Decision fatigue: the issue(s) with Act 3

[LexingtonSeal]

Remember BG1’s ‘baldur’s gate’? Yeah, I know – some just played the cooler version where it’s all 3D, and has cooler things like dragonborn and owlcats and submarines and stuff.

Anyway, BG1’s city map has about 5 zones. BG2’s Amn has 8.

Whoa, lame dude – lmao etc.

Yeah, except they actually didn’t bore you to death like BG3’s ‘epic’ bloated mess.

Decision fatigue is a real thing, if you google it. BG3’s city prides itself on all the dozens of ‘uniquely named’ citizens, and their unique dialogue…that’s about as fascinating as hearing your neighbour Joe comment on the lousy weather.

You can’t tell who actually has something quest-worthy to say, so you end up randomly clicking dozens upon dozens of bores, only to be greeted with some tripe about who-knows-what.

Yeah, the big-breasted Asian girl in the slinky, shimmering dress kinda hinted that she might have an actual quest to pursue (don’t ask me why) – but they’re not all telegraphed, are they?

I don’t know how many nobodies I clicked tonight, hoping it might lead somewhere. It lead nowhere. And it’s a big, big city. There are lots of nobodies.

BG1’s baldur’s gate didn’t overstay its welcome. It was just the essentials, and was more memorable as a result. BG2’s Amn was the same: it didn’t wear you out with a million different things to click. It was tightly designed, entertaining and easily memorised.

Besides that, does anyone really enjoy RPG cities? The Witcher 3’s Novigrad was almost as unpleasant as BG3’s city, but its saving grace was the quest markers (= reduction of potential decisions = good) and the fact that nobodies weren’t clickable around every corner. They were just ‘flavour’, yabbering in the background.

They’ve turned BG3’s city into a proper chore, a real sprawling homework assignment. This is something you turn off for days on end because it seems interminably pointless.

My hat is off to whoever explored this whole thing – that is some serious achievement. I’m walking around, opening doors, going up stairs, going down again, clicking people, they say nothing…I exit.

This gets a 10/10 from every critic on the planet?

I was told it was also a woke-fest. At least if it was even that, it would be something to look forward to, just to take the mickey out of it. But it’s only woke-lite, if even.

[LexingtonSeal]

Originally posted by SoloQ:

Yeah again, the point falls flat. There are plenty of NPCs that have quests to give out in Baldur's Gate and it's up to you if you want to care enough to do them.
Maybe this Baldur's Gate game just isn't your cup of tea. It's fine, every series has one or two.

Talking about not getting a point. You read when you were a kid and it blew your mind. YOU WERE A CHILD. Everything blows a child's mind. You can explain why the sky is blue and it'll blow their mind...
Again, you don't understand context at all.

Your rants about the kid metaphor could use context. Do you do irony mate? There’s a thing called a preface – if you can include that before the rant, it’ll assist the coherence of what you’re trying to relate (I have my doubts you’ve any point to make, to be frank, but keep shouting if it makes you feel good).

You’re boring me with paragraph 1. Are you even reading the thread title, or the comments?

Do you need the ‘baby english’ version? Here it is: there are too many NPCs in the city of baldur’s gate that do not have anything to say, and do not have quests to give, and you have to click through dozens and dozens of these – as they are all homogenous – to find an actual quest.

Let me know if that needs further clarification – I would’ve thought it’s the most straightforward thing to understand.

And yeah, your comment assuming I hated all of BG3. Mate, the title – it says Act 3 only. The content of the post is also referring to same thing. Not the whole game, is it?

You should probably give it a break at this point. You’re making no sense and just come off as cankerous because someone doesn’t like the game you do. It’s a thing that happens in life.

You’ll be blocked if you’re going to keep huffing and puffing without actually making logical sense, or reading what is being written.

[Grumpy]

So what do you want in this thread? People like you so you can have your own echo chamber ? People who aren't like you but you disregard their points ? If no one want to move from their position , better let this thread die then.

[Axeface]

Originally posted by a.out:

Originally posted by Axeface:

Yep, I have the same problem in act 3, considering just uninstalling the game and never finishing it. Its very tiresome. All of these named npcs with a single line of dialogue, even the time it takes for the camera to switch to and from its position is starting to feel like an eternity.
And the distractions are EVERYWHERE, literally cant move 3 steps without something else happening or someone saying something.

