Hey Larian, you can't crit fail SKILL CHECKS ffs!

[Starwight/ttv]

NOTE: This first part before the dotted lines is from the Early Access period. Topic is still relevant as this is still an issue with the game, however see edit below the dotted lines for more up to date information with current game updates.

DC 0 wisdom check. Proficient in wisdom. Attempt to use the console to free Shadowheart. Should have a plus 2, so the min. I can roll is a 3--so I should succeed right?

WRONG because Larian is using the ridiculously stupid idea of crit failing skill checks. I am for homebrew but that is a stupid homebrew rule and should be in the options to change. Per RAW, you cannot CRIT FAIL A SKILLCHECK.

-------

EDIT: Hoooo boy, this suddenly blew up again out of nowhere; and I am glad! Because Larian needs to knock this crap off.

Okay, so there are a few things to mention in this edit. I am leaving the original post up for posterity, but some things have changed since I originally posted this in early access; there are also some arguments I didn't make or articulate well, and I am rectifying this.


So first thing is first--Larian ditched DC 0 skill checks as far as I can tell. I'm all the way in Act 3, and the lowest I've seen is DC2. So I think that DC 0 skill checks are no longer a thing. That said, the points I am about to make still stand.

For one, why the hells should everyone have a 5% chance to fail all of their skills--ESPECIALLY those they are proficient or have expertise in? Does an expert chef burn the steak he is cooking 5% of the time? Does an expert truck driver get into an accident 5% of the time? Does an expert football player critically fail and break his ankle trying to kick the ball 5% of the time? Of course not. It's ludicrous. That's not an expert, that's not being proficient at said skills. That's a 5% chance of derping for NO REASON whatsoever. There is a reason this is not a popular houserule (contrary to some of these misinformed comments).

For two: having a 5% chance to fail every single skill check in the game defeats the purpose of building to be really good at x skill. If I take expertise in persuasion, I have maxed out Charisma, and I have a number of other modifiers, I might have my modifiers so high that even if I roll a 1, I am hitting a DC 15. So by rules as written, if I am faced with a DC 10 persuasion check, I should not be able to fail it. I spent my feats, ASIs, and class features specifically to build to that point--and yet, because of this dumbass "nat 1's critically fail skill checks," my time and effort is wasted, because even though I met the DC, I still fail.

WotC designed their game in such a way that you could build to be experts and have a difficult time failing skill checks. No 5% chance of failing. That is part of the design, Rules as Written. Yes, attack rolls can crit fail and crit succeed--that makes sense, with how dynamic battles are, and considering that turns, no character is standing idle--they are trying to get the upper hand. This same policy makes zero sense for skill checks, and so as written, there are no crits one way or the other.

The opposite is also true; because nat 20s will auto succeed, regardless of your modifiers, theoretically someone could just save scum until they nat 20 a really difficult skill check. It would be annoying as crap, but it is true. In both of these cases, the game is rewarding save scumming as opposed to living with consequences of their decisions.

If I didn't build to be good at XYZ skill and failed it--THAT is my punishment. I should be rewarded for building my character in such a way that I can meet the vast majority of skillchecks. But the game decides, no matter what I do, I have a 5% chance to auto fail (or auto succeed).

If Larian is going to insist on this ridiculous house ruling they should at least make it a choice. I want my character builds to matter, and my skill choices to matter--not be unhinged just because I rolled a 1, still hit a 16, and failed a DC 2 skill check. It's ridiculous.

[Lepakko]

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Escrito originalmente por Lepakko:

But where you pulled this data? You have collected data on every countries D&D group? You are doing the same thing what you complaining him doing. BG3 have lots of changed to tabletop system. They pick system what fits for they game. Im sure there is mod what makes game more for your liking.

Oh idk, maybe the vast majority across multiple DnD groups, reddit, dnd forums, official WoTC DMs, DMs on roll20, DMs who actually charge for their services. Basically any DM who actually understands the game and isn't brand new.

