Paladin/Warlock multi-class that doesn't use the extra Warlock attack bug?

[Lampros]

Is there a potent one? I don't want to use the extra attack from the Warlock extra attack stacking with martial class extra attacks stacking seems like a bug and likely will be patched at some point.

Adding a third class in there is also welcome, as I only need Warlock for level 2 Invocations.

[Elizabeth]

I did 10 Lock/2 Pal for my first character. Not gonna compete with the top-tier multiclasses, but you get the level 5 slots for beefy smites, and if you use the tadpole power to force crits it can dump some heavy impacts, while having both Eldritch Blast boosting invocations for a solid ranged option and a couple extras for utility.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Elizabeth:

I did 10 Lock/2 Pal for my first character. Not gonna compete with the top-tier multiclasses, but you get the level 5 slots for beefy smites, and if you use the tadpole power to force crits it can dump some heavy impacts, while having both Eldritch Blast boosting invocations for a solid ranged option and a couple extras for utility.

Interesting. Were you primarily ranged or melee?

[Gloomseeker]

Do you want to go for Pact of the Blade and do you want to respec?

Because most would say you can play until you get to level 5 and then you respec and transfer all the points you had invested in strength into charisma to take advantage of Pact of the Blade.

Personally I don't like the idea and if you don't want to respec then you probably want to start with points in charisma and you will need to get to Warlock level 3 asap in order to get some decent attacks with your weapon of choice and then Warlock 5 in order to get the extra attack.

By that logic you will have to wait until level 6 to get your first Paladin level and level 7 to finally unlock divine smite (unless you've picked a Zariel Tiefling who get a smite power when levelling up).

As for Paladin I'd say it's either 2 levels for smite or 6 for auras (7 for Oath of the Ancients) which doesn't leave too many levels to spare (presumably not more than 5). Getting more spell slots for smite or some fighter levels for another weapon style and action surge (or possibly Champion 3 for critical hits). Alternatively Sword Bard levels will allow flourishes in combat and if you're going to do a lot of spellcasting you may find some use for a single Storm Sorcerer level (which can unlock very useful spells like shield and magic missile and the ability to fly over short distances after casting a spell).

By the way if you start as Paladin you will have the heavy armour proficiency and you could dump dexterity to 8 and wear a heavy armour without a penalty to AC. Initiative will suffer that's true but picking the Alert feat or some items that boost initiative can make up for that and in the meantime it allows to focus on charisma and constitution.

EDIT: Btw smite only works in melee. Paladins don't get many options for ranged combat which is why Warlock is an interesting combination since eldritch blast takes care of that and uses charisma so dexterity is not so much of a necessity.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

Do you want to go for Pact of the Blade and do you want to respec?

Because most would say you can play until you get to level 5 and then you respec and transfer all the points you had invested in strength into charisma to take advantage of Pact of the Blade.

Personally I don't like the idea and if you don't want to respec then you probably want to start with points in charisma and you will need to get to Warlock level 3 asap in order to get some decent attacks with your weapon of choice and then Warlock 5 in order to get the extra attack.

By that logic you will have to wait until level 6 to get your first Paladin level and level 7 to finally unlock divine smite (unless you've picked a Zariel Tiefling who get a smite power when levelling up).

As for Paladin I'd say it's either 2 levels for smite or 6 for auras (7 for Oath of the Ancients) which doesn't leave too many levels to spare (presumably not more than 5). Getting more spell slots for smite or some fighter levels for another weapon style and action surge (or possibly Champion 3 for critical hits). Alternatively Sword Bard levels will allow flourishes in combat and if you're going to do a lot of spellcasting you may find some use for a single Storm Sorcerer level (which can unlock very useful spells like shield and magic missile and the ability to fly over short distances after casting a spell).

By the way if you start as Paladin you will have the heavy armour proficiency and you could dump dexterity to 8 and wear a heavy armour without a penalty to AC. Initiative will suffer that's true but picking the Alert feat or some items that boost initiative can make up for that and in the meantime it allows to focus on charisma and constitution.

EDIT: Btw smite only works in melee. Paladins don't get many options for ranged combat which is why Warlock is an interesting combination since eldritch blast takes care of that and uses charisma so dexterity is not so much of a necessity.