Sounds like a good thing. You too seem to suffer from burnout. I'd take a break from bg3 if I were you.

Btw, you also don't need to check all the marks. I'm pretty sure the game can be played with just a fraction of quests being solved.

I'm talking out of my rear end. I haven't even reached act 3 because I keep starting new campaigns for some reason. Might be a good thing after all the complaints I've read about act 3.

No I absolutely wont take a break, because if I do that I will forget things and feel compelled to restart.
This game suffers from bloat in act 3. It is sprawling and lacks focus.
I'll either suffer through it or never finish it.

[Clever Name]

I totally agree with the OP.

For the record, I'm experienced with these kinds of games; I've played all the classics in the genre. Planescape, Arcanum, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity OS, the original Fallouts, etc. I'm also familiar with tabletop RPG mechanics, i.e, not just video game adaptations of them.

The first act was overwhelming for me. It was too large of a map area with too much crap going on. It made me want to progress before fully exploring everything just to get to a new area; which is something I normally never do.

As an aside: what really pissed me off on my first playthrough, is how many quests are written (and displayed on the map) in such a way that you think they're able to be completed on your current map/area, when in fact they're in the next area or even further beyond. This resulted in wasted time trying to find things that weren't actually there.

Long story short, I ended up botching so many questlines and missing so much content in my first playthrough, I abandoned it after ~60 hours in act 3. It was admittedly idiotic for me to push that far ahead after knowingly ruining/missing so many questlines, but I wanted to experience the ending just so I'd know how to make my second playthrough 'perfect' or nearly so. Instead, act 3 bogged down so much, I couldn't stand the idea of finishing it.

I'm now on my second playthrough and in act 3. I'm pushing through it with the intent of skipping non-essential quests.

Like the OP, I initially talked to a lot of people on the street in Baldur's Gate. Not everybody, but in situations where there was a group of people and some guards, maybe having some kind of argument, I thought, being naturally conditioned to look for this kind of thing from other RPGs, that some minor side-quest might be available.

Nope.

There are many occasions where you see two people having a conversation about something that might be suspicious. On the docks, for example, two guys are talking about the fish smelling odd, and I'm looking for evidence of a sea creature in this area--but nothing results by talking to them, or at least one of them... oh no, I didn't talk to the other guy, maybe he had something important to say?!?!

See, that's the annoying part. There's way too much useless filler, which ends up blinding you to the normal 'THIS IS A QUEST' visual cues.

I'm guessing that it was, at least in part, a design choice to make quest-hunting seem more natural, but I think it went too far.

[Zackerie]

first there was no content in act 3, and now there is so much of it, the game is unenjoyable. Sounds like a you problem tbh.

[Kalvix]

It is a very definite issue with modern games and something I'm seeing in the city, and ye eventually you start not talking to anybody as you just can't be bothered anymore.

And ye you don't need to do all the quests, but I'd like to experience them all, and at a certain point if it becomes a chore you'll start just not wanting to play the game in general which is an issue.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

Remember BG1’s ‘baldur’s gate’? Yeah, I know – some just played the cooler version where it’s all 3D, and has cooler things like dragonborn and owlcats and submarines and stuff.

Anyway, BG1’s city map has about 5 zones. BG2’s Amn has 8.

Whoa, lame dude – lmao etc.

Yeah, except they actually didn’t bore you to death like BG3’s ‘epic’ bloated mess.

Decision fatigue is a real thing, if you google it. BG3’s city prides itself on all the dozens of ‘uniquely named’ citizens, and their unique dialogue…that’s about as fascinating as hearing your neighbour Joe comment on the lousy weather.

You can’t tell who actually has something quest-worthy to say, so you end up randomly clicking dozens upon dozens of bores, only to be greeted with some tripe about who-knows-what.

Yeah, the big-breasted Asian girl in the slinky, shimmering dress kinda hinted that she might have an actual quest to pursue (don’t ask me why) – but they’re not all telegraphed, are they?

I don’t know how many nobodies I clicked tonight, hoping it might lead somewhere. It lead nowhere. And it’s a big, big city. There are lots of nobodies.

