8 Fighter/4 Rogue - or 11 Fighter/1 Rogue?

[Lampros]

I respc-ed Lae'zel to give her 1 Rogue to avoid being forced to put up with Astarion at all times. But I am wondering whether I should stop at that 1 level Rogue dip or try to get to level 4 Rogue to save the extra Feat plus obtain all the earlier level Rogue goodies. The only minus - albeit a huge one - is the loss of 3rd attack.

Is this trade-off worth it?

[Seven of Nine]

Originally posted by No_Title:

Originally posted by Lampros:

I want Lae'zel to use the Gith legendary sword though; so I will likely keep her Strength. But I think I can maintain her Dexterity to be sufficiently high, if I give her the gloves that boost Dexterity (of course, a lot of folks competing for those gloves).

But you do raise an issue I forgot about: sneak attacks do not activate with 2H Strength weapons, right? Hmm, still the extra movement and Thief goodies are very tempting...

Sneak attack works with about 3 2h weapons.
Phalar Aluve (+1)
Larethians Wrath (+1)
Dancing Breeze (+2)

Trust me, full fighter is better than the "goodies" rogue has.

Not necessarily. I had rogues kitted out so well that they put fighters to shame :P

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Reasoning it because of Astarion makes no sense like that.

I don't like Astarion, and I don't want to group with him. So I have to find someone who can disarm traps and pick locks.

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

I think you can even kinda go 6 / 6 and make a dexterity based fighter for that matter, dual-wielding those two lovely crit daggers, maxing potential from both characters, and have good sneak attack, pick champion, and anything that allows you to crit below a nat 20. The biggest question is who will providy the sneak attack conditions.
Possibly works the best with Thief, Thief overall is the most rounded rogue subclass, Assassin isn't bad but its too heavily combat oriented for my own personal taste.

I want Lae'zel to use the Gith legendary sword though; so I will likely keep her Strength. But I think I can maintain her Dexterity to be sufficiently high, if I give her the gloves that boost Dexterity (of course, a lot of folks competing for those gloves).

But you do raise an issue I forgot about: sneak attacks do not activate with 2H Strength weapons, right? Hmm, still the extra movement and Thief goodies are very tempting...

I think what's weird about the question is that you can respec anyone to be anything. So pick a character you like and respec them to be the rogue if you find that you need a rogue.

[VoiD]

I've disarmed and unlocked everything with Shadow Heart's standard cleric build and guidance.

Then I took Minthara and made her a gloomstalker/assassin (because I didn't want to have 2 assassins) and while she can sneak, disarm and steal easier, it never felt like it was "necessary" for anything.

[Dank Sidious]

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

Originally posted by Dank Sidious:

What is the point in going 6 rogue instead of 5?

Fighter 7 = + 1 superiority die and 2 maneuvers.
Rogue 5 = Sneak Die + Uncanny dodge
Rogue 6 = 2 Skill proficiencies.

So you are giving up a superiority die and 2 maneuvers for two skill proficiencies?

True! Thought Evasion was at 6. That's my bad.

However the build I described goes for Champion - so no manoeuvres, and no superiority die.
Also it goes for maximum sneak attack damage while also investing heavily into fighter, and trying to get as many feats as possible.
Savage Strikes, Dual Wielder, + to Dex.

It's just a... an unusual fighter / rogue build that *might* work as a crit fisher build.

A rule of thumb for rogues. Unless it's about feats. all the interesting break points are at odd levels :)

Even for champion you would still want to got Fighter 7/Rogue 5.

Fighter gets subclass ability at lvl 7 and Rogue gets nothing impressive for 6.

A better consideration would be if you want to go Fighter 5 and Rogue 7, but then you would be swapping the fighter lvl 6 feat for rogue lvl 7 Sneak Die + Evasion.

Point is Fighter gets good stuff for both LVl 6 and 7.
Rogue only gets good stuff on 5 or 7. 6/6 Fighter/Rogue doesn't really make sense for any version of the multiclass.

I did see suggestion for going with rogue 5 Fighter 6 and warlock 1 for the fear on crit which is synergistic with your idea.

[ToucanSafari]

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

It's not. There are some very amazing items to be dual wielded: Dagger of the Undermountain King, Bllodthirst. Coupled with champion, you only need to roll a 17 to score a critical but there are a few more options. Couple that with Sarevok's Helm, which you can use a fighter, and the Dead Shot. These stack. You will get 2 main hand attacks as Fighter / Rogue if reasonably dividing those points, 2 off-hand attacks (if 2nd BA is not used on something else) and a 3d6 Sneak attack - alternatively if you go rogue 8 / champion 4 you'll get 4d6 sneak attack, which on a crit is 6d6-8d6. Two attacks from each hand will easily do as much damage as most Great Weapons do.
Use the Dual Wielder Feat, combined with Dual Wielding bracers from Act 2 Last light Inn.