You are first one who had this huge problem of this matter. Im sure if lots of people hated this rule as much as you. We saw people talking more about it. And it had been on the game on day one. Even devs played D&D.. still they put this rule in.

People often pick they D&D groups to fit they own likings. So its natural you wanted join groups who liked rules you like.

Again. BG3 is not tabletop game. Its a video game. They have changed lots of rules from Tabletop D&D.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

How about you go outside, take a deep breath and cool off a bit.
If you are that experienced of a gm you should be aware, that there is not 1 way to play D&D. There are tons of ways. What's important is that the GM and their players are on the same page.
It's even in the DMG, as you should know:
From the Introduction of the DMG:

So please stop that gatekeeping BS. Seems I know more about the game then you think I do.

And YOU should be aware that there is a very good reason that the no autofail on a SKILL CHECK is a thing. I am pointing out why it shouldn't be, I am pointing out how any resource you look up on the subject will tell you not to homebrew nat 1s to autofail skillchecks. There is a reason for it. Stop being so conceited as to think you know better than alllllllllllllllllllll of the GMs out there who say not to do it.

It should be a *choice.* Period. Fin. Full stop. And not the default option. There is no 1 right way to play DnD, but there sure as hell are wrong ways to play.

You are claiming in this very post there is only 1 way to play the game right in this regard, while at the same time saying there isn't only 1 way to play it right, and everyone else is wrong. You really should take a deep breath, dude.

[Starwight/ttv]

Escrito originalmente por Lepakko:

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Oh idk, maybe the vast majority across multiple DnD groups, reddit, dnd forums, official WoTC DMs, DMs on roll20, DMs who actually charge for their services. Basically any DM who actually understands the game and isn't brand new.

You are first one who had this huge problem of this matter. Im sure if lots of people hated this rule as much as you. We saw people talking more about it. And it had been on the game on day one. Even devs played D&D.. still they put this rule in.

People often pick they D&D groups to fit they own likings. So its natural you wanted join groups who liked rules you like.

Again. BG3 is not tabletop game. Its a video game. They have changed lots of rules from Tabletop D&D.

Obviously you're too lazy to actually look into the matter. I'm not arguing this with you, this is widely seen as a bad homebrew rule and there is a reason everyone is advised not to do this.

[Sensui-Tomo]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/08/core-rules-changes-in-one-dds-new-playtest.html its no longer for just attacks, it affects saving throws and skill checks

[tkis]

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Escrito originalmente por cpeters9153:

Apparently you can fail skill checks and it seems they're going with the homebrew rule that will just become a base rule for the next edition of D&D. If you dont like it, maybe add a mod in the future that removes that function.

And where has WotC said that nat 1s will be auto fails on skill checks? Please do provide that, because I have seen nothing of the sort in any of the OneDnD info we have so far.

Failed dice rolls are also a little more forgiving. Suggested rules for a critical failure (rolling a 1 on the d20) say to grant the player Inspiration, allowing advantage on a later roll to help soften the blow – and granting Inspiration after rolling a 20 as well, to celebrate the success

exemplary source: https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/one-dandd/how-to/one-dnd-changes

[Starwight/ttv]

Escrito originalmente por cpeters9153:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/08/core-rules-changes-in-one-dds-new-playtest.html its no longer for just attacks, it affects saving throws and skill checks

Escrito originalmente por tkis:

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

And where has WotC said that nat 1s will be auto fails on skill checks? Please do provide that, because I have seen nothing of the sort in any of the OneDnD info we have so far.

Failed dice rolls are also a little more forgiving. Suggested rules for a critical failure (rolling a 1 on the d20) say to grant the player Inspiration, allowing advantage on a later roll to help soften the blow – and granting Inspiration after rolling a 20 as well, to celebrate the success

exemplary source: https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/one-dandd/how-to/one-dnd-changes

Okay so with this, at *least* they are giving inspiration to balance it out, and it still makes it better than Larian's system. Also bearing in mind this is OneDnD, where BG3 is following the 5e system, where it shouldn't follow those rules.

