ASTARIONS ASCENSION THOUGHTS

[infernodope]

Right, so when it comes to my companions story and there is a cinematic between them and another person of their story, I always try to let them do the talking and decide what they want to do. Most of the times the character will follow the good path and do what they believe is right. In Astarion's case though i was really expecting him to stop his ascension on his own free will without my persuasion, so I let him do as he please which obviously turned out bad.. so I had to load my prev save and persuade him to stop. That makes me think that Astarion actually wants the ascension to happen, that is what he truly desires...Now am split in between of maybe i should have let things move on with the ascension and not try to stop him in the middle! What are your guys thoughts?

[seeker1]

It depends on your POV, of course, but it isn't always the best to just assume your companions will make the best choices if you leave their decisions to themselves; as many are affected by trauma.

Again - from my POV - I think it's good you can influence their decisions if you want to, and in the right direction. (wink)


For Astarion, this is NOT replaying the master/slave dynamic by becoming the new Cazador and recruiting new spawn. He may be free, he's just going to be making many more versions of himself from new spawn he converts/recruits/victimizes.

He definitely WANTS to do it, he needs to be talked out of it - and he will thank you for doing so later. From a purely mechanical point of view, his vanilla ascension doesn't give him such a great upgrade anyway, but that's not the RP reason to decline it.

[Wiegs]

If he didn't want to do it there wouldn't be a persuasion check to stop him in the first place. But him wanting it doesn't mean it's the best thing for him and maybe he would even come to regret it in the end. We all make stupid decisions in life, and the game's writing is reflecting that too sometimes in the choices it offers us and our party.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by seeker1:

It depends on your POV, of course, but it isn't always the best to just assume your companions will make the best choices if you leave their decisions to themselves; as many are affected by trauma.

Again - from my POV - I think it's good you can influence their decisions if you want to, and in the right direction. (wink)


For Astarion, this is NOT replaying the master/slave dynamic by becoming the new Cazador and recruiting new spawn. He may be free, he's just going to be making many more versions of himself from new spawn he converts/recruits/victimizes.

He definitely WANTS to do it, he needs to be talked out of it - and he will thank you for doing so later. From a purely mechanical point of view, his vanilla ascension doesn't give him such a great upgrade anyway, but that's not the RP reason to decline it.

Pretty much makes him the by far best monk in the game so has a huge impact mechanically speaking

[Tresh]

When you succeed the insight-check on him, the narrator tells you that he is terrified at that moment.
Without a nudge in the right direction, giving in to that terror and taking the path that he believes will allow him to never be scared again makes perfect sense.

That being said, ascended Astarion is still absolutely a true version of him, as is spawn Astarion. He's just a little more volatile about it than most other companions.
I see him listening to you and not going through with the ritual as a huge display of courage that he probably didn't even think himself capable of until you showed him that he could, indeed, do that.

[Oonayah]

If you want to know what Astarion will do entirely of his own free will...

park Tav/Durge and the rest of the crew out of range and have him approach the coffin alone. While it can be argued that the lack of the player's presence means the dialogue is unavailable and so he's forced along a default path, it does still feel appropriate. I was worried about the persuasion checks only to discover that my Tav was out of range when my need for RP-comes-first sent Astarion over to fetch Cazador's carcass because I was halfway out the door when I realized that we hadn't actually "won" yet.

Now can someone tell me by what mechanic the bastard is truly dead because no one stopped to chop his head off.

[NightingaleMuse]

Here's some food for thought:

Persuading Shadowheart to not kill Nightsong: 30 DC
Persuading Laezel to side with/go against Vlaakith: 30 DC
Persuading Gale to skip out on meeting Mystra: 30 DC
Persuading Astarion to not do the ascension ritual: 18 DC

Astarion does not have the same level of conviction for his goals as the others do and is easier to sway.

I did test something out though that had an interesting result. I basically parked Tav outside so it was only Astarion and my two other companions for the scene. He asked them to assist with doing the ritual. They automatically refused. He defaulted to killing Cazador and then left the party after permanently trapping the spawn.

I say play it out the way you think feels right for the character in accordance with your playthrough.

[Chadwick Strongpants]

Originally posted by NightingaleMuse:

Here's some food for thought:

Persuading Shadowheart to not kill Nightsong: 30 DC
Persuading Laezel to side with/go against Vlaakith: 30 DC
Persuading Gale to skip out on meeting Mystra: 30 DC
Persuading Astarion to not do the ascension ritual: 18 DC

Astarion does not have the same level of conviction for his goals as the others do and is easier to sway.