Yes I know that this is a crit fishing build and heavily relies on fishing for crit. But you do get a crit on Nat 15 or above.
You will also get reasonable AC.

You can get comparable crit rates using 2h weapons with way more damage output due to the existence of cloud giant elixirs. That + the illithid power to make bonus actions swappable to main actions means 2h is king. GWM on every attack > crit fishing. I'm sorry. It's garbage.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by No_Title:

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

It's not. There are some very amazing items to be dual wielded: Dagger of the Undermountain King, Bllodthirst. Coupled with champion, you only need to roll a 17 to score a critical but there are a few more options. Couple that with Sarevok's Helm, which you can use a fighter, and the Dead Shot. These stack. You will get 2 main hand attacks as Fighter / Rogue if reasonably dividing those points, 2 off-hand attacks (if 2nd BA is not used on something else) and a 3d6 Sneak attack - alternatively if you go rogue 8 / champion 4 you'll get 4d6 sneak attack, which on a crit is 6d6-8d6. Two attacks from each hand will easily do as much damage as most Great Weapons do.
Use the Dual Wielder Feat, combined with Dual Wielding bracers from Act 2 Last light Inn.

Yes I know that this is a crit fishing build and heavily relies on fishing for crit. But you do get a crit on Nat 15 or above.
You will also get reasonable AC.

You can get comparable crit rates using 2h weapons with way more damage output due to the existence of cloud giant elixirs. That + the illithid power to make bonus actions swappable to main actions means 2h is king. GWM on every attack > crit fishing. I'm sorry. It's garbage.

Also, the competing feat, GWM also allows you to use your bonus action to deal full (~double) damage anyway, there is no way to make dual wielding useful as long as it costs a bonus action.

Hell, you can be a godlike fighter doing 3 attacks per action, using a haste pot for 2 actions+1 attack from the bonus action and if you had dual weapons, you'd just be hitting for almost half damage with every attack and using a single (2 if thief, but then you couldn't get lvl 11 fighter for tripple attacks) bonus offhand attack which hits for less than a regular 2h bonus attack anyway.

Hell, even if you don't get to trigger the bonus attack from GWM, for some reason, you can still use your bonus action to help you deal more damage without dual weapons by using poisons, shoving, hexing, marking, etc...

It's quite pointless.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Lampros:

I respc-ed Lae'zel to give her 1 Rogue to avoid being forced to put up with Astarion at all times. But I am wondering whether I should stop at that 1 level Rogue dip or try to get to level 4 Rogue to save the extra Feat plus obtain all the earlier level Rogue goodies. The only minus - albeit a huge one - is the loss of 3rd attack.

Is this trade-off worth it?

There is also the option to respec Shadowheart to have rogue levels, fits her lore/character too, I think.

Other than that, if you want to use 2-handers, one level of rogue. If you aren't dead-set on 2-handers, sword-and-board arcane trickster 4 (for the shield spell) / battle master 8 could be good. 4 feats, really high AC, rogue utility, all in one angry Gith package.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Originally posted by Lampros:

I respc-ed Lae'zel to give her 1 Rogue to avoid being forced to put up with Astarion at all times. But I am wondering whether I should stop at that 1 level Rogue dip or try to get to level 4 Rogue to save the extra Feat plus obtain all the earlier level Rogue goodies. The only minus - albeit a huge one - is the loss of 3rd attack.

Is this trade-off worth it?

Ehh tbh nothing is better than 11 fighter anyway, due to how badly Larian understands basic mechanics.

Also TBH rogues kinda suck in BG3 in general outside of some flavor builds with 3/4 Thief.

Best lockpick TBH is a 2 hander with Great Weapon Master and your ctrl + MB1

Kinda like 90% of the time the best trap disarm kit is jumping.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

There is also the option to respec Shadowheart to have rogue levels, fits her lore/character too, I think.

Other than that, if you want to use 2-handers, one level of rogue. If you aren't dead-set on 2-handers, sword-and-board arcane trickster 4 (for the shield spell) / battle master 8 could be good. 4 feats, really high AC, rogue utility, all in one angry Gith package.

Yes, I did think about making Shadowheart Rogue, too, but she's spread thin already by the need to invest in both Wisdom and Strength, so I decided not to. I guess I can use Phalar Aluve the entire game and forget Strength weapons though - if I switch from Strength to Dexterity?

