Level 5 warlock is unfair

[WeenerTuck813]

Agonizing blast is broken and applying to each source of damage.

I just opened with a 2 beam Eldritch blast:

*Edit for specifics because people aren’t getting it:

9 dam (5+4 *AGONIZING BLAST A* - beam 1
13 dam (9+4 *AGONIZING BLAST B*) - beam 2
4 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* A)
5 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* B)

It’s getting double applied.

And this is not counting when I have lightning charges. They def need to fix this, Wyll is 1 shoting enemies for 40+ dmg

[Indure]

Escrito originalmente por Jiren, The Strongest:

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

In general yah

But a lvl 5 warlock should be doing 15-25 damage with Eldritch blast, not 45 damage.

45 damage is outpacing any spell a Wizard has at level 5, and doing it as a cantrip

you're completely mischaracterizing whats happening.
He's only getting +Charisma from Hex damage, with two beams, this means he's getting a total of 8 damage more than he should. This could be as high as 10 damage if he had 20 charisma, and if a warlock doesnt have maxed charisma and only has say 14 or 16 then its only 4 or 6 extra damage

You're acting like he's getting 20 extra damage. He's not. He's getting 8. 10 at charisma 20.

While this is still problematic, its not quite the end of the world scenario some of you are making it out to be, considering hold person can let you flat out kill anything and everything, and we can shove or throw enemies to their deaths, 8 damage isnt really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Some people are confused how Eldritch Blast works.
Eldritch Blast is a unique cantrip that is treated as two, three, and four separate attacks, equal to extra attack at level 5, 11, and..what, 17? The reason its op is because its the only cantrip, barring very rare exception (like certain sorceress subclasses) that can add their casting modifier to the damage.

Normally, a cantrip does not add bonus damage from the casting stat. So, Eldritch Blast normally, along with any other cantrip, should only be dealing 1-10 and nothing added. But with this Invocation: Agonizing Blast, it allows you to add your damage, similar to a weapon attack. And just like a weapon attack, you can make as many as you have unlocked. Which would be 2 at level 5 if you're a martial class such as Fighter or Paladin.

Whats happening here, is mostly, RAW.
Eldritch Blast Level 5= 2 separate attacks in one action, which is fair, and raw.
This means Agonizing Blast applies TWICE. Meaning the Charisma modifier of +4, is applied twice. Once per beam. This is normal, and is intended, and is very balanced because any regular weapon attack was already doing this (Fighters make two weapon attacks at level 5, adding their strength modifier twice.)

In other words.
Agonizing Blast merely allows this cantrip to be treated like a weapon attack.
Theres no other difference.


Whats Broken:
Adding the damage modifier a 3rd and 4th time are not appropriate and is a simple bug. Its adding an extra 8 damage. This is far from broken, and, while its a bug, is not going to ruin the game or end the world.

It'll be ok. I promise. Think of it as a way to make up for all the times you rolled a 1 on damage.

^This. The extra +8 damage should exist. It getting an addition +8 due to magic items procing shouldn't happen, but that is an issue that was occurring prior to this patch. Gale was doing 40 damage with magic missile last patch prior to even being level 5.

As a point of comparison, a cleric hitting 2 enemies with their spiritual guardian is ~27 damage for just standing next to the enemy. A barbarian with GWM and the starting fire greatsword can average ~61 damage a turn if they are hitting their attacks.

[WeenerTuck813]

No.

It should be applied 2x - once per beam.

It’s applying 6x
Once per beam, hex, and lightning damage.

This accounts for +16 damage more than RAW and effectively doubles the damage of Eldritch blast.

That makes warlocks OP. I say this such that I’m simply relaying the message that it’s fun to play Warlock right now..

I’m not complaining, I’m not nitpicking, and it’s certainly not a minor buff.

[Indure]

"9 dam (5+4 *AGONIZING BLAST A* - beam 1
13 dam (9+4 *AGONIZING BLAST B*) - beam 2
4 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* A)
5 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* B)"

Is this not what is happening? Two beams should be 2 procs of hex and 2 procs of agonizing blast?