No respec. I have only two rules for this run. First, I only respec once when I get a character (which means no respec at all for MC); second, each character retains his original class, even if he multi-classes and in fact focus on another class (applicable to Companions). For role-play integrity, I thought that was the best.

So I am stuck with the level 5 Paladin as MC. Frankly, I don't think I'd want to play a Pact Warlock on my MC either (though I am fine with the possibility for Wyll), as I want him to be a conventional Strength "Warrior"-type - rather than dumping Strength altogether per typical Pact Warlocks. Again, role-play constraints.

So minimally 5 Paladin, and at least 2 Warlock are the givens. 6 Paladin probably at least for the Aura, I guess. That leaves 4 slots. Are they best fulfilled by going all Warlock from thereon? Or would 4 Bard or 4 Sorcerer pay off more? I guess 4 Warlock and 2 Bard or 2 Sorcerer can also work?

[Gloomseeker]

Depends if you want more feats.

Frankly I wouldn't get Warlock levels just for the blast. It doesn't seem to fit thematically (Faey Warlocks and Oath of the Ancient Paladins seem to have things in common but the other options are harder to justify).

Have you considered throwing for a high strength warrior? No need for dexterity and you could even go for Eldritch Knight 4 for a feat and weapon bond (iirc level 6 fighters get another feat as well). You don't really need to invest in intelligence all that much (you can pick arcane spells that don't rely on intelligence like shield and magic missile). Weapon bond works pretty well with weapons that have the throwing tag (like spears). Polearm mastery could complement the build (feat wise correct me if I'm wrong but Tavern Brawler doesn't seem to match the concept).

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

Have you considered throwing for a high strength warrior? No need for dexterity and you could even go for Eldritch Knight 4 for a feat and weapon bond (iirc level 6 fighters get another feat as well). You don't really need to invest in intelligence all that much (you can pick arcane spells that don't rely on intelligence like shield and magic missile). Weapon bond works pretty well with weapons that have the throwing tag (like spears). Polearm mastery could complement the build (feat wise correct me if I'm wrong but Tavern Brawler doesn't seem to match the concept).

You mean with Paladin? Is mixing Paladin and a non-caster optimal, given you want more spell slots for Smites?

I am currently experimenting Lae'zel with Tavern Brawler thrower build. It seems consistent, but not spectacular.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Rex:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is there a potent one? I don't want to use the extra attack from the Warlock extra attack stacking with martial class extra attacks stacking seems like a bug and likely will be patched at some point.

Adding a third class in there is also welcome, as I only need Warlock for level 2 Invocations.

The "third" attack from the Warlock special IS "a bug" as it is not intended in normal 5e.
Larian has yet to patch it out, and hopefully they won't :3

So what's your suggestion for an alternative Paladin/Warlock build? ;)

[Calculus]

Well... i'm thinking about paladin/warlock/war cleric 5/5/2
you get main attack 2 from paladin, then bonus attack from war cleric with ability to add +10 to attack roll in case of a miss. Pact of the blade would allow you to mostly ignore str and focus on charisma and wisdom, but then you will get the 3rd attack bug ending with 4 attacks per turn... even without a bug it might be an usable build.

[Gloomseeker]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

Have you considered throwing for a high strength warrior? No need for dexterity and you could even go for Eldritch Knight 4 for a feat and weapon bond (iirc level 6 fighters get another feat as well). You don't really need to invest in intelligence all that much (you can pick arcane spells that don't rely on intelligence like shield and magic missile). Weapon bond works pretty well with weapons that have the throwing tag (like spears). Polearm mastery could complement the build (feat wise correct me if I'm wrong but Tavern Brawler doesn't seem to match the concept).

You mean with Paladin? Is mixing Paladin and a non-caster optimal, given you want more spell slots for Smites?

I am currently experimenting Lae'zel with Tavern Brawler thrower build. It seems consistent, but not spectacular.

The Eldritch Knight is a caster albeit a limited one but then Warlocks don't get that many spells (but they get them back on short rests).

Throwing builds usually rely on returning weapons and certain items that boost damage. If you don't mind Tavern Brawler sounding a bit uncouth for a paladin it's definitely a solid choice for a character that will throw things around (plus you do get a point to spend on strength).

