The "Rings of Power" of Baldurs Gate

[moace]

Poor story with extreme wokeness. Will we see black dwarves (of course with no beards) too? i guess the graphics and music are good (like Rings of Power). Trashheap!

[Arasine]

Who cares what colour the Dwarves are ? As long as they act like Dwarves...

[Trap Queen 85]

Origineel geplaatst door Martin:

My first girlfriend was a white Kenyan.. my first experience of any africans was from her and her family. Overall a very positive attitude.

I've found in life that children tend to be the opposite of their parents, to try to improve on their attitudes, this is so for all people, everywhere. Some people go the other way.. each is an individual with differing opinions and attitudes various times per day. So who knows what people really think..? Wether this is irl or fantasy the same rules must apply. There is always cross pollination.. improvement or otherwise.

People aren't always wrong or always right and having an opinion on monday that is controversial doesn't mean they'll think the same way on tuesday. I only judge people on their actions. What they say literally means nothing. How they act does. Similarly I don't accept or make apologies, improvement in action is only respected. So if someone is wrong on monday but improves on tuesday that's all that matters to me and in my experience, this is so for everyone.

And if this applies irl.. then maybe it also applies in fantasy, in games, made by people irl.. so make your own judgement, each time, in each interaction, don't judge books by their covers or even by their contents, but by the results you gain from reading them. By the actions that result.

To me there is no such thing as racism or variousophobias or isms.. those are just opinions that change hourly. Not worth the energy of judgement.

Awesome and interesting point of view which clearly has an affect on your outlook which seems to be a positive one.

That said it's not representative of human nature as we know it and that's the problem. People want to see a landscape that is representative of their own ideals or hopes but reality is much different and if we [humans] are the template [which we have to be because we are all we know] for mortal beings then we know how flawed we actually are and it is unrealistic to depict mortals as something outside of that. So when you start depicting things in a way that is unnatural to what people know they of course see it and feel it right away and thus the break in immersion.

Breaking immersion for the majority for the sake of vision [which is the vision of the minority of we're being honest] is unnecessary and creates all sorts of problems that don't need to occur. You should create a foundation that is realistic and immersive and then expand from there by adding fantasy elements that stretch the imagination without breaking it.

That's not to say you can't create a fantasy that has nothing at all tied to reality but again that should be considered more niche. D&D is an established IP so forcing core concept changes through retcons and unexplained adds is not going to sit well. The better thing to do is simply move the story forward using history and lore and diversity consistent with the geographical and migrations of the people of the world as the starting point but having pivotal occurrences that promotes the change.

[KOHb]

Origineel geplaatst door frowningmirror:

In D&D there is no irl limitations on your character's identity. All races can be different color skin tones or sexuality.

But when it's lacking explanation or plot — it looks stupid :)
There are so much instruments to explain something in fantasy world. A lot more than IRL.

Never tried to create character in PnP? Writing a good, not lacking of logics background? The character perceived a lot more wholesome when all his appearance and abilities has at least some roots.

[Grimreaper]

report and move on

[Sir_Baldur]

This whole post boils down to - "I was introduced to a fantasy trope in the 1980s which I internalized to be a part of my core idenitiy - to which if I see anything that does not reflect my prior understanding of the world setting - means it is woke."

I've long since come to realize that anyone who says "Drizzt fan boy" are either racist, sexist, or a combination of those views.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Origineel geplaatst door Hickory Pete:

Origineel geplaatst door Trap Queen 85:

Really? How about tell me how many artist depictions you find of non white Dwarves [not counting Duegar] in any of the D&D books out there? Let's start there. Again not saying they don't or shouldn't exist but I am saying it should make sense and generally if you found then they should most likely all be of the same ethnicity [aka Gold, Artic, Grey, etc.] with one off situations being possible. Dwarves are not humans.

Yes, so in the official Player's Handbook, it says this in regards to dwarf skin color:

"Dwarven skin ranges from deep brown to a paler hue tinged with red, but the most common shades are light brown or deep tan, like certain tones of earth."

So ...

Skin tone does not ethnicity make it is simply one of many identifiers. You basically just described a Dwarf as having earth tones. In almost every artist representation they are not shown as any representative of the non-white ethnic groups we would see among humans in reality.

So seems like there is a bit of an oops moment there with regard to their depiction vs. their descriptions but despite that again skin tone is not the only consideration of culture / ethnicity.

