Druid damage spell seem weird

[Kuro]

I am comparing Moon beam level 2 spell (MB) and Call lightning level 3 spell (CL).
Both are AoE spell, with CL being a bit larger than MB.
Both can be resisted for half the damage with a dex saving throw. (Edit : my bad , MB is a Con saving throw)
Both requiere Concentration.
Both can be use again each turn for free but, when you do it with MB, the 10 turns counter 'Reset' , it seem that it's not the case with CL (didn't test it in combat , maybe there it works)

Now the damage, with respective spell slot usage ( 2 for MB and 3 for CL) :
Cl does 3d10 ligthning damage ( I know you can boost this with getting the ennemy wet).
MB does 2d10 Radiant damage, but MB does damage when you cast it on targets and when the targets take their turns so it does basicly 4d10.
And this is if you only use a level 2 spell slot , with a 3 spell slot it hit for 3d10 +3d10 at ennemy turns.

So without Wet, why you would want to use CL, the only benefict is the AoE radius ? (Even with Wet condition, it doesn't feel that great , I mean you have to set up things to do the same damage as MB lvl 3 with an increase radius ?)

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

So, Moonbeam isn't supposed to deal damage more than once per turn (the extra 2d10 is something Larian hasn't got around to fixing yet).

Also, the 'wet' condition is something Larian added, it's not vanilla D&D.

You can drink a Potion of Speed and call down lightning twice in one turn, not sure if that also works for Moonbeam.

Finally, they are different damage types. A creature could be resistant or even immune to either one.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

So, Moonbeam isn't supposed to deal damage more than once per turn (the extra 2d10 is something Larian hasn't got around to fixing yet).

Also, the 'wet' condition is something Larian added, it's not vanilla D&D.

You can drink a Potion of Speed and call down lightning twice in one turn, not sure if that also works for Moonbeam.

Finally, they are different damage types. A creature could be resistant or even immune to either one.

Wasn't aware that MB is not supposed to deal two time it's damage. (So maybe the 'reset' on recast is a bug to, or not intended?)

Forgot to mention it. Yeah I know Wet condition is an Homebrew Larian rule. Thanks for the reminder

You can (with both MB and CL)but you will just do 2d10 per cast and the enemy will take 2d10 at their turn ( or 3d10 if it's a lvl 3 spell slot)

Good point, didn't think of that.

Thanks for the reply.

[Edstyles]

another benefit would be the dex save as u mention so its bigger area and has a dex save and from what i understand moonbeam isnt working as intended.

[KOHb]

Moonbeam does not have to make damage on cast. It is bugged (not woking as intended).
Only when someone enters it by his will (using moving points), or starts it's turn inside the beam.

So, atm there are at least 2 problems with it — enemy gains exess instance of damage when you move the ray. And the second — AI, which is too bold to move around it and get out of it at the start of the turn after taking damage.

As to difference to those spells, as mentioned earlier: different damage types, radius and con/dex save check. And initially right working MB have potential to make more instances of damage, but if enemies are smart enough — it's almost impossible.
But also enemy could be pushed in MB and then it will gain damage at the start of their turn in ray.

[Kuro]

So in short, Moon Beam is overtunned right now.

And regarding Moon Beam reseting to 10 turns on cast and not Call lightning, wich is intended and wich is not, or buggued?
( I don't think it's a major issue, cause 10 turns is long so the fight might be finish in such time or you loose your concentration saving throw, but you can exploit it by casting Moon beam each 'turn' inbetween combat and carry the concentration to the next fight)

[KOHb]

Originally posted by Kuro:

So in short, Moon Beam is overtunned right now.

Yup. Same as cloud of daggers and a lot of other bugged (or at least working not like intended, balance breaking) things. You get guaranteed double damage on cast instead of only 1 instance on enemy's start of turn.

Add here AI imperfection which makes enemy step into the light where it is not needed (and not going out of it after taking damage) and you get totally overpowered cheesy spell :)

The real model of spell vs. intelligent creatures is so:
You cast it. On turn start enemy takes (1) instance of damage. Or don't even take it at all if their party member can pull him out of the ray. Then after taking damage enemy gets out of the ray to prevent next round damage / provoke druid to spend his turn on recasting.

In EA we have:
(2) Extra damage on initial cast, (1) damage on turn start, (3) damage on next turn start, because your stupid enemy chose to remain in the ray or recast damage, (4) extra random damage when other enemies step into it willingly (which most of intelligent creatures will never do).

[dolby]

Originally posted by Criminal Horse:

Originally posted by Kuro:

So in short, Moon Beam is overtunned right now.

Yup. Same as cloud of daggers and a lot of other bugged (or at least working not like intended, balance breaking) things. You get guaranteed double damage on cast instead of only 1 instance on enemy's start of turn.

Add here AI imperfection which makes enemy step into the light where it is not needed (and not going out of it after taking damage) and you get totally overpowered cheesy spell :)

The real model of spell vs. intelligent creatures is so:
You cast it. On turn start enemy takes (1) instance of damage. Or don't even take it at all if their party member can pull him out of the ray. Then after taking damage enemy gets out of the ray to prevent next round damage / provoke druid to spend his turn on recasting.

In EA we have:
(2) Extra damage on initial cast, (1) damage on turn start, (3) damage on next turn start, because your stupid enemy chose to remain in the ray or recast damage, (4) extra random damage when other enemies step into it willingly (which most of intelligent creatures will never do).

Granted if they did it the other way AI could just shove people out of Moonbeam and you would get nothing from it same as with daggers.

In short they work as ground AoE works... they tick damage every turn if you stand in them and that is kinda logical..

You have the same problem now with webs and roots and spells like that cos they don't work that way and the AI can just jump out... makign the whole thing useless more or less.

[KOHb]

Originally posted by dolby:

granted if they did it the other way AI could just shove people out of Moonbeam and you would get nothing from it same as with daggers in short they work as ground AoE works... they tick damage every turn if you stand in them and that is kinda logical.. You have the same problem now with webs and roots and spells like that cos they do not work that way and the AI can just jump out...

Haven't seen enemies shoving each other out of the ray in BG3, but I wrote about this possibility too. Quote: "Or don't even take it at all if their party member can pull him out of the ray."

Long jumps make one of my favourite spell: Spike Growth almost useless :P

But the poblem still remains: MB makes too much unintended damage. And needs a fix IMO.

Btw call lighning is working inside close interiors, which is not right too, but I think this is neglectable in cRPG.