BG1’s baldur’s gate didn’t overstay its welcome. It was just the essentials, and was more memorable as a result. BG2’s Amn was the same: it didn’t wear you out with a million different things to click. It was tightly designed, entertaining and easily memorised.

Besides that, does anyone really enjoy RPG cities? The Witcher 3’s Novigrad was almost as unpleasant as BG3’s city, but its saving grace was the quest markers (= reduction of potential decisions = good) and the fact that nobodies weren’t clickable around every corner. They were just ‘flavour’, yabbering in the background.

They’ve turned BG3’s city into a proper chore, a real sprawling homework assignment. This is something you turn off for days on end because it seems interminably pointless.

My hat is off to whoever explored this whole thing – that is some serious achievement. I’m walking around, opening doors, going up stairs, going down again, clicking people, they say nothing…I exit.

This gets a 10/10 from every critic on the planet?

I was told it was also a woke-fest. At least if it was even that, it would be something to look forward to, just to take the mickey out of it. But it’s only woke-lite, if even.

Beats me how people 10/10 this game man. The more I play it the lower my own personal review gets. I haven't even made it to act 3 because I've found Act 2 such a boring miserable slog of clicking random crap until some puzzle or other gets solved for basically no reward. The combat is boring, the itemization is terrible (mostly useless gimmeck items, the NPC are obnoxious, and 5e implementation is in every way worse than Solasta, and frankly if I wasn't committed to coop I'd have uninstalled it already.

Absolutely can NOT wait for this one to be over. Seriously going to think twice before making another promise to play through a game with someone.

By afternoon I continue my pleasant replay of the OG titles. By evening the dread of my next BG3 session sinks in. By night I put on my fake smile and try not to complain to much. By midnight I need booze to sleep to dispel the quiet rage of sitting through another 3 hours of this gamel. And it just... keeps...going...on...and on... Christ. I've never played through so much NOTHINGNESS in a single game.

The sad part is I started out liking "most" of act 1, but it just keeps getting worse. You don't even have loot to look forward to, just more arrows, and potions. I think we've replaced 3 items in total since the underdark.

[Kalvix]

Originally posted by zackerie:

first there was no content in act 3, and now there is so much of it, the game is unenjoyable. Sounds like a you problem tbh.

Honestly I prefer the last act to be small, it's how RPGs should be, the first act is huge with lots to do as you're just starting out and feel fresh, then as you progress areas should get smaller with less to do as you are reaching the point of just wanting to finish the game.

It's a worry I'm starting to have with Act3 honestly as theres so many buildings to go in and people to talk to that I feel like it'll end up as sprawling as the first act in things to do, and I don't want that, I want the last act to be maybe 1/2 the size of the first, a more compact experience of every game play mechanic and story element you've learned so far.

[fulf]

I don't think I can bear to make myself finish Act 3. Act 1 and 2 already felt somewhat scattered and unfocused but Act 3 is just a whole new level.

70+ hours in (not to mention a restart) and it still doesn't feel like the game's found its footing. Only thing that's kept me playing is the combat. Being that I'm max level and still using gear I found in Act 1 and 2 even on Tactician, that candle's burning fast. Not to mention that most of the fights are against humanoids with the same basic gimmicks for some reason? Like D&D doesn't have an extensive bestiary to play with.

Maybe I just don't like open world game design but at the same time DOS2 never made me feel this way even before Arx got "fixed".

Told myself I'd replay Kingmaker after beating BG3 as a palate-cleanse for this game's goofy writing and nonexistent moral choices but I might just hop right back into it now.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Originally posted by fulf:

I don't think I can bear to make myself finish Act 3. Act 1 and 2 already felt somewhat scattered and unfocused but Act 3 is just a whole new level.

70+ hours in (not to mention a restart) and it still doesn't feel like the game's found its footing. Only thing that's kept me playing is the combat. Being that I'm max level and still using gear I found in Act 1 and 2 even on Tactician, that candle's burning fast. Not to mention that most of the fights are against humanoids with the same basic gimmicks for some reason? Like D&D doesn't have an extensive bestiary to play with.

Maybe I just don't like open world game design but at the same time DOS2 never made me feel this way even before Arx got "fixed".