Also since someone mentioned it I'll repost here ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bVt0gqLEY

[Trap Queen 85]

Origineel geplaatst door Sir_Baldur:

This whole post boils down to - "I was introduced to a fantasy trope in the 1980s which I internalized to be a part of my core idenitiy - to which if I see anything that does not reflect my prior understanding of the world setting - means it is woke."

I've long since come to realize that anyone who says "Drizzt fan boy" are either racist, sexist, or a combination of those views.

Wrong. Nice try though my SJW dude. Reading comprehension is important. Read moar, assume less.

[Grimreaper]

Origineel geplaatst door Vixzian:

Origineel geplaatst door Hickory Pete:

Yes, so in the official Player's Handbook, it says this in regards to dwarf skin color:

"Dwarven skin ranges from deep brown to a paler hue tinged with red, but the most common shades are light brown or deep tan, like certain tones of earth."

So ...

Skin tone does not ethnicity make it is simply one of many identifiers. You basically just described a Dwarf as having earth tones. In almost every artist representation they are not shown as any representative of the non-white ethnic groups we would see among humans in reality.

So seems like there is a bit of an oops moment there with regard to their depiction vs. their descriptions but despite that again skin tone is not the only consideration of culture / ethnicity.

Also since someone mentioned it I'll repost here ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bVt0gqLEY

why did you bring up ethnicity/culture ?

it seems like Hickory showed you official proof that dwarfs can be non-white and that was different from you beliefs so you just changed the goal post and start talking about ethnicity

"oh there is a official description proving my beliefs wrong? well that doesn't count it was just a "oops moment" anyway here something that no one was even talking about to sound smart." lol

[hoot hoot]

Origineel geplaatst door Vixzian:

Origineel geplaatst door Hickory Pete:

Yes, so in the official Player's Handbook, it says this in regards to dwarf skin color:

"Dwarven skin ranges from deep brown to a paler hue tinged with red, but the most common shades are light brown or deep tan, like certain tones of earth."

So ...

Skin tone does not ethnicity make it is simply one of many identifiers. You basically just described a Dwarf as having earth tones. In almost every artist representation they are not shown as any representative of the non-white ethnic groups we would see among humans in reality.

So seems like there is a bit of an oops moment there with regard to their depiction vs. their descriptions but despite that again skin tone is not the only consideration of culture / ethnicity.

Also since someone mentioned it I'll repost here ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bVt0gqLEY

To be clear, I don't care one way or the other. My original point was that DnD is very less specific because players will ultimately make up their own rules and characters. It's different from Tolkien's Arda in that his world/universe is centered around the specific narratives, cultures, and histories he wrote rather than stories made up by players all over the world.

Dwarves originated from northern European folklore, so it doesn't surprise me that the traditional view of a dwarf is of a pale-skinned ball or angry hair and muscle, but I don't think there's any actual limitations in the realm of DnD on what you want to do with your character. The Player's Handbook itself refers to the skin colors as the most common colors you'll see, but makes no claim that they're the only skin color ranges. A full-on black dwarf is justifiable if that's what the player wants.

[Trap Queen 85]

Origineel geplaatst door Hickory Pete:

Origineel geplaatst door Vixzian:

Skin tone does not ethnicity make it is simply one of many identifiers. You basically just described a Dwarf as having earth tones. In almost every artist representation they are not shown as any representative of the non-white ethnic groups we would see among humans in reality.

So seems like there is a bit of an oops moment there with regard to their depiction vs. their descriptions but despite that again skin tone is not the only consideration of culture / ethnicity.

Also since someone mentioned it I'll repost here ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bVt0gqLEY

To be clear, I don't care one way or the other. My original point was that DnD is very less specific because players will ultimately make up their own rules and characters. It's different from Tolkien's Arda in that his world/universe is centered around the specific narratives, cultures, and histories he wrote rather than stories made up by players all over the world.

Dwarves originated from northern European folklore, so it doesn't surprise me that the traditional view of a dwarf is of a pale-skinned ball or angry hair and muscle, but I don't think there's any actual limitations in the realm of DnD on what you want to do with your character.

But we aren't talking about our character we are talking about the world at large. Character wise anyone can be anything and that's always been the case in D&D. But characters can represent the 'one-off' or rarest of situations available.

[KOHb]

Origineel geplaatst door Sir_Baldur:

This whole post boils down to - "I was introduced to a fantasy trope in the 1980s which I internalized to be a part of my core idenitiy - to which if I see anything that does not reflect my prior understanding of the world setting - means it is woke."

I've long since come to realize that anyone who says "Drizzt fan boy" are either racist, sexist, or a combination of those views.

