEG/idiot is definitely not me cool character from the first game. BG3 happens also in an alternate reality, where Minsc doesn’t remember the Bhaalspawn because they spoke all of 3 sentences to each other.

And then I enjoy Larians games, for the inconsistent mess that they are. :)

Edit: Yeah, don’t really mind Minsc. But Viconia -who I didn’t even like in the original games- and Balduran were a mess.

Memory & wit has never been the strength of Minsc.

Viconia is my favourite companion from BG2. She is an antagonist in BG3 but I do not think they went counter to her character, at least in one of her endings. This is at least how I felt it. And in the original BG1 there was not much said about Balduran anyway, other than partial information about his crew and his helmet.

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Nah, everyone knows there are only four options: strangers, enemies, friends, and lovers. Platonic love? Get that ♥♥♥♥ out of here!

Hmm, what about brotherly love?

[ppaladin123]

Originally posted by Aksolotli:

Originally posted by Lani:

I'm not sure why Balduran has to be an elf? Presumably because the are a (far from the only) race with longer than human lifespan?
Are there any solid dates in the story that preclude Balduran having had a human lifespan?
I don't recall the game mentioning any dates for any of Balduran's storypoints at all as the source is the Emperor. Or are there in-game books confirming things, with dates.
And the emperor himself is not limited to a human lifespan.
Even a lot of humans in Faerun aren't limited to a human lifespan and Balduran by all accounts had the wealth to buy himself one or more lifespan extending dweomers.

Balduran is definitely a Human. He's been a Human since 1988. It would be super crazy to race bend him like that.

Yet they did. When you see his statue/the mural under baldurs Gate clickin on it will have the character say "an elf and a dragon working together...."

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by ppaladin123:

Originally posted by Aksolotli:

Balduran is definitely a Human. He's been a Human since 1988. It would be super crazy to race bend him like that.

Yet they did. When you see his statue/the mural under baldurs Gate clickin on it will have the character say "an elf and a dragon working together...."

And it's utterly meaningless. Does it really matter if he's a human or an elf?

[Steffan]

Originally posted by ppaladin123:

Originally posted by Aksolotli:

Balduran is definitely a Human. He's been a Human since 1988. It would be super crazy to race bend him like that.

Yet they did. When you see his statue/the mural under baldurs Gate clickin on it will have the character say "an elf and a dragon working together...."

It is likely an oversight from Larian. Mistakes can happen but his race is irrelevant for the story.

From the wiki

"Although Baldur's Gate III displays a mural that depicts Balduran and Ansur and has characters refer to Balduran as an elf, this is unlikely given his origin in human society and his views on elves in his log book. Most likely, he was intended to be human in earlier sources, and this was confirmed by Ed Greenwood in a tweet on the matter. However, this does not explain his great lifespan, even as an illithid , but numerous magical explanations are possible."

[Kafik]

Originally posted by steffan8:

Originally posted by ppaladin123:

Yet they did. When you see his statue/the mural under baldurs Gate clickin on it will have the character say "an elf and a dragon working together...."

It is likely an oversight from Larian. Mistakes can happen but his race is irrelevant for the story.

From the wiki

"Although Baldur's Gate III displays a mural that depicts Balduran and Ansur and has characters refer to Balduran as an elf, this is unlikely given his origin in human society and his views on elves in his log book. Most likely, he was intended to be human in earlier sources, and this was confirmed by Ed Greenwood in a tweet on the matter. However, this does not explain his great lifespan, even as an illithid , but numerous magical explanations are possible."

If he spent most of that time in the astral plane time is different, so he may not really have an abnormally long lifespan. Assuming Baldurian really is a mind flayer now.

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Kafik:

Originally posted by steffan8:

It is likely an oversight from Larian. Mistakes can happen but his race is irrelevant for the story.

From the wiki

"Although Baldur's Gate III displays a mural that depicts Balduran and Ansur and has characters refer to Balduran as an elf, this is unlikely given his origin in human society and his views on elves in his log book. Most likely, he was intended to be human in earlier sources, and this was confirmed by Ed Greenwood in a tweet on the matter. However, this does not explain his great lifespan, even as an illithid , but numerous magical explanations are possible."

If he spent most of that time in the astral plane time is different, so he may not really have an abnormally long lifespan. Assuming Baldurian really is a mind flayer now.

Was the Absolute not In Moonrise before the plan of three Chosen? I doubt our Balduran was in the Astral Plane, unless I miss something.

[Kafik]

Originally posted by steffan8:

Originally posted by Kafik:

If he spent most of that time in the astral plane time is different, so he may not really have an abnormally long lifespan. Assuming Baldurian really is a mind flayer now.

Was the Absolute not In Moonrise before the plan of three Chosen? I doubt our Balduran was in the Astral Plane, unless I miss something.

I don't know, doubtful. I think the Emperor just lies. Like he's lied about everything.

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Kafik:

Originally posted by steffan8:

Was the Absolute not In Moonrise before the plan of three Chosen? I doubt our Balduran was in the Astral Plane, unless I miss something.

I don't know, doubtful. I think the Emperor just lies. Like he's lied about everything.

Hmm, but it is actually Ansur who makes the revelation...

But who am I to judge? Head cannon is a thing. I have head-cannoned Abdel Arian into non-existence (or rather to normal hero from the past of BG) and changed the parentage of the Dark Urge to my previous Bhaalspawn from BG1 and BG2. It matters not, if you feel better and makes the game more immersive.

[Gaunter O´Damn]

imo the one claiming to be Bladuran isn`t him actually, so no, I have to diasagree