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

"9 dam (5+4 *AGONIZING BLAST A* - beam 1
13 dam (9+4 *AGONIZING BLAST B*) - beam 2
4 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* A)
5 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* B)"

Is this not what is happening? Two beams should be 2 procs of hex and 2 procs of agonizing blast?

No.

Agonizing blast is supposed to proc once per beam of Eldritch blast.

It’s currently procing on each independent source of damage per Eldritch blast.

I made a post earlier outlining how it should work vs how it is working.

It should be:

(EB + Ag Blast + Hex + Lightning damage ) Per beam

It’s currently (EB + AB + hex + AB + Lightning +AB ) per beam

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Jiren, The Strongest:

you're completely mischaracterizing whats happening.
He's only getting +Charisma from Hex damage, with two beams, this means he's getting a total of 8 damage more than he should. This could be as high as 10 damage if he had 20 charisma, and if a warlock doesnt have maxed charisma and only has say 14 or 16 then its only 4 or 6 extra damage

You're acting like he's getting 20 extra damage. He's not. He's getting 8. 10 at charisma 20.

Whats Broken:
Adding the damage modifier a 3rd and 4th time are not appropriate and is a simple bug. Its adding an extra 8 damage. This is far from broken, and, while its a bug, is not going to ruin the game or end the world.

It'll be ok. I promise. Think of it as a way to make up for all the times you rolled a 1 on damage.

It’s procing on each independent damage source, meaning a +5 Cha mod on 2 beams of Eldritch blast is providing +30 damage instead of +10 if you have hex and the lightning staff

Should be:

(1d10+5+1d6+1)x2
For a total of
16-44 damage

Currently is:

(1d10+5+1d6+5+1+5)x2
For a total of
36-64 damage

So, if I’m acting like he’s getting an extra twenty damage, it’s because he *IS*

Additionally - comparing a Free cantrip with range to a barbarian using GWM which either misses often or requires setup casting for Crits and has no range seems disingenuous

[Indure]

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

"9 dam (5+4 *AGONIZING BLAST A* - beam 1
13 dam (9+4 *AGONIZING BLAST B*) - beam 2
4 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* A)
5 dam (Hex)
4 dam (*AGONIZING BLAST* B)"

Is this not what is happening? Two beams should be 2 procs of hex and 2 procs of agonizing blast?

No.

Agonizing blast is supposed to proc once per beam of Eldritch blast.

It’s currently procing on each independent source of damage per Eldritch blast.

I made a post earlier outlining how it should work vs how it is working.

It should be:

(EB + Ag Blast + Hex + Lightning damage ) Per beam

It’s currently (EB + AB + hex + AB + Lightning +AB ) per beam

Thanks for the clarification. Your original post made it seem like it was:
(EB + AB + hex) + (EB + AB + hex).

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

Thanks for the clarification. Your original post made it seem like it was:
(EB + AB + hex) + (EB + AB + hex).

Yah I tried to go back and edit it - seems like most everyone wasn’t getting what I meant.

I should have been more clear initially.

[Indure]

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Additionally - comparing a Free cantrip with range to a barbarian using GWM which either misses often or requires setup casting for Crits and has no range seems disingenuous

It is not as disingenuous as it sounds. A lvl 5 Berserker in BG3 has 3 attacks per round while raging. All berserker attacks while raging can be done with advantage. With a ~7 to hit they are going to be connecting with enemies often.

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Additionally - comparing a Free cantrip with range to a barbarian using GWM which either misses often or requires setup casting for Crits and has no range seems disingenuous

It is not as disingenuous as it sounds. A lvl 5 Berserker in BG3 has 3 attacks per round while raging. All berserker attacks while raging can be done with advantage. With a ~7 to hit they are going to be connecting with enemies often.

But that’s a lot of qualifiers.

To be fair

First off, they’re getting adv through reckless attacks which mean all enemy attacks have adv against them until next turn.

They also have to be in melee range.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to do that kind of damage in any other way - but gifting a warlock 2-4 extra agonizing blast procs makes them a killer with a free-resource Eldritch Blast.

