I did not like the way how they retconned Balduran in the game.

[Aksolotli]

I'm not gonna say any spoilers but if you played the game and you find the true identity of Balduran himself. Problem is in my opinion this is one the worst decisions made by the writers.

I can see and understand this decision but still in my eyes. This is horrible. If there is anything that should be cut of changed it is the identity of Balduran.

[kbiz]

Yes, they retconned Balduran. Good word choice.

[EricHVela]

The character that claims to be Balduran is a chronic liar. The one that confirms the identity has other issues that are quite severe.

Then again, maybe the Occam's Razor method means it is what it appears to be on the surface (though there are so many things in BG3 where the OR path leads to the wrong conclusion).

Who's to say what will happen going forward? Maybe the story will change in the future for who Balduran is. There's wiggle room for it. If there's enough disappointment, you can bet there'll be another retcon with an excuse why it's not another retcon but a correction.

As for me, I don't know enough about Balduran to know what happened with that character. (...and I've yet to get the related quest line even after saving certain people.)

[Orion Invictus]

I prefer a retcon where someone's given a history instead of the generic "mythical, nebulous figure with no real identity" cliche. The unknown can be interesting. The unknowable is always boring.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

The unknowable is always boring.

We always argue about the unknowable. AI won't make the unknowable knowable either. We gotta get from here to there. And there ain't no path.

But, yeah, they retconned Balduran. No and's, if's, or but's.

[Aksolotli]

Originally posted by EricHVela:

The character that claims to be Balduran is a chronic liar. The one that confirms the identity has other issues that are quite severe.

Then again, maybe the Occam's Razor method means it is what it appears to be on the surface (though there are so many things in BG3 where the OR path leads to the wrong conclusion).

Who's to say what will happen going forward? Maybe the story will change in the future for who Balduran is. There's wiggle room for it. If there's enough disappointment, you can bet there'll be another retcon with an excuse why it's not another retcon but a correction.

As for me, I don't know enough about Balduran to know what happened with that character. (...and I've yet to get the related quest line even after saving certain people.)

I instantly went like. Bro he has to be Balduran II. That is just plain stupidity to shoe horn Balduran himself like that way. I see the coolness of but damm no. You just don't flip around lore like that like it's whoopsie haisy.

[Josephus]

I thought it was AWESOME. BG3 tied up pretty much all of the loose ends from the previous games, and the "resolution" of Balduran himself puts a definite end to the previous era of D&D lore. I feel like I have new closure on thirty years of adventures.

[seeker1]

Spoilers.


IMHO, Larian saw an opening in Tales of the Sword Coast, the BG1 expansion. It leaves things open ended. You find Balduran's ship wreck. And some people tell you he died, became a werewolf, or sided with the werewolves, but the bottom line is his fate is described as unknown. This is the room for their retcon. They say he survived the shipwreck, made it off the island (though they don't say how), and ... well the Emperor tells you the rest of the story.

This creates a timeline problem they can only solve by making Balduran an elf, even though the character's creator, Ed Greenwood, and all the original lore says he was human.

I agree the Emperor lies constantly, and might also be lying about being Balduran. The weird thing is Ansur confirms it. But, dunno, could be being an undead lich-dragon for a long period of time leads to confusion.

What I find odd is it's really inconsequential to the story they do this. My view of the Emperor does not change even when I find out he is Balduran. Even if he was, that part of him is long gone. He is now the manipulative douchebag that he admits to be. I wonder if - as happens in most of my endings - folks will take down the statues of Balduran when they find out the founder of the city sided with the giant brain trying to destroy it.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by kbiz:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

The unknowable is always boring.

We always argue about the unknowable. AI won't make the unknowable knowable either. We gotta get from here to there. And there ain't no path.

But, yeah, they retconned Balduran. No and's, if's, or but's.

And because the unknowable is unknowable, there's no answer. The arguments are irrelevant. It also makes for shoddy writing - if not even the author knows what the character is like, then there's no real character to speak of, just a plot device.

[kbiz]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by kbiz:

We always argue about the unknowable. AI won't make the unknowable knowable either. We gotta get from here to there. And there ain't no path.

But, yeah, they retconned Balduran. No and's, if's, or but's.

And because the unknowable is unknowable, there's no answer. The arguments are irrelevant. It also makes for shoddy writing - if not even the author knows what the character is like, then there's no real character to speak of, just a plot device.

The arguments are relevant. But how important? It's like a social science, Orion Invictus. Let's go with consensus.

By the way, and I mean no disrespect cuz you're smart, I see your avatar like a lil rubber ducky.

[Aksolotli]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Spoilers.


IMHO, Larian saw an opening in Tales of the Sword Coast, the BG1 expansion. It leaves things open ended. You find Balduran's ship wreck. And some people tell you he died, became a werewolf, or sided with the werewolves, but the bottom line is his fate is described as unknown. This is the room for their retcon. They say he survived the shipwreck, made it off the island (though they don't say how), and ... well the Emperor tells you the rest of the story.

This creates a timeline problem they can only solve by making Balduran an elf, even though the character's creator, Ed Greenwood, and all the original lore says he was human.

I agree the Emperor lies constantly, and might also be lying about being Balduran. The weird thing is Ansur confirms it. But, dunno, could be being an undead lich-dragon for a long period of time leads to confusion.

What I find odd is it's really inconsequential to the story they do this. My view of the Emperor does not change even when I find out he is Balduran. Even if he was, that part of him is long gone. He is now the manipulative douchebag that he admits to be. I wonder if - as happens in most of my endings - folks will take down the statues of Balduran when they find out the founder of the city sided with the giant brain trying to destroy it.

Maybe Emperor is lying then and then he is follower of Cyric or even a version of Cyric himself. You can always do a 50DC Deception roll on a Dragon to make you think he was Balduran or even inject fake memories.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by kbiz:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

And because the unknowable is unknowable, there's no answer. The arguments are irrelevant. It also makes for shoddy writing - if not even the author knows what the character is like, then there's no real character to speak of, just a plot device.

The arguments are relevant. But how important? It's like a social science, Orion Invictus. Let's go with consensus.

By the way, and I mean no disrespect cuz you're smart, I see your avatar like a lil rubber ducky.

Reality is not determined by consensus. In this case it's the "reality of fiction", if you will, but still. Something either is or isn't. Harry Potter is a wizard, this isn't up for debate.

And yeah, I can see that.

[Boss]

I swear, I've seen this exact same thread before...

[Aksolotli]

Originally posted by Boss:

I swear, I've seen this exact same thread before...

Possible. I did the quest line today. I was really shocked and not in a good way.

[Captain Apollo Diomedes]

You forgot to mention that Balduran is gay as well.
When you meet the dragon-thing and talk with him, he mentions that they were more than friends with Balduran. Very important lore, super rich, exquisitely written story.
One can imagine...

[Aksolotli]

Originally posted by Gordon:

You forgot to mention that Balduran is gay as well.
When you meet the dragon-thing and talk with him, he mentions that they were more than friends with Balduran. Very important lore, super rich, exquisitely written story.
One can imagine...

How is that possible? Balduran already knew Asur when he was human.