Told myself I'd replay Kingmaker after beating BG3 as a palate-cleanse for this game's goofy writing and nonexistent moral choices but I might just hop right back into it now.

I didn't even make it that far before booting up BG1 again. Think my BG1 playthrough on the side is the only thing keeping me sane atm lol. Buddy I'm playing with is super thorough and we're just about to roll up to Moonlight Towers.. 130 hours in. I feel like I need to go for a swim in the ocean... without the ability to swim.

On the bright side I've lost 25 lbs...

[Ronin Gamer]

Played the old games prior to 3 coming out, not a fan of them mechanics and rules wise, exploring was kind of basic too. Given the time it released this makes sense to an extent. Plenty of areas sure, but considering I didn't really enjoy playing them I didn't care to see every spot.
BG3 act 3, minus it's technically hiccups, didn't bother me in the slightest, and I quite enjoyed it, which is helped by a rules and mechanics set up that is more what I like to play.
If you didn't enjoy it, well sucks to be you, but that doesn't mean it was garbage. It just means it wasn't for you. Too many people can't seem to understand the difference between personal preference and that preference being a fact that somehow every single person MUST agree with because I came to that conclusion....

[Underprivileged White Male]

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Played the old games prior to 3 coming out, not a fan of them mechanics and rules wise, exploring was kind of basic too. Given the time in released this makes sense to an extent. Plenty of areas sure, but considering I didn't really enjoy playing them I didn't care to see every spot.
BG3 act 3, minus it's technically hiccups, didn't bother me in the slightest, and I quite enjoyed it, which is helped by a rules and mechanics set up that is more what I like to play.
If you didn't enjoy it, well sucks to be you, but that doesn't mean it was garbage. It just means it wasn't for you. Too many people can't seem to understand the difference between personal preference and that preference being a fact that somehow every single person MUST agree with because I came to that conclusion....

I agree with you. Your personal preference is that it isn't terrible. :P

If you want to debate objective points I'd be down to rag on it for a while though.

We can start with trap placement, and perception rolls.

[The Rain King]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

Originally posted by ProestUnicorn:

Well, act 3 is just unfinished. They are alredy working on it, we will see what comes out of it.

They need to telegraph the quests versus the ‘flavour’.

Ie – aesthetically, it’s not an uninteresting place. So if you knew what was just ‘flavour’, you could just tour the place, check out the scenery.

But as-is, you don’t know who has a quest and who doesn’t, so you’re clicking all these nobodies…it goes nowhere.

It’s crazy. It’s actually hilarious. They’ve packed it with all these dead-ends.

I wouldn’t want them adding more content to it. It’s already a labyrinth and there’s only so much city I personally want to see. They need to focus on the quality of the content that’s there, make it better, and telegraph it with markers or something so you know what you’re getting yourself into.

There’s probably only a handful of quests, but it’s so massively empty that you waste hours fruitlessly clicking, only to turn the thing off.

There is this take. Then there is the no-hand holding take. For instance, Elden Ring's quests are anything but obvious. You have to do some real work to find them much see them through. Many people love this. Many people want more guidance.

There are different games for different people. I would humbly suggest, however, not trying to change one type of game into another.

[Aristocles]

Act 3 needed more work.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originally posted by Underprivileged White Male:

Originally posted by Ronin Gamer:

Played the old games prior to 3 coming out, not a fan of them mechanics and rules wise, exploring was kind of basic too. Given the time in released this makes sense to an extent. Plenty of areas sure, but considering I didn't really enjoy playing them I didn't care to see every spot.
BG3 act 3, minus it's technically hiccups, didn't bother me in the slightest, and I quite enjoyed it, which is helped by a rules and mechanics set up that is more what I like to play.
If you didn't enjoy it, well sucks to be you, but that doesn't mean it was garbage. It just means it wasn't for you. Too many people can't seem to understand the difference between personal preference and that preference being a fact that somehow every single person MUST agree with because I came to that conclusion....

I agree with you. Your personal preference is that it isn't terrible. :P

Yep, and I don't push that preference on anyone else, I'm sick of other people making threads though that keep talking like they are speaking for everyone who's ever played a video game. **** gets tiring, just like a number of things on this forum.

Used to remember there were fun discussion here during the EA, but after the first time this forum went to a hell hole, things never recovered and it's a shame.