The problem with Paladins is that they need many stats and without resorting to tricks it's hard to pull that off (especially considering you may not want to make a deal with the hag). At the very least you need strength, constitution and charisma. Plus paladins don't get many options for ranged combat and throwing can fill in that void. Carrying throwing weapons or using a returning one may be more straightforward.

If you want more spellcasting then Lore Bard could be a great option. Plenty of skills and magical secrets at level 6. These classes do work well together.

[Seven of Nine]

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

Do you want to go for Pact of the Blade and do you want to respec?

Because most would say you can play until you get to level 5 and then you respec and transfer all the points you had invested in strength into charisma to take advantage of Pact of the Blade.

Personally I don't like the idea and if you don't want to respec then you probably want to start with points in charisma and you will need to get to Warlock level 3 asap in order to get some decent attacks with your weapon of choice and then Warlock 5 in order to get the extra attack.

By that logic you will have to wait until level 6 to get your first Paladin level and level 7 to finally unlock divine smite (unless you've picked a Zariel Tiefling who get a smite power when levelling up).

As for Paladin I'd say it's either 2 levels for smite or 6 for auras (7 for Oath of the Ancients) which doesn't leave too many levels to spare (presumably not more than 5). Getting more spell slots for smite or some fighter levels for another weapon style and action surge (or possibly Champion 3 for critical hits). Alternatively Sword Bard levels will allow flourishes in combat and if you're going to do a lot of spellcasting you may find some use for a single Storm Sorcerer level (which can unlock very useful spells like shield and magic missile and the ability to fly over short distances after casting a spell).

By the way if you start as Paladin you will have the heavy armour proficiency and you could dump dexterity to 8 and wear a heavy armour without a penalty to AC. Initiative will suffer that's true but picking the Alert feat or some items that boost initiative can make up for that and in the meantime it allows to focus on charisma and constitution.

EDIT: Btw smite only works in melee. Paladins don't get many options for ranged combat which is why Warlock is an interesting combination since eldritch blast takes care of that and uses charisma so dexterity is not so much of a necessity.

MAD. You don't want to dump Dexterity too much, since it affects your initiative, and also some of your save rolls, in fact the most common save roll I think is DEX.
Strength is amazing for any melee build in this game - for jumping distance... and possibly its better than wasting a spell slot on "Misty Step".
Stat boosting items... I think the one that boosts Dex is a pair of gloves, but there are gloves that also increase your Strength, and those are super-late game items.
For Charisma we have the hat, I think from Sorcerous Sundries.

Level 2 Warlock only for invocations... not all of those are good for a paladin/ warlock multiclass. The only good ones are Devil's Sight and One With Shadows - Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast won't work well with low charisma. You should go at least 3 to narrow down your Ability Dependency to Charisma, and Con. Regarding abilities I'd go 17 Cha, 14 Con, 14 Strength - Rest at 10, alternatively you can go for Int 8, Strength 15 or Dex 12.
Warlock 3 - Paladin 6 - Fighter 3 (Champion). Pact of Blade + Whatever (I personally think Devotion will work excellent here), and Champion for crit fishing. For feat, you will only have one which I'd possibly put into Savage Attacker. With this build which I'M proposing, you can go Agonizing Blast / Repelling Blast but for me being melee and having repelling blast are not really synergistic - I want to get close to my enemy. For Warlock, pick Fiend for Temporary HP.
Items: try to get as many items as possibly for crit fishing.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

The Eldritch Knight is a caster albeit a limited one but then Warlocks don't get that many spells (but they get them back on short rests).

Throwing builds usually rely on returning weapons and certain items that boost damage. If you don't mind Tavern Brawler sounding a bit uncouth for a paladin it's definitely a solid choice for a character that will throw things around (plus you do get a point to spend on strength).

The problem with Paladins is that they need many stats and without resorting to tricks it's hard to pull that off (especially considering you may not want to make a deal with the hag). At the very least you need strength, constitution and charisma. Plus paladins don't get many options for ranged combat and throwing can fill in that void. Carrying throwing weapons or using a returning one may be more straightforward.

If you want more spellcasting then Lore Bard could be a great option. Plenty of skills and magical secrets at level 6. These classes do work well together.