I did test something out though that had an interesting result. I basically parked Tav outside so it was only Astarion and my two other companions for the scene. He asked them to assist with doing the ritual. They automatically refused. He defaulted to killing Cazador and then left the party after permanently trapping the spawn.

I say play it out the way you think feels right for the character in accordance with your playthrough.

I might be wrong on this, but I think how high some of their DCs are depends on your approval rating. At very high values, it actually reads something like, "relationship is exceptional and that character is very easily influenced by you", if you hover over the bar. In your playthrough Astarion may just have had an exceptional relationship with you.

[NightingaleMuse]

Originally posted by Chadwick Strongpants:

I might be wrong on this, but I think how high some of their DCs are depends on your approval rating. At very high values, it actually reads something like, "relationship is exceptional and that character is very easily influenced by you", if you hover over the bar. In your playthrough Astarion may just have had an exceptional relationship with you.

Shadowheart was 100. Laezel was 90. Astarion was 85. I didn't take into account what Gale's was because I didn't expect it.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by NightingaleMuse:

Here's some food for thought:

Persuading Shadowheart to not kill Nightsong: 30 DC
Persuading Laezel to side with/go against Vlaakith: 30 DC
Persuading Gale to skip out on meeting Mystra: 30 DC
Persuading Astarion to not do the ascension ritual: 18 DC

Astarion does not have the same level of conviction for his goals as the others do and is easier to sway.

I did test something out though that had an interesting result. I basically parked Tav outside so it was only Astarion and my two other companions for the scene. He asked them to assist with doing the ritual. They automatically refused. He defaulted to killing Cazador and then left the party after permanently trapping the spawn.

I say play it out the way you think feels right for the character in accordance with your playthrough.

There is a DC check for going against Vlaakith? I did not even know that was a thing how dose that happen? I only got 380ish hours in the game but non of my runs has that required a DC check. She always doses that on her own my understanding that is her default.

[infernodope]

Originally posted by seeker1:

It depends on your POV, of course, but it isn't always the best to just assume your companions will make the best choices if you leave their decisions to themselves; as many are affected by trauma.

Again - from my POV - I think it's good you can influence their decisions if you want to, and in the right direction. (wink)


For Astarion, this is NOT replaying the master/slave dynamic by becoming the new Cazador and recruiting new spawn. He may be free, he's just going to be making many more versions of himself from new spawn he converts/recruits/victimizes.

He definitely WANTS to do it, he needs to be talked out of it - and he will thank you for doing so later. From a purely mechanical point of view, his vanilla ascension doesn't give him such a great upgrade anyway, but that's not the RP reason to decline it.

hmm yeaa i kinda get it now... I just was so surprised at that moment.. in my mind I was like .. he is going to stop any moment now, I just know it.. but the whole ascension happened and i was left with surprised pikachu face.

What do you mean vanilla ascension btw? first time am hearing the term.

[infernodope]

Originally posted by Wiegs:

If he didn't want to do it there wouldn't be a persuasion check to stop him in the first place. But him wanting it doesn't mean it's the best thing for him and maybe he would even come to regret it in the end. We all make stupid decisions in life, and the game's writing is reflecting that too sometimes in the choices it offers us and our party.

I get what you mean but on that moment he was like please help me do it, it was his first thought that came to mind! He didn't think of any of the spawn that will die so I thought that might be what he really actually wants! I never butted in Shadowheart's decisions and she followed the good path as well as Laezel so I was convinced that he will do the same. Shadowheart had a lot of trauma and hard childhood like Astarion as well so really idk.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by infernodope:

What do you mean vanilla ascension btw? first time am hearing the term.

There's a vampire ascendant mod that lets you a) "cheat" the game and make Astarion ascendant early (basically you just read a scroll) but then b) doesn't mean he acts otherwise like "ascended" Astarion would later in the game if he went through the ritual ... anyway c) it gives him a far better "suite" of ascendant vampire powers.

Vanilla means "unmodded".

[Kappa]

Astarion is what invalidated our ( me and my other 3 friends ) dark urge run.

Something like “oh no, the dark urge killed a couple innocents” and then “I sacrifice 7000 souls to ascend thanks”

[Stoickk]

Y'all leave that wingless mosquito alive? Weird...

[Gaius]

I did both in diferent playthroughs, IMHO depends on your head lore. I stoped him from mascending when doing a good playehtough and allowed in another that was basically the end justify the means to save the world, where I also got the slayer form to my MC.

I have to say tough, his ascension is THE best evil scene in the whole game, and his ascended form +1D10 necrotic to any attack isn't half bad as well...