I personally don't like this OneDnD change, but if that's the core ruling for the next edition awesome, let it apply to a game following that edition (Which is probably still more than a year out).

Of course also bear in mind they will probably tweak some other things such as some of the class features to work with this I'm sure. None of which is in current 5e at this time.

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Escrito originalmente por Lepakko:

You are first one who had this huge problem of this matter. Im sure if lots of people hated this rule as much as you. We saw people talking more about it. And it had been on the game on day one. Even devs played D&D.. still they put this rule in.

People often pick they D&D groups to fit they own likings. So its natural you wanted join groups who liked rules you like.

Again. BG3 is not tabletop game. Its a video game. They have changed lots of rules from Tabletop D&D.

Obviously you're too lazy to actually look into the matter. I'm not arguing this with you, this is widely seen as a bad homebrew rule and there is a reason everyone is advised not to do this.

Escrito originalmente por cpeters9153:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/08/core-rules-changes-in-one-dds-new-playtest.html its no longer for just attacks, it affects saving throws and skill checks

Lol, who's to lazy now? And obviously all dmg sources say it's a bad idea, except the next version of DND....Dude, you really need to take a breath of fresh air.
(And yes, I didn't take a look at onednd yet. my players want to stick to 5e for the time being...) ^^

[Starwight/ttv]

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

Escrito originalmente por Starwight/ttv:

Obviously you're too lazy to actually look into the matter. I'm not arguing this with you, this is widely seen as a bad homebrew rule and there is a reason everyone is advised not to do this.

Escrito originalmente por cpeters9153:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/08/core-rules-changes-in-one-dds-new-playtest.html its no longer for just attacks, it affects saving throws and skill checks

Lol, who's to lazy now? And obviously all dmg sources say it's a bad idea, except the next version of DND....Dude, you really need to take a breath of fresh air.
(And yes, I didn't take a look at onednd yet. my players want to stick to 5e for the time being...) ^^

And is the next version of DnD 5e? No. Is the next version anywhere near release? No. So the point still stands. They are obviously balancing the next version of DnD around that. THIS one isn't. Fin.

[TrueWarlord真の武]

This is a terrible house rule, and it is a SHAME that Larian is using it in an official 5e licensed product. Shame is the best word I have to describe how very little it seems Larian team knows D&D 5e and how out of touch they are with what the community wants.

NAT 1 for ability checks (there are no “skill checks” in D&D 5e) and saving throws is as bad as bad could be.

EDIT = One D&D is in BETA, nothing there is "official" till it launched officially. Obviously.

[Starwight/ttv]

Escrito originalmente por TrueWarlord真の武:

This is a terrible house rule, and it is a SHAME that Larian is using it in an official 5e licensed product. Shame is the best word I have to describe how very little it seems Larian team knows D&D 5e and how out of touch they are with what the community wants.

NAT 1 for ability checks (there are no “skill checks” in D&D 5e) and saving throws is as bad as bad could be.

Common nomenclature is to call something like a persuasion check, survival, check, etc. a skill check tho. But yeah, I mean obviously I am in agreement with you on this. I wouldn't mind Larian using it as an optional rule, but it should be just that--optional. Right up there with the weighted dice.

[tkis]

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

(And yes, I didn't take a look at onednd yet. my players want to stick to 5e for the time being...) ^^

I never thought i would take a look at d&d beyond 3.5, especially after a horror which 4th appeared to be for my player base. But BG3 and Solasta really made me take a closer look at 5e, and i like it. Some things are better than 3.5 for my taste, some worse, but in general it is an easy to use system, with sufficient depth. One D&D though somehow smells of same dead-end approach as 4th, time will tell...

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Escrito originalmente por TrueWarlord真の武:

EDIT = One D&D is in BETA, nothing there is "official" till it launched officially. Obviously.