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

There is also the option to respec Shadowheart to have rogue levels, fits her lore/character too, I think.

Other than that, if you want to use 2-handers, one level of rogue. If you aren't dead-set on 2-handers, sword-and-board arcane trickster 4 (for the shield spell) / battle master 8 could be good. 4 feats, really high AC, rogue utility, all in one angry Gith package.

Yes, I did think about making Shadowheart Rogue, too, but she's spread thin already by the need to invest in both Wisdom and Strength, so I decided not to. I guess I can use Phalar Aluve the entire game and forget Strength weapons though - if I switch from Strength to Dexterity?

I have her using bows (you could use dual crossbows, honestly, I just don't like it). I usually spread her stats to something like 16 DEX 14 CON 16 WIS, use medium / light armor, finesse weapon & bow.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Yes, I did think about making Shadowheart Rogue, too, but she's spread thin already by the need to invest in both Wisdom and Strength, so I decided not to. I guess I can use Phalar Aluve the entire game and forget Strength weapons though - if I switch from Strength to Dexterity?

I have her using bows (you could use dual crossbows, honestly, I just don't like it). I usually spread her stats to something like 16 DEX 14 CON 16 WIS, use medium / light armor, finesse weapon & bow.

I will try that then. What melee weapon are you using on her? And did you go Rogue 1st level or Cleric 1st level?

[Momos]

I really dont understand all of these comments. 3 or 4 levels in Thief rogue are nuts. If you run with Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master you will get a bonus action attack very frequently and get your 3rd extra attack from the Thieves extra bonus action + you get all the rogue goodies. I play Karlach as a 5 Barbarian 4 battlemaster fighter and 3 thief rogue and its beatiful. Even without Polearm Master you pretty much always get a bonus action attack from GWM if you play it right.

[Seven of Nine]

Originally posted by No_Title:

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

It's not. There are some very amazing items to be dual wielded: Dagger of the Undermountain King, Bllodthirst. Coupled with champion, you only need to roll a 17 to score a critical but there are a few more options. Couple that with Sarevok's Helm, which you can use a fighter, and the Dead Shot. These stack. You will get 2 main hand attacks as Fighter / Rogue if reasonably dividing those points, 2 off-hand attacks (if 2nd BA is not used on something else) and a 3d6 Sneak attack - alternatively if you go rogue 8 / champion 4 you'll get 4d6 sneak attack, which on a crit is 6d6-8d6. Two attacks from each hand will easily do as much damage as most Great Weapons do.
Use the Dual Wielder Feat, combined with Dual Wielding bracers from Act 2 Last light Inn.

Yes I know that this is a crit fishing build and heavily relies on fishing for crit. But you do get a crit on Nat 15 or above.
You will also get reasonable AC.

You can get comparable crit rates using 2h weapons with way more damage output due to the existence of cloud giant elixirs. That + the illithid power to make bonus actions swappable to main actions means 2h is king. GWM on every attack > crit fishing. I'm sorry. It's garbage.

You underestimate how crit scales :) with savage attacks and say a very luck roll of 4 crits in a row:
You get 4 attacks with a short sword each doing a potential 3d6 damage. Thats a total of 12d6 just from weapon attacks only.
Your sneak attack will do 7d6.
Thats already a respectable 19d6.
Unsure if Rapiers can apply sneak attack.
+20 from Dex bonus.
You can also hasten your rogue/fighter hybrid for an extra 4d6 damage.
Add stuff like caustic ring - 4 attacks + sneak attack damage total of +10 damage, 14 if hasted.
19d6+14+20.
All while maintaining high AC as well.
Obviously this an only crit damage.
12d6+20+10(+10+4) a turn, bracketed is on crit modifier.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

I have her using bows (you could use dual crossbows, honestly, I just don't like it). I usually spread her stats to something like 16 DEX 14 CON 16 WIS, use medium / light armor, finesse weapon & bow.

I will try that then. What melee weapon are you using on her? And did you go Rogue 1st level or Cleric 1st level?

I went Rogue first to get more and better skills, main reason I went Rogue in the first place. You also get proficiency in all finesse weapons too this way from the start. I like taking 2 levels of Rogue for Cunning action, it's too good to pass up. After that Cleric. If you want 4 levels of Rogue, I recommend Arcane trickster to get access to more spells options (like Shield) and boost to your spell progression. Thief will give you more damage, if that is what you want.

On weapons, I like dual shortswords (there are cool ones that give advantage on Perception & Stealth) and Darkfire bow to have Haste available.

[Woldy]

7 fighter champion 5 rogue thief.

Dual wield.

profit.