Consider that what you’re pointing out is that a Warlock now is damaging like a 3 attack raging Berzerker barbarian with GWM and reckless attacks…with their ranged cantrip.

[KOHb]

Haven't noticed extra excess damage at first.

OP is right — it's totally bugged.
It must add CHA only once per ray (agonizing blast). Instead, CHA modifier is added too much times.

Also, another overpower (bug) — you may cast EB twice (4 rays) with haste buff :P

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

It is not as disingenuous as it sounds. A lvl 5 Berserker in BG3 has 3 attacks per round while raging. All berserker attacks while raging can be done with advantage. With a ~7 to hit they are going to be connecting with enemies often.

Try haste above it. It's totally broken atm :)

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Criminal Horse:

Haven't noticed extra excess damage.

OP is right — it's totally bugged.
It must add CHA only once per ray (agonizing blast). Instead, CHA modifier is added too much times.

Also, another overpower (bug) — you may cast EB twice (4 rays) with haste buff :P

Escrito originalmente por Indure:

It is not as disingenuous as it sounds. A lvl 5 Berserker in BG3 has 3 attacks per round while raging. All berserker attacks while raging can be done with advantage. With a ~7 to hit they are going to be connecting with enemies often.

Try haste above it. It's totally broken atm :)

That’s actually correctly implemented. Haste is amazing on a warlock.

But RAW that’s correct.

Each Action shoots X# of rays, based on level. It’s not like melee where it’s an attack + extra attack. It’s 1 cast that shoots X# of rays.

My introduction to D&D was Curse of Strahd and I played warlock. Our caster (I think he was a sorcerer?) used to haste me often and watch me just blast mobs.

[Yojo0o]

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Escrito originalmente por Criminal Horse:

Haven't noticed extra excess damage.

OP is right — it's totally bugged.
It must add CHA only once per ray (agonizing blast). Instead, CHA modifier is added too much times.

Also, another overpower (bug) — you may cast EB twice (4 rays) with haste buff :P



Try haste above it. It's totally broken atm :)

That’s actually correctly implemented. Haste is amazing on a warlock.

But RAW that’s correct.

Each Action shoots X# of rays, based on level. It’s not like melee where it’s an attack + extra attack. It’s 1 cast that shoots X# of rays.

My introduction to D&D was Curse of Strahd and I played warlock. Our caster (I think he was a sorcerer?) used to haste me often and watch me just blast mobs.

5e Haste doesn't allow multiple spells to be cast, is it worded differently in BG3?

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Yojo0o:

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

That’s actually correctly implemented. Haste is amazing on a warlock.

But RAW that’s correct.

Each Action shoots X# of rays, based on level. It’s not like melee where it’s an attack + extra attack. It’s 1 cast that shoots X# of rays.

My introduction to D&D was Curse of Strahd and I played warlock. Our caster (I think he was a sorcerer?) used to haste me often and watch me just blast mobs.

5e Haste doesn't allow multiple spells to be cast, is it worded differently in BG3?

No it’s not worded differently, but Eldritch Blast is 1 spell

It just fires more beams based on your characters level. So haste does actually double your beams

[Yojo0o]

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

Escrito originalmente por Yojo0o:

5e Haste doesn't allow multiple spells to be cast, is it worded differently in BG3?

No it’s not worded differently, but Eldritch Blast is 1 spell

It just fires more beams based on your characters level. So haste does actually double your beams

I'm not following.

Level 5 Eldritch Blast fires two beams. Haste doesn't increase your character level, nor does it allow you to cast a second spell, so how do you get more beams?

[WeenerTuck813]

Escrito originalmente por Yojo0o:

Escrito originalmente por WeenerTuck813:

No it’s not worded differently, but Eldritch Blast is 1 spell

It just fires more beams based on your characters level. So haste does actually double your beams

I'm not following.

Level 5 Eldritch Blast fires two beams. Haste doesn't increase your character level, nor does it allow you to cast a second spell, so how do you get more beams?

Oh sorry I misunderstood.

It allows you to take another action.
Eldritch blast is a cantrip, not a full spell

So you can cast Eldritch blast AND fire ball, or Eldritch blast x2 in a turn