How do clerics "work", lore-wise?

[Orion Invictus]

Yes, I know I could look this up, but I thought people would appreciate a discussion about the lore. If you don't, just move on.

A cleric channels the power of their chosen deity, right? And if said deity dies or deems the cleric unworthy or whatever, the cleric loses their powers. So how can clerics "struggle" to cast spells (for example, in Act 2, Isobel seems to be exerting herself when she's beefing up the shield around the Last Light Inn) and have limited castings? Doesn't the actual power come from their deity?

[BeautifulFlowerField]

I would assume that controlling or commanding arcane/divine energy is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal, not every cleric is granted the absolute maximum power of their deity off the rip that doesn't make any sense so what's confusing

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by BeautifulFlowerField:

I would assume that controlling or commanding arcane/divine energy is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal, not every cleric is granted the absolute maximum power of their deity off the rip that doesn't make any sense so what's confusing

That's the thing: they're not controlling or commanding anything, the deity is. The cleric is just going "Hey, could you lend me your power to do this?" and then the deity can choose to help or not.

[Dragon Master]

Clerics can struggle the same way wizards can thanks to the Vancian magic system that D&D uses.

The way a vancian magic system works is is that there is only so much your body can take when you cast spells, it takes a toll on you, which is why you have limited spell slots rather than mana because there is only so much magic you are capable of casting in a day.

I like to think she is struggling because although the power isn't hers she is still the channel that the magic is flowing through and there is only so much her body can take.

[BeautifulFlowerField]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by BeautifulFlowerField:

I would assume that controlling or commanding arcane/divine energy is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal, not every cleric is granted the absolute maximum power of their deity off the rip that doesn't make any sense so what's confusing

That's the thing: they're not controlling or commanding anything, the deity is. The cleric is just going "Hey, could you lend me your power to do this?" and then the deity can choose to help or not.

Right, which is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal. again what isn't to understand. basically your question is why don't gods make every cleric invincible. ok great insight

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by BeautifulFlowerField:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

That's the thing: they're not controlling or commanding anything, the deity is. The cleric is just going "Hey, could you lend me your power to do this?" and then the deity can choose to help or not.

Right, which is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal. again what isn't to understand. basically your question is why don't gods make every cleric invincible. ok great insight

No, my question is what I wrote. And how is prayer taxing on the mind and body?

[Husker_85]

The channeling of the divine energy is passive on the part of the deity. They're not as omniscient as many of them would lead you to believe and they have to automate a lot of how their divine power is distributed. So clerics pray to access this power, and the 'harder' they pray, the more power they can wield. As clerics 'level up', their deity starts to take more direct notice of them and starts to consciously divert more energy to them so that they can act on behalf of the deity.

There are a lot of restrictions on how much deities can interact with the mortal realm, so they depend on mortals to act in their stead. But mortals are fickle and untrustworthy, so the deities have to be careful about who they invest their power in; watching and chronicling the actions of their followers to see whom among them are most worthy to wield their power

[BeautifulFlowerField]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by BeautifulFlowerField:

Right, which is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal. again what isn't to understand. basically your question is why don't gods make every cleric invincible. ok great insight

No, my question is what I wrote. And how is prayer taxing on the mind and body?

i think channeling a giant magical barrier is different than "praying". again being granted power by a deity doesn't necessarily make it easy for a mortal body to channel and wield such power ad infinitum. your question has been answered in full many times now.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Isaac_Clark:

The channeling of the divine energy is passive on the part of the deity. They're not as omniscient as many of them would lead you to believe and they have to automate a lot of how their divine power is distributed. So clerics pray to access this power, and the 'harder' they pray, the more power they can wield. As clerics 'level up', their deity starts to take more direct notice of them and starts to consciously divert more energy to them so that they can act on behalf of the deity.

There are a lot of restrictions on how much deities can interact with the mortal realm, so they depend on mortals to act in their stead. But mortals are fickle and untrustworthy, so the deities have to be careful about who they invest their power in; watching and chronicling the actions of their followers to see whom among them are most worthy to wield their power

That makes sense. Thanks.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by BeautifulFlowerField:

Right, which is taxing on the mind and body of a mortal. again what isn't to understand. basically your question is why don't gods make every cleric invincible. ok great insight

No, my question is what I wrote. And how is prayer taxing on the mind and body?

The prayer isn't the taxing bit, it's the amount of magic being channeled through the body that is.

That is how the vancian magic system works and why spellcasters have spell slots instead of mana. Their bodies can only ever handle so much.

[SoloQ]

I think Isobel's issue is that she was dead and brought back to life. They don't mention any loss of power from that situation, but it more than likely would have an impact on your ability to channel or commune with your deity. You were essentially cut off from their power for a time. It could possibly take time for the body and mind to reestablish a solid connection. And that's why she struggles at times to keep it going.

Unless it was a deity of death or something like that. Then death could potentially make you more powerful.

[zero]

every day the god comes down and hands the cleric a box of bullets.

some guns have worse kickback then others.

just because the bullets came from god doesn't mean the cleric doesn't need to put in some of the effort.

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by SoloQ:

I think Isobel's issue is that she was dead and brought back to life. They don't mention any loss of power from that situation, but it more than likely would have an impact on your ability to channel or commune with your deity. You were essentially cut off from their power for a time. It could possibly take time for the body and mind to reestablish a solid connection. And that's why she struggles at times to keep it going.

Unless it was a deity of death or something like that. Then death could potentially make you more powerful.

She's been back for 100 years though and has been in the Shadowlands that long.

There's a lot of factors. She's keeping the last light inn a safe refuge and who knows how long she's been doing that, she's been fighting the shadowcurse and she is channeling a lot of magic through her body on a daily basis.

[Mizu]

Think of the deity as a large body of water and the cleric as a pipe that takes water out of the lake. The size of the pipe is going to place a limit on how much and how quickly water can be removed from the lake. The more powerful a cleric becomes the bigger a pipe they are and the more water they can move at speed.

[Ranpo]

Clerics call upon the power of their god, be it Illmater, Selune, Shar etc but the god's portfolio matter as well, I reckon a cleric of Bane wouldn't be good at healing vs a cleric of Selune.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Mizu:

Think of the deity as a large body of water and the cleric as a pipe that takes water out of the lake. The size of the pipe is going to place a limit on how much and how quickly water can be removed from the lake. The more powerful a cleric becomes the bigger a pipe they are and the more water they can move at speed.

Love the analogy, so I'm marking this as an answer.