While this is true, it still shows, that they obviously think it's a good Idea, and not a terrible one as was implied earlier.
And I see it that I am a player at Larians Table. So I either accept their houserules, I leave the table or I search for a good way to communicating with them.
Shouting at the "GM" and calling them stupid etc. is certainly the worst way to go about it....if it was a real table you'd be thrown out of the room very quickly.

Edit: And shouting at other players of that table and calling them names etc who simply don't share your opinion would get you kicked out of the room even faster...

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

Escrito originalmente por TrueWarlord真の武:

EDIT = One D&D is in BETA, nothing there is "official" till it launched officially. Obviously.

While this is true, it still shows, that they obviously think it's a good Idea, and not a terrible one as was implied earlier.
And I see it that I am a player at Larians Table. So I either accept their houserules, I leave the table or I search for a good way to communicating with them.
Shouting at the "GM" and calling them stupid etc. is certainly the worst way to go about it....if it was a real table you'd be thrown out of the room very quickly.

If it was a licensed OFFICIAL D&D 5e Adventurers League table, I would EXPECT it to use D&D 5e rules and material, not any kind of Unearthed Arcana/ BETA TEST material or rule. And if you're a GM and you don't like players who want official rules, stay away from official gaming. As someone who actually beta tested D&D Next and used to GM official game day campaigns in my town, I know what I'm talking about.

But sure, GM Jon Snow decides what house rules he is using while GMing for his friends in his mamma basement. Official gaming? NOT.

[tkis]

Escrito originalmente por TrueWarlord真の武:

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

While this is true, it still shows, that they obviously think it's a good Idea, and not a terrible one as was implied earlier.
And I see it that I am a player at Larians Table. So I either accept their houserules, I leave the table or I search for a good way to communicating with them.
Shouting at the "GM" and calling them stupid etc. is certainly the worst way to go about it....if it was a real table you'd be thrown out of the room very quickly.

If it was a licensed OFFICIAL D&D 5e Adventurers League table, I would EXPECT it to use D&D 5e rules and material, not any kind of Unearthed Arcana/ BETA TEST material or rule. And if you're a GM and you don't like players who want official rules, stay away from official gaming. As someone who actually beta tested D&D Next and used to GM official game day campaigns in my town, I know what I'm talking about.

But sure, GM Jon Snow decides what house rules he is using while GMing for his friends in his mamma basement. Official gaming? NOT.

Basement with friends over OFFICIAL gaming anytime :) 80ies nostalgia is just too strong to resist :)

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Escrito originalmente por TrueWarlord真の武:

Escrito originalmente por (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Rusty ♥:

While this is true, it still shows, that they obviously think it's a good Idea, and not a terrible one as was implied earlier.
And I see it that I am a player at Larians Table. So I either accept their houserules, I leave the table or I search for a good way to communicating with them.
Shouting at the "GM" and calling them stupid etc. is certainly the worst way to go about it....if it was a real table you'd be thrown out of the room very quickly.

If it was a licensed OFFICIAL D&D 5e Adventurers League table, I would EXPECT it to use D&D 5e rules and material, not any kind of Unearthed Arcana/ BETA TEST material or rule. And if you're a GM and you don't like players who want official rules, stay away from official gaming. As someone who actually beta tested D&D Next and used to GM official game day campaigns in my town, I know what I'm talking about.

But sure, GM Jon Snow decides what house rules he is using while GMing for his friends in his mamma basement. Official gaming? NOT.

So having fun officially is better then having fun with your friends in the basement?
You sure make it sound that way...
Only those who have fun officially do have a right to have an opinion. And note I repeatedly said I am not using that rule myself. I just illustrated the arguments brought forth by those that like that rule. Yet I am attacked for not knowing stuff etc...
If that is how "official betatesters" behave etc I'll gladly stay in my basement.

Edit: You certainly would make a "great" ambassador for D&D and tolerance. *thumbsup*