You got it wrong.
Also all fantasy and sci-fi and some other genres are just a cover for dramaturgy.
Almost all fantasy books and media are about people and their relations, but masked under whimsical shell.
This shell refers to art which obey some logic rules of composition, aesthetics and authenticity. Which looks organic when observed.
And relatively fake when it has no foundation and subtext.
Following modern trends despite logics leads to 'bad taste' art shell to your composition.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Origineel geplaatst door Grimreaper:

Origineel geplaatst door Vixzian:

Skin tone does not ethnicity make it is simply one of many identifiers. You basically just described a Dwarf as having earth tones. In almost every artist representation they are not shown as any representative of the non-white ethnic groups we would see among humans in reality.

So seems like there is a bit of an oops moment there with regard to their depiction vs. their descriptions but despite that again skin tone is not the only consideration of culture / ethnicity.

Also since someone mentioned it I'll repost here ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bVt0gqLEY

why did you bring up ethnicity/culture ?

it seems like Hickory showed you official proof that dwarfs can be non-white and that was different from you beliefs so you just changed the goal post and start talking about ethnicity

"oh there is a official description proving my beliefs wrong? well that doesn't count it was just a "oops moment" anyway here something that no one was even talking about to sound smart." lol

Uh what in the world are you talking about? What proof.... just to start with. That isn't proof it's simply a descriptor that does nothing to overturn the proof presented that ethnic groups, while they do exist, do so on the basis of things like migration patterns. On top of that the descriptor is only talking about skin color. So if anything said 'proof'... coupled with artistic depictions only deepens the viewpoint that 'ethnic' dwarves were an afterthought in recent trends not something that was actually analyzed and described in a way that would lead one to believe the creators wanted us to believe that Dwarves had ethnic diversity in the way humans do.

Then outside of that ethnicity culture is directly related to skin tone.... sooo.... ??? The presented argument was how they are depicted artistically vs. how they are described.

[Imperium]

Origineel geplaatst door mopace:

Poor story with extreme wokeness. Will we see black dwarves (of course with no beards) too? i guess the graphics and music are good (like Rings of Power). Trashheap!

Since your profile is private, I cant tell, how many hours do you have in game? Also lol you gonna get trashed by this very defensive community,

On this topic, devs should have a slider in character creator Straight/gay/bi depending on what you choose it should turn off all romantic options with those genders... lets face it, being a complitionist and seeing romantic options for characters you only want to be friends with is... annoying. Sexual preference slider will make everyone happy and about as close to real life as you can get.

[Trap Queen 85]

Origineel geplaatst door Vixzian:

Uh what in the world are you talking about? What proof.... just to start with. That isn't proof it's simply a descriptor that does nothing to overturn the proof presented that ethnic groups, while they do exist, do so on the basis of things like migration patterns. On top of that the descriptor is only talking about skin color. So if anything said 'proof'... coupled with artistic depictions only deepens the viewpoint that 'ethnic' dwarves were an afterthought in recent trends not something that was actually analyzed and described in a way that would lead one to believe the creators wanted us to believe that Dwarves had ethnic diversity in the way humans do.

Then outside of that ethnicity culture is directly related to skin tone.... sooo.... ??? The presented argument was how they are depicted artistically vs. how they are described.

To be fair they do have ethnic diversity just not in the way people here are trying to describe them which, to your own point, is to make them seem in the likeness of humans. Also as you mentioned those are based on migration which is why Dwarves, if you use Faerun as an example, have things like Gold Dwarves, Artic Dwarves, Grey Dwarves, etc. But those communities generally look like one another while looking different from their brethren from other geographic communities.

Which is to say there wouldn't be this New York melting pot of Dwarven ethnicities in any given community.

[Arthel]

Origineel geplaatst door mopace:

Poor story with extreme wokeness. Will we see black dwarves (of course with no beards) too? i guess the graphics and music are good (like Rings of Power). Trashheap!

Why do you need the world to see your biggotted self making a fool of yourself like that. Why there's a wave of guys like you here ? Is it the trailer with the two girls kissing that is making you all angery ?

But really, DnD has always been a diversified universe, I don't see why anyone is surprised of anything, not that there is any reasons to be in first place, but especially with this franchise, like come on, why a black character would be bad writting ? Because you are racist and that's all, it doesnt demine the scenario or anything, it just pisses off rotten souls like you. Srsly just go touch some grass, you're such a dumbass and a fool at the same time, it's sad for you