Originally posted by Seven of Nine:

MAD. You don't want to dump Dexterity too much, since it affects your initiative, and also some of your save rolls, in fact the most common save roll I think is DEX.
Strength is amazing for any melee build in this game - for jumping distance... and possibly its better than wasting a spell slot on "Misty Step".
Stat boosting items... I think the one that boosts Dex is a pair of gloves, but there are gloves that also increase your Strength, and those are super-late game items.
For Charisma we have the hat, I think from Sorcerous Sundries.

Level 2 Warlock only for invocations... not all of those are good for a paladin/ warlock multiclass. The only good ones are Devil's Sight and One With Shadows - Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast won't work well with low charisma. You should go at least 3 to narrow down your Ability Dependency to Charisma, and Con. Regarding abilities I'd go 17 Cha, 14 Con, 14 Strength - Rest at 10, alternatively you can go for Int 8, Strength 15 or Dex 12.
Warlock 3 - Paladin 6 - Fighter 3 (Champion). Pact of Blade + Whatever (I personally think Devotion will work excellent here), and Champion for crit fishing. For feat, you will only have one which I'd possibly put into Savage Attacker. With this build which I'M proposing, you can go Agonizing Blast / Repelling Blast but for me being melee and having repelling blast are not really synergistic - I want to get close to my enemy. For Warlock, pick Fiend for Temporary HP.
Items: try to get as many items as possibly for crit fishing.

Okay, guys; I just tested Eldritch Blast with 16 Charisma at level 5 Paladin and 1 Warlock, and it was pretty horrifically bad. So I think I am going to bend my principles and go at least Paladin 5 and 3 Pact of the Blade - and possibly further levels in Warlock.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Calculus:

Well... i'm thinking about paladin/warlock/war cleric 5/5/2
you get main attack 2 from paladin, then bonus attack from war cleric with ability to add +10 to attack roll in case of a miss. Pact of the blade would allow you to mostly ignore str and focus on charisma and wisdom, but then you will get the 3rd attack bug ending with 4 attacks per turn... even without a bug it might be an usable build.

Yeah; it might be useful even without the 3rd attack bug. So I may go 5 Paladin and 5 Warlock after all. Nothing like actually testing (which I just did) to realize sometimes role-play has to give way to performance efficiency! ;)

[UnholyDentist]

Originally posted by Gloomseeker:

Originally posted by Lampros:

You mean with Paladin? Is mixing Paladin and a non-caster optimal, given you want more spell slots for Smites?

I am currently experimenting Lae'zel with Tavern Brawler thrower build. It seems consistent, but not spectacular.

The Eldritch Knight is a caster albeit a limited one but then Warlocks don't get that many spells (but they get them back on short rests).

Throwing builds usually rely on returning weapons and certain items that boost damage. If you don't mind Tavern Brawler sounding a bit uncouth for a paladin it's definitely a solid choice for a character that will throw things around (plus you do get a point to spend on strength).

The problem with Paladins is that they need many stats and without resorting to tricks it's hard to pull that off (especially considering you may not want to make a deal with the hag). At the very least you need strength, constitution and charisma. Plus paladins don't get many options for ranged combat and throwing can fill in that void. Carrying throwing weapons or using a returning one may be more straightforward.

If you want more spellcasting then Lore Bard could be a great option. Plenty of skills and magical secrets at level 6. These classes do work well together.

Pala needs strength gloves, if multiclassed with lock, it only becomes viable at level 7, even then it will need some attack roll boost, especially with great weapon feat. I think, one is better off with other class to start with until mid/high level then respec to pala/x.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by UnholyDentist:

Pala needs strength gloves, if multiclassed with lock, it only becomes viable at level 7, even then it will need some attack roll boost, especially with great weapon feat. I think, one is better off with other class to start with until mid/high level then respec to pala/x.

Why does Paladin need Strength gloves? Aren't they Act 3 items anyways? Also, Strength elixirs are frankly rather plentiful.

[Calculus]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by UnholyDentist:

Pala needs strength gloves, if multiclassed with lock, it only becomes viable at level 7, even then it will need some attack roll boost, especially with great weapon feat. I think, one is better off with other class to start with until mid/high level then respec to pala/x.

Why does Paladin need Strength gloves? Aren't they Act 3 items anyways? Also, Strength elixirs are frankly rather plentiful.

Character multiclassed into paladin, then you have additional dumb stat.
But yes, at this point